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I'm building some Lychguards & Praetorians. To save some time, I got some Army Painter Plate Mail, which I had never used before. Keep in mind I'm trying to do a nice standard here, not just bang them out as fast as possible via AP + dip; but this seemed like a good way to get a nice even coat to start with, in the right color as a bonus.

Of course, I didn't use a test model because I'm an idiot. I wound up not liking the color very much. It's a lot brighter than the only gallery they have posted of it on their site, which is not a problem and is actually sort of desirable. However, it looks cheap and "glittery" and not smooth like GW's metals (which is a problem). Say what you will about gee-dubs, their metallics are pretty awesome. But that's another thread.

Anyway. I was thinking of just painting over it with GW Chainmail. If I did that. then technically it's no harm, no foul since I would have primed them black anyway, right? How good is Army Painter as a primer, if you have experience with it in general (or Plate Mail in specific!)?

Or, will giving the Plate Mail a wash and then a dullcote improve it, or will that be like polishing a turd?

I've noticed the same problem when airbrushing metallics... they look smooth when brushed on, but when airbrushed on, it looks very grainy and bad.

Just saying there may be a step neither of us is aware of, but its probably not the paint, because airbrushed coats should be smooth as possible.

Horst wrote:I've noticed the same problem when airbrushing metallics... they look smooth when brushed on, but when airbrushed on, it looks very grainy and bad.

Just saying there may be a step neither of us is aware of, but its probably not the paint, because airbrushed coats should be smooth as possible.

This is the problem with Airbrushing metallics....as I have said before in other threads about paint; paint is comprised of a few main ingredients, you have Pigment/Binder/Carrier, in the case of metallic you also have flake.Pigment is what gives the paint it's color, Binder is the agent that as the paint dries causes it to bind together to other paint molecules, and in some types of paint, bind to the surface they are being applied to, while the carrier is simply a ingredient that helps the paint stay in a liquid form. In an ideal world the ratios of these ingredients would all be contingent upon the pigment or color wanting to be achieved, ask any one who has painted yellow or red extensively and they will tell you no all colors apply the same.

Now if you are following what I am saying above then it should make sense why the metallic paint looks rough when you airbrush it, typically thinners are added to the paint, but that starts to mess up the ratio of binder/pigment/carrier, so are left with too little flake to spread over an area...in the words of a famous hobbit "like too little butter scraped over too much bread..." Vallejo Air paints do minimize this a little, but you still have the problem because the base recipe for the paint is already skewed.

Lastly, the flake is a particle, and no matter how thin you get that paint, the particle of flake is not getting any smaller. You can try clear coating the models with a gloss coat to see if that will even things out, but for the most part the is par for the course when it comes to airbrushing/spraying mettallics.

Ashton

So all spray can metallics are inherently flawed like this? I have only used the one. I certainly was happy with the red (nonmetallic) one, so that's kinda a bummer.

I've used Model Air Metallics and thinned GW metallics through my airbrush. As nice as the Model Air paitns are, the grainy finish is a turn off to me. Thinned with Airbrush medium, The GW Metallics, in my opinion, airbrush smoother looking although not as loud in the brightness area. The grainy look is minimal. Something to try out if your willing to play with thinning with Airbrush medium, which I find now to be my number way to thin any all my paints even for brushing ( try it in your foundation colors, you'll love it).

Ouze wrote:So all spray can metallics are inherently flawed like this? I have only used the one. I certainly was happy with the red (nonmetallic) one, so that's kinda a bummer.

more or less...yes....some brands have finer flakes than others and so it is mitigated to a degree...another problem is the amount of flake per inch....you many have been spraying from too far away meaning that there was less flake per area than if you were closer. Just about the best metallic paint I have found for airbrushing/spraying is by a company called Alcad II they are laquer based metallics and lay down smoother than anything I have seen and they truly have a real metallic finish. I have also had acceptable results with Tamyia products, their spray cans of metallic finish go on quite nice.

Ashton

I use The Army Painter white and black sprays and they quite nice. Never had a problem with the. Now I don't mean to state the obvious here but could a few washes of a Black wash maybe help fix your problem?

