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From Warseer, from, IMO, the most reliable source there is.

75hastings wrote:Well you'll be seeing these guys sooner than a lot of people think

So I thought I'd give you a heads up on what to expect and when to expect them.

plastic chariot/warshrine
plastic forsaken
plastic Dragon Ogres
a Large plastic kit (that I'll leave as a surprise )
Finecrap Characters


At the moment WoC are due toward Q4 2012 (after VC, Empire and some random WFB models & waves).

This is my final rumour post as I'm hanging up my rumouring gloves/boots/other equipment. So please enjoy discussing WoC and the above kits.

All sounds pretty cool to me.

Sad to see Mr. Hastings moving on from his rumour ninja role.

Whilst I'm here, I'll give him a cheap plug for his hobby sell off sale

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324362 (members only to read that IIRC). Which is 25% off RRP and free posting in the UK. I've bought off him before and can, will and do recommend him without reservation. He's also on Dakka : http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/user/profile/47343.page and should respond to Pms etc etc.


[/cheap plug]

Plastic Dragon ogres people have been clamouring for since.. well.... the RoC books I guess.

Are there even any Forsaken models currently ? Must confess that my WFb knowwots ain't all that.

I do recall some of the WoC special characters being cool ideas however, hope the models, medium/material aside, are rockin'.

Look interesting, I might have to start a WOC army

Busy year. So far we have 3 codexes, 3 army books, a new 40k edition plus all the random waves rumoured.

i wonder if they will be going back to including daemons in the book or still have them separate. would be nice to be able to atleast include a few of them like in the good old days.
my plaguebearers need a dusting

Forsakens have their new models just their last release, its new. But the problem is they are so weak no one bothers to use them.

Now, if they release Forsaken with purpose of doubling as Warrior with 2hd in mind, then yes it'll be successful.

LunaHound wrote:Forsakens have their new models just their last release, its new. But the problem is they are so weak no one bothers to use them.

Now, if they release Forsaken with purpose of doubling as Warrior with 2hd in mind, then yes it'll be successful.

Forsaken have no models. Chosen do.

Grimtuff wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Forsakens have their new models just their last release, its new. But the problem is they are so weak no one bothers to use them.

Now, if they release Forsaken with purpose of doubling as Warrior with 2hd in mind, then yes it'll be successful.

Forsaken have no models. Chosen do.

Oooh thats right!

but i still say chosen + this arms and head = forsaken xD

Plastic chariot and plastic Dragon Ogres = EPIC WIN

Plastic Forsaken? Out of all the things to do in plastic

Maybe they'll make good WoC/Chosen though!

Hope the dragon ogres look less comical and dont break the bank (ahhh who am I kidding? )

Large kit? Assuming nothing NEW, Hellcannon?

I'm excited to hear this! Unfortunately, with our current book, I don't use any of it! Forsaken are an odd choice and I hope they make them better in-game and have awesome models. I heard a rumor a little while back of plastic Chaos Trolls, I've no idea how reliable that is, but I certainly would appreciate that, I love me some Chaos Trolls. Personally, I would kind of like to see new plastic Warriors and Marauders. While I do think the current Warriors look great, they do look a bit old, and I can't say I care for the Marauder models at all, love the horsemen, but not their footslogging counterpart. Warriors also come in such a bizarre number that it boggles my mind.

So.... part of the rumor is an updated army supplement, right?

I would guess a new rulebook to bring us into 8th...

I'm pleased, as a relatively new WoC general, I do feel that they should get Wood Elves and Brets done swiftly though, if a line is not popular, they need to reinvigorate it, not sideline it into obscurity. That's what worked well for Dark Eldar and Necrons in 40k.

I am keen to see more about the dragon ogres though!

I like the current book, but look forward to new models!

New WoC book? AWESOME! Another powerhouse 7th ed book getting redone before Wood Elves, Brettonians, or Dwarves is DEFINITELY the right thing to do. Great success, GW! Seriously, Eff those guys. They're weak, and their weakness means no one will buy them. Why bother redoing an army that sucks? There's no money in it, that's for sure! I applaud as always GW's wise and forward thinking business strategies which not only make perfect sense to everyone, but also appease gamers!

