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Has anyone else noticed how awesome dark eldar grotesques are? If you take a squad of ten of them thats 30 wounds and 30 S5 attacks without upgrades. Thats insane.

lost_soul wrote:Has anyone else noticed how awesome dark eldar grotesques are? If you take a squad of ten of them thats 30 wounds and 30 S5 attacks without upgrades. Thats insane.

They cost how much now?
350pts?

They have to have an IC with them at all time or they go bezerk....

They cant fit in a transport





now with Urien, making them Str6 and then giving them FC they get real good at tankbusting, especilly a multi charge on a Chimera/Razorback parkinglot and that is something DE just usually are not good at, but otherwise they arent that good.


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also they only come in metal and are very expensive (i know finecast now but still expensive)

Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

lost_soul wrote:Has anyone else noticed how awesome dark eldar grotesques are? If you take a squad of ten of them thats 30 wounds and 30 S5 attacks without upgrades. Thats insane.

9 Tyranid Warriors is 270 points, 27 wounds, and 36 S5 attacks on a charge.
But because of S8 guns causing ID and no wound allocation shenanigans, they just aren't that great.
I'd imagine there are similar issues with grotesques.

Right I understand all that, but If you pop them out of a webway right in the mix of a parking lot or a blob of troops it would desamate.

rigeld2 wrote:

lost_soul wrote:Has anyone else noticed how awesome dark eldar grotesques are? If you take a squad of ten of them thats 30 wounds and 30 S5 attacks without upgrades. Thats insane.

9 Tyranid Warriors is 270 points, 27 wounds, and 36 S5 attacks on a charge.
But because of S8 guns causing ID and no wound allocation shenanigans, they just aren't that great.
I'd imagine there are similar issues with grotesques.

grots are T5 and there are few Str10 / auto ID weapons out there but still


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the cheese is in the sarge upgrade
the abveration(whatever he is called) has 4 attacks (3+1)
now you give him a posioned weapon for 5 points
he now has 2 CCW for +1 attacks (3+1+1 = 5)and always wounds on 2+ (well he usually does but now even against wraitlords) and against T5 or less he gets to reroll to wound.

Klawjaw wrote:Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

Harbinger of despair flamer IDs against leadership, so unless they're ld. 4 they'll just take one wound.

lost_soul wrote:Right I understand all that, but If you pop them out of a webway right in the mix of a parking lot or a blob of troops it would desamate.

troops can be taken care of more easily by other units. but the parking lot, oooo 40 attacks at str7 on rear armor is nice!

Defiler37 wrote:

Klawjaw wrote:Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

Harbinger of despair flamer IDs against leadership, so unless they're ld. 4 they'll just take one wound.

Ld3 for normal grots, 4 for Abberration.

But they're still an alright unit, it's pretty situational...

Defiler37 wrote:

Klawjaw wrote:Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

Harbinger of despair flamer IDs against leadership, so unless they're ld. 4 they'll just take one wound.

they might actually be Ld 4, let me check


nope Ld 3!!!!!

the sarge is Ld 4


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Warboss Gutrip wrote:

Defiler37 wrote:

Klawjaw wrote:Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

Harbinger of despair flamer IDs against leadership, so unless they're ld. 4 they'll just take one wound.

Ld3 for normal grots, 4 for Abberration.

But they're still an alright unit, it's pretty situational...

yeah and harbinger has a T value right, he can be poison weaponed right

They sound good, but not broken.

I think the price £££ of them are broken, but besides from that they are a fun unit with very nice models -If i was playing dark eldar i would use them in a non-tournie list.

Wyches are probably still more cost effective at causing wounds in CC though

Im building a wyche army right now. I was going over wound to attack ratios for all the units and did the math for these guys and got blown away cause they would be really tough to wipe out in close combat which my whole army is going to be based on.

30 attacks on ten T5 models is insane? So ogryns?

The problem tends to be stuff sporting 2+ saves and S10 like say Assault Terminators....

jmurph wrote:30 attacks on ten T5 models is insane? So ogryns?

The problem tends to be stuff sporting 2+ saves and S10 like say Assault Terminators....

Assault Terminators aren't S10, they're S8 with TH/SS.

jmurph wrote:30 attacks on ten T5 models is insane? So ogryns?

The problem tends to be stuff sporting 2+ saves and S10 like say Assault Terminators....

ogryns come on a list that can easily deal with a chimera/razorback parking lot other ways.
Assault termites are str8 and besides DE can deal with termites pretty easily other ways.


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Defiler37 wrote:

Klawjaw wrote:Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

Harbinger of despair flamer IDs against leadership, so unless they're ld. 4 they'll just take one wound.

sorry, just read the rules on harbringer of despair.

the weapon rolls against the targets Ld instead of its T but the rules for ID say if the "Strength is Double its Toughness" not double whatever it is rolling against so they wont insta pop.