Redfinger wrote:

Ouze wrote:So all spray can metallics are inherently flawed like this? I have only used the one. I certainly was happy with the red (nonmetallic) one, so that's kinda a bummer.

more or less...yes....some brands have finer flakes than others and so it is mitigated to a degree...another problem is the amount of flake per inch....you many have been spraying from too far away meaning that there was less flake per area than if you were closer. Just about the best metallic paint I have found for airbrushing/spraying is by a company called Alcad II they are laquer based metallics and lay down smoother than anything I have seen and they truly have a real metallic finish. I have also had acceptable results with Tamyia products, their spray cans of metallic finish go on quite nice.

Ashton

I just recently found the Alcad products on a site while i was looking for liquid gold. The pics of the finished product looks amazing. I'm tempted to grab a bottle to try on my new Dreadknight.

I bought some platemail spray for my son's GKs. I washed one with a few coats of Badab Black in the right places and then went on to finish it in under an hour.
It’s nowhere near one of my best, I’ve got quite a few pictures uploaded but for tabletop quality I think it looks pretty good.
The blade isn’t finished as he wanted paint it.

heavybolter wrote:

Redfinger wrote:

Ouze wrote:So all spray can metallics are inherently flawed like this? I have only used the one. I certainly was happy with the red (nonmetallic) one, so that's kinda a bummer.

more or less...yes....some brands have finer flakes than others and so it is mitigated to a degree...another problem is the amount of flake per inch....you many have been spraying from too far away meaning that there was less flake per area than if you were closer. Just about the best metallic paint I have found for airbrushing/spraying is by a company called Alcad II they are laquer based metallics and lay down smoother than anything I have seen and they truly have a real metallic finish. I have also had acceptable results with Tamyia products, their spray cans of metallic finish go on quite nice.

Ashton

I just recently found the Alcad products on a site while i was looking for liquid gold. The pics of the finished product looks amazing. I'm tempted to grab a bottle to try on my new Dreadknight.

Yeah the Alclad works great, a couple of pointers...

1. Alclad is STRONGLY influenced by the basecoat, for best results I would reccomend a gloss black bascoat
2. Alclad is designed for Airbrushing, work in thin coats, it dries fast so be quick.
3. It is laquer based, so unless you want to loose some braincells, open a window.

Other than that have fun!

Ashton

I never used Alclad (indeed, or even heard of it before). Which scenario do you think will work?

1.) I can drop it right atop my Army Painter silver primer
2.) I need to drop a coat of gloss black atop the AP, then the Alclad
3.) I need to strip the models, prime gloss black, then Alclad

Thanks for the advice.

Where did you get the alclad paints (website address)?

Also, do you have any experience with AP Dragon Red pirmer?
I am painting red robes on my Night Goblins, and I was wondering if I could simply spray the m dragon red and then paint on details.

Ouze wrote:I never used Alclad (indeed, or even heard of it before). Which scenario do you think will work?

1.) I can drop it right atop my Army Painter silver primer
2.) I need to drop a coat of gloss black atop the AP, then the Alclad
3.) I need to strip the models, prime gloss black, then Alclad

Thanks for the advice.

1. Yes, but if there is a grainy texture already on the surface, then that will not go away, the texture will still be there.

2. This might work, but you may loose detail

3. Probably your best option.

Ashton

I have used Alclad alot.
Redfingers advice is good but remember the following.
On resin and finecast it will not eat away at it,but it will wreck straight plastic.
They recommended a Lacquar based primer such as Tamiya Surface Primer.
On plastic models go light which you are supposed to do anyway to prevent possible damage to fine details
It must have a black basecoat and if you want shiny or reflective metal you need to use gloss black,I find testors enamel really good for this.
For you Eldar players they have really cool pearlesant colors like you see on 50,000 hot rods.
The Specra Chrome is like Mother of Pearl with that green/pink oil like sheen you cannot replicate by hand.
But you must paint the vehicle Chrome first
Here is a link to the various paints
http://alclad2.com/?page_id=4

Eisenhorn wrote:I have used Alclad alot.
On resin and finecast it will not eat away at it,but it will wreck straight plastic.
http://alclad2.com/?page_id=4

What do you mean by this, as long as the surface is prepped properly, Alclad can be used on any surface.

Ashton

Yes correct,what I mean is the lacquer from it will eat straight plastic so it must be primed,preferably with a lacquer
And to get the real effect it needs to be gloss black first which in itself it alot harder than you think.
Too little it is grainy,too much and it pools,you have to get it right before the point where it is too much for a perfect gloss which is needed for the chrome to be reflective.
But when you get it right you can shave your face in the finish.