I don't think I buy it. But it does sort of worry me getting more active with my WoC army.

Harry predicts the release for August, between 40k rulebook in July and 40k starter in September

Kroothawk wrote:Harry predicts the release for August, between 40k rulebook in July and 40k starter in September

I had originally heard that timeframe for Dark Elves (or maybe they were after September?) and I'd rather have them because while I love their play-style, I think some Dark Elf models are pretty outdated and need some new kits.

The weird thing is, Nagashek, that from my understanding, despite not being a very powerful army, Wood Elves are still fairly popular (at least around here). But I agree with MeanGreenStompa, if they got a bunch of awesome new kits and a really good new book, they'd sell like crazy.

Wonder if the large kit is a shaggoth.

I'm hoping for a war mammoth or suitably less crappy chaos dragon than the ones we've had before!

This news slightly worries me. I've got my WoC cavalry army on the long finger, and I'm scared that this will make it even LESS viable. Ah well, best to soldier on and just think of it as a modelling project I guess.

Plastic chariot at last - easily one of the hardest models to proxy with 3rd party models as well, vs most of the choices in the book. Frankly what we need is a new book, the current one is boring as fakk

- Salvage

I don't know Fantasy that well, but bought a WoC army a year ago, and played a few games. So, when I ask, I do so earnestly: what's boring about the WoC book? It seems a lot more interesting than my Space Ork codex. It is boring by comparison?

The Fragile Breath wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Harry predicts the release for August, between 40k rulebook in July and 40k starter in September

The weird thing is, Nagashek, that from my understanding, despite not being a very powerful army, Wood Elves are still fairly popular (at least around here). But I agree with MeanGreenStompa, if they got a bunch of awesome new kits and a really good new book, they'd sell like crazy.

:laughs: Oops. I guess my post wasnt dripping with enough sarcasm.

They could be more popular, and many people want to own the army, but are heavily discouraged due to the outdated weakness of the army. I for one can't justify recommending it to a new player, it would be a waste to frustrate them so much an an army that has to be played flawlessly against an equally skilled opponant to get a tie. Sure there are regional exceptions, but by and large WE are not a capable army, and need an update much more than any of the three armies slated to get releases before them.

Indeed, if done right (and by that, I mean a lean, sexy, Goodwin or equally skilled sculpted army with a dark celtic horned hunter and smegsah dredlocked tatooed elf wardancers and sinister hooded bowmen and new, massive and gnarly treelords) then it would sell very very well indeed.

And I'd be buying it.

As it is, I don't know why they aren't sorting out Wood Elves, they are one of the cooler 'good' armies out there.

Nagashek wrote:laughs: Oops. I guess my post wasnt dripping with enough sarcasm.

They could be more popular, and many people want to own the army, but are heavily discouraged due to the outdated weakness of the army. I for one can't justify recommending it to a new player, it would be a waste to frustrate them so much an an army that has to be played flawlessly against an equally skilled opponant to get a tie. Sure there are regional exceptions, but by and large WE are not a capable army, and need an update much more than any of the three armies slated to get releases before them.

Never enough sarcasm. Never.

I did catch your sarcasm, I'm just saying it's surprising how popular they are, seeing as there's such a disadvantage in using them. I think we agree that GW is foolish to keep skipping them when so many people want to love them.

thunderingjove wrote:So, when I ask, I do so earnestly: what's boring about the WoC book?

To be more correct, what I meant is that the warrior armies that people actually play are really boring. Which is to say, that the current book, under the current rules, has lead to an extremely predictable meta: shadow or tizz level 4, tizz BSB, 2-3 blocks of warriors (tizz shields w/ rapturous standard, khorne halberds w/ fire or rage banner), ~1 horde of khorne great weapon marauders, 0-3 5 warhound packs, 0-1 knights, 0-1 trolls, 0-2 chariots, 1+ hellcannons. Or swap some of that for a chosenstar (tizz, halberds, terror banner, favor) and 1-2 (tizz) warshrines. Some people have the stones to deviate from these few units and loadouts, but for the most part there's a reason that 90% of warrior armies follow this template: because everything else is Obviously Less Good in comparison, often because it's Obviously Overcosted. We could roll out the examples, but basically they're nearly all of the Specials section (Forsaken! Dragon Ogres!) and the Rares (265+ point Shaggoth! 225+ point Giant!), where a lot of the WoC book's diversity sits at the moment.