They are a very powerful close combat unit, but they have some big weaknesses.

AV12 walker=tarpit
AV12 walker with DCCW=insta kills & 3 combat resolution per wound.

Very low leadership. If a test can be forced they will fail. The only way to increase it is with an IC which can be picked out in CC.

They only do regular wounds. They do a lot of wounds, but against many other dedicated close combat units it's just not enough. If they lose CC by 1 combat resolution it's over because a good player will have directed attacks into the IC leaving them with LD4.

Overall they are a good solid unit worth their points, but not an overpowered/underpriced unit.

schadenfreude wrote:They are a very powerful close combat unit, but they have some big weaknesses.

AV12 walker=tarpit
AV12 walker with DCCW=insta kills & 3 combat resolution per wound.

Very low leadership. If a test can be forced they will fail. The only way to increase it is with an IC which can be picked out in CC.

They only do regular wounds. They do a lot of wounds, but against many other dedicated close combat units it's just not enough. If they lose CC by 1 combat resolution it's over because a good player will have directed attacks into the IC leaving them with LD4.

Overall they are a good solid unit worth their points, but not an overpowered/underpriced unit.

true but again, the Urien kind are str6, 7 on the charge which can take care of walkers. even the normal kind are probably 6 on the charge so one can hope. The Urien kind are also probably fearless or will become fearless soon enough.

they are good not great as you say, maybe even worth taking occaitonally but are way too expensive.

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Defiler37 wrote:

Klawjaw wrote:Even with an IC, a harbringer of despair will still ID them with his flamer.

Harbinger of despair flamer IDs against leadership, so unless they're ld. 4 they'll just take one wound.

sorry, just read the rules on harbringer of despair.

the weapon rolls against the targets Ld instead of its T but the rules for ID say if the "Strength is Double its Toughness" not double whatever it is rolling against so they wont insta pop.

Avatar 720 wrote:

jmurph wrote:30 attacks on ten T5 models is insane? So ogryns?

The problem tends to be stuff sporting 2+ saves and S10 like say Assault Terminators....

Assault Terminators aren't S10, they're S8 with TH/SS.

Lysander is the only S10 TH/SS termie

Exergy wrote:the weapon rolls against the targets Ld instead of its T but the rules for ID say if the "Strength is Double its Toughness" not double whatever it is rolling against so they wont insta pop.

False - perhaps you missed the FAQ.

Grots are ok with urien and I will run them out of portals in my coven list as now they are S6 with FC and FNP. The biggest problem with them is that they compete with trueborn for elite slots. I'd rather have my AT shooting then charging.

Grotesques with Urien are automatically Fearless if he joins them as essentially he gives them two tokens. Grots come with one, thus the total of three will bring them to fearless status right away. Urien himself is no slouch either. He's T5, 3 wounds, has a weapon that always wounds on a 3+ and ID's regardless of Toughness if you fail your save. He also regenerates one wound at the start of each of his turns. Combined that with the clone field and Urien is harder to kill than you think. While it's expensive...it is a very durable unit. Ogryns aren't as good as they don't have FNP...and to make Ogryns fearless...you are adding Yarrick. Plus, Grotesques can be put in a vehicle that you can assault out of...Ogryns? Not so much. To the OP, I think it's an idea worth exploring in your DE list.


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Akroma06 wrote:Grots are ok with urien and I will run them out of portals in my coven list as now they are S6 with FC and FNP. The biggest problem with them is that they compete with trueborn for elite slots. I'd rather have my AT shooting then charging.

Two units of Trueborn is usually enough. You have other units as well that can bring anti-tank.

I use a unit of grots in my webway portal army as one of the webway carrier units.

I take a 3 man grot unit, with 1 upgraded to aberration with venom blade, and 1 of the others upgraded to carry a liquifier gun.

They escort a haemonoculus with venom blade shattershard and webway portal.

The 3 man unit is multiwound and each model is equipped differently so you can do wound shenanigans.

mounted in a raider with NS and FF the unit comes out to 320 points including haemonoculus.

Starts with fnp, and furious charge, shattershard+liquifier gun on a unit is no joke.

on the charge the 2 normal grots get 4 str 6 attacks each and the aberration gets 5 str 6 attacks that wound on 2+ and can reroll wounds if model you attack is toughness 5 or less. Haemonoculus gets 4 strength 4 attacks that wound on a 2+. Since they start the game with FC these are all at initiative 5 and after the shattershard shot and liquifier gun.

I often have no qualms about charging [non deathstar] dedicated meq assault units or terminators with this squad. Unless my opponent rolls atrociously bad i do not wipe them the turn I charge and have never had this unit wiped out by the unit I charged it against, even after successive rounds of assault. Mostly due to the fact the wounds are diversified and the hit is enough to weaken most units so they cannot do significant damage each round of assault.