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Made in us
Paladin of the Wall





United States

Ive been wanting to start Black Templar's for the longest time but was worried that they suck. I haven't ever heard of them being competitive. Are they even viable since their codex is so old? If so, does some one mind pointing me in the right direction of a good build for BT?

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North of Chicago, IL USA

As odd as it seems, some people swear by shooty Black Templar lists.

You can take 2 heavy weapons in a 5-man terminators squad and then give them tank hunters. S9 Cyclone Missiles for the win!

I prefer to take a squad or two of Assault Terminators with furious charge and stick them in a Land Raider. With the Emperor's Champion taking the Accept Any Challenge vow, you'll be rerolling missed to-hits and missed wounds (lightning claws) in close combat. The lightning claws will be at I5 and S5. Sprinkle in a few Thunder Hammer terminators for their Storm Shields and this makes them the best assault terminators in the game in my book.

My only regret is that you can't take a sergeant in the Crusader Squads. So, at best you'll get a special weapon OR a power weapon/fist to go with a heavy weapon. On the other hand, a 5 man squad with a lascannon and plasma gun is a cheap and effective unit that you can easily take 4 of in a 2000 point game.

Under Performing units: I'm not a fan of the command squads, terminator command squads, Power Armored Sword Brethren, and super expensive Predators.

I do like that any unit can take a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport, but more than 2 is just silly outside of an Apoc game.

We might get a new codex this year, but who can really say?

For more information on Black Templars, check out this page on the BolterandChainsword forums.

For more army lists and ideas, check out the Black Templar Army Lists at the same forums.

I hope that helped.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
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kronk wrote:A So, at best you'll get a special weapon OR a power weapon/fist to go with a heavy weapon.


Good points, but you get the Special weapon AND a Power weapon/fist. However a Powerfist with just one atttack for 15 points is quite silly.


And you forgot the cheapest Typhoons of all.

I had quite some success with 9 Typhoons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/20 20:41:50



 
   
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Dark Scipio wrote:
kronk wrote:A So, at best you'll get a special weapon OR a power weapon/fist to go with a heavy weapon.


Good points, but you get the Special weapon AND a Power weapon/fist. However a Powerfist with just one atttack for 15 points is quite silly.



Good catch. Thanks for that.

I'm not a huge fan of Speeders, but I understand how effective they can be.

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 Kilkrazy wrote:
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Here is my 2500pt BT list that I am thinking about taking to a tourney next month. It is real shooty!

Though BT pay extra for some units (Rhinos and Razorbacks) they get really good cheap units elsewhere. Namely Typhoons, 5 man Termies with special weapons, and the best Vindies in the game in my opinion!

HQ
Marshal w/TA, SS, PF, Adamantine Mantle - 175

Emperors Champion w/AACNMTO - 140

ELITES
5 Terminators w/2 Cyclones, TH - 265

5 Terminators w/2 Cyclones, TH - 265

TROOPS
5 Man Crusader w/Lascannon, PG, Razorback w/TLLC - 191

5 Man Crusader w/Lascannon, PG, Razorback w/TLLC - 191

5 Man Crusader w/Lascannon, PG, Razorback w/TLLC - 191

5 Man Crusader w/Lascannon, PG, Razorback w/TLLC - 191

FAST ATTACK
2 Landspeeder Typhoons - 140

2 Landspeeder Typhoons - 140

2 Landspeeder Typhoons - 140

HEAVY SUPPORT
Vindicator w/POTMS - 155

Vindicator w/POTMS - 155

Vindicator w/POTMS - 155
   
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I actually don't like giving my marshal any weapon that makes him Ini 1. He is ini 5 and he can get furious charge to become ini 6. The TH/SS treatment really takes one of his best offensive stats and throws it out the window to give him a better armor save. I prefer giving him a pair of lightning claws so he can be a str 5 Ini 6, rerolling hits and wounds monster. If he is in terminator armor he gets terminator honours for free, the lightning claws give him an extra attack and if he is charging (he should be) thats 6 attacks on the charge. He is strong enough to wipe out half a 10 man squad by himself before they even get to fight back.

And you know the whole thing about the best defense being a good offense. You don't need that extra 2 to your invuln save when half your opponents are dead before they even get to attack. Of course some people straight dislike taking the command squad. Honestly though, they are just like our "amazing" elite terminators. You only need to take 3 instead of 5 (saving you 80 points) and you can still give them two assault cannons or missiles, and now that our missile have been buffed to be heavy 2. They are oh so nice to have.

I actually prefer to play my army as a shooty terminator heavy list. Sometimes taking up to 5 terminator squads all with missiles and tank hunters. And then the 5 man las cannon squads as troops or sometimes if I need to cut points take a single shooty ven dread. Usually not many points left for other things after that but as was mentioned typhoons are cheap and have gotten that nice buff of being heavy 2 missile launchers. They make great support fire platforms.

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They are very viable. The BT codex has two out of date rules that have been dealt with in the FAQs. Other than those, it is a slightly tricky book to use because of the old style of buying each little item, but it is very viable. It is very different from the vanilla Space Marine codex, which is why people are frustrated with Black Templars.

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So would it be better to collect BT's played as vanilla marines until new book?