And how can we forget the joke that is "choice of mark" - if by choice you mean Red or Blue, as Nurgle is honestly just bad in 8th due to army comp changes (and I like overcosted / underused things ) and Slaanesh has been largely made pointless as well thanks to 8th edition changes to LD. Even then, there is hardly much surprise in what things will end up 'Red' and what 'Blue' (in quotes because face it, how often do you fight marked warriors that are actually painted or modeled to represent it?), as again there are only so many standard unit builds that actually hit the table, despite what may look like variety in the book.

- Salvage

Nagashek wrote:
They could be more popular, and many people want to own the army, but are heavily discouraged due to the outdated weakness of the army. I for one can't justify recommending it to a new player, it would be a waste to frustrate them so much an an army that has to be played flawlessly against an equally skilled opponant to get a tie. Sure there are regional exceptions, but by and large WE are not a capable army, and need an update much more than any of the three armies slated to get releases before them.

I completely dissagree with your bleak outlook. Ive seen possitively insane woodelf armies that table the opponent quite well in most games... just because you dont see the potential does not mean its not there... take another look at massed archers

Boss Salvage wrote:

thunderingjove wrote:So, when I ask, I do so earnestly: what's boring about the WoC book?

To be more correct, what I meant is that the warrior armies that people actually play are really boring. Which is to say, that the current book, under the current rules, has lead to an extremely predictable meta: shadow or tizz level 4, tizz BSB, 2-3 blocks of warriors (tizz shields w/ rapturous standard, khorne halberds w/ fire or rage banner), ~1 horde of khorne great weapon marauders, 0-3 5 warhound packs, 0-1 knights, 0-1 trolls, 0-2 chariots, 1+ hellcannons. Or swap some of that for a chosenstar (tizz, halberds, terror banner, favor) and 1-2 (tizz) warshrines. Some people have the stones to deviate from these few units and loadouts, but for the most part there's a reason that 90% of warrior armies follow this template: because everything else is Obviously Less Good in comparison, often because it's Obviously Overcosted. We could roll out the examples, but basically they're nearly all of the Specials section (Forsaken! Dragon Ogres!) and the Rares (265+ point Shaggoth! 225+ point Giant!), where a lot of the WoC book's diversity sits at the moment.

And how can we forget the joke that is "choice of mark" - if by choice you mean Red or Blue, as Nurgle is honestly just bad in 8th due to army comp changes (and I like overcosted / underused things ) and Slaanesh has been largely made pointless as well thanks to 8th edition changes to LD. Even then, there is hardly much surprise in what things will end up 'Red' and what 'Blue' (in quotes because face it, how often do you fight marked warriors that are actually painted or modeled to represent it?), as again there are only so many standard unit builds that actually hit the table, despite what may look like variety in the book.

- Salvage

Ah, gotcha. I was actually thinking of converting my Warriors to Tzentch, because I "buy" his fluff the most, as it were; because I'm such a contrarian, I could bring myself to build the obvious cheese list, and am now thinking about modeling for Chaos Undivided.

I didn't understand the rationale behind the rules for Marks of Nurgle and Slaanesh; they just don't seem to make sense in the rules as I poorly understand them. Thanks for illuminating the history.

I don't see why forsaken even need a model. They're just chaos warriors, except not as good.

Hopefully the mystery kit is a plastic hellcannon.

Forsaken are a really cool idea- half-spawn in a way. I think they could be really awesome models. It's a shame the rules for them are so lame. If they were cheaper (so they could actually be a throwaway unit, which is what they're designed as) then they'd make sense with the current stats.