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Molotovsoda wrote:So would it be better to collect BT's played as vanilla marines until new book?


Missing the point of the discussion...

Black Templars are very different from the vanilla codex. The micro management of woke of the options sometimes overwhelms some new players. If you want to play Templars, the effort is worth it.

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Marshall Ragnar wrote:HQ
Marshal w/TA, SS, PF, Adamantine Mantle - 175


I'm really not a fan of giving up I5 on my marshals. A power weapon or a lightning claw is prefered. Slap a meltabomb on him if you're worried about walkers, I think.

Besides, what are you doing with this Marshal? Is he sitting with one of your Terminator squads?

IcedAnimals wrote: You only need to take 3 instead of 5 (saving you 80 points) and you can still give them two assault cannons or missiles, and now that our missile have been buffed to be heavy 2. They are oh so nice to have.


Not quite. Minimum size is 4. 3 + 1 Sergeant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/21 14:02:28


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 Kilkrazy wrote:
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Sorry but the shooty black Templar builds don't work. They maximize too much on one thing and cause huge gaping holes in other areas. Look for a balance list reduce and minimize the cost on your crusader squads and you should be good.
   
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Colorado

@ kronk, I have been playing them wrong for years. To be fair I so rarely play them that I don't exactly have tons of opportunities to check but wow.

@darkwynn my shooty templars work great. I have 4 squads of terminators each capable of throwing out 4 str 9 shots before they assault the occupants. Oh no they don't have stormshields. They are still terminators with power fists and prefered enemy, they aren't weak in CC by any means. Don't have vehicles I need to pop? they are firing 4 AP3 missiles or 4 frag missiles into whatever they need on top of their stormbolters.

Thats the thing about shooty templar builds. You are shooty but thanks to the emperors champion + terminator spam you are also good in assault. Sure you aren't grey knights who can throw out the same thing but have ini 6 force weapons but GK make everyone look bad, not just templars.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/22 01:47:00


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IcedAnimals wrote:@ kronk, I have been playing them wrong for years. To be fair I so rarely play them that I don't exactly have tons of opportunities to check but wow.

@darkwynn my shooty templars work great. I have 4 squads of terminators each capable of throwing out 4 str 9 shots before they assault the occupants. Oh no they don't have stormshields. They are still terminators with power fists and prefered enemy, they aren't weak in CC by any means. Don't have vehicles I need to pop? they are firing 4 AP3 missiles or 4 frag missiles into whatever they need on top of their stormbolters.

Thats the thing about shooty templar builds. You are shooty but thanks to the emperors champion + terminator spam you are also good in assault. Sure you aren't grey knights who can throw out the same thing but have ini 6 force weapons but GK make everyone look bad, not just templars.



Oh I know all about Templars, I actual think I am the only one who has won a gt with Templars. David Fey might have but I am unsure.

You can have all those terminators but you min maxing to much and they are not great in assault decent or true assault units will tear them apart. Plus your paying to many points for the tank hunting terminators. 265 you can almost get 4 speeders or spend the points on other items.
   
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Darkwynn wrote:
IcedAnimals wrote:@ kronk, I have been playing them wrong for years. To be fair I so rarely play them that I don't exactly have tons of opportunities to check but wow.

@darkwynn my shooty templars work great. I have 4 squads of terminators each capable of throwing out 4 str 9 shots before they assault the occupants. Oh no they don't have stormshields. They are still terminators with power fists and prefered enemy, they aren't weak in CC by any means. Don't have vehicles I need to pop? they are firing 4 AP3 missiles or 4 frag missiles into whatever they need on top of their stormbolters.

Thats the thing about shooty templar builds. You are shooty but thanks to the emperors champion + terminator spam you are also good in assault. Sure you aren't grey knights who can throw out the same thing but have ini 6 force weapons but GK make everyone look bad, not just templars.



Oh I know all about Templars, I actual think I am the only one who has won a gt with Templars. David Fey might have but I am unsure.

You can have all those terminators but you min maxing to much and they are not great in assault decent or true assault units will tear them apart. Plus your paying to many points for the tank hunting terminators. 265 you can almost get 4 speeders or spend the points on other items.


And what in the Codex (barring Assault Terminators) stands up to "true assault units" if you get charged? I'm not saying you're wrong, but how would you run Templars if you're not running shooty?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But even so, trying to imply any real level of organisation within 4chan is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. It's a formless bunch that occasionally congeals to form something, but it's gone just as quickly as it arrived.
JPong wrote:
I don't get this. There has been some sort of revisionist history going on here (and other places) every time this topic comes up. They all just keep swearing that Fifth was assault oriented. Even assault armies were taking troops so they could get more razorbacks or rhinos or psyweapons. There is a reason Tyranids did poorly in this "assault" edition, and it has nothing to do with their assault units being bad in the context of Fifth.
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Black Templars are awesome in smaller points games - like 1000 point games in general

Emperors champion is always a must, Assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields in a land raider redeemer is highly recommended

   
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sumi808 wrote:Emperors champion is always a must


Obviously, considering that's what the rules say...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But even so, trying to imply any real level of organisation within 4chan is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. It's a formless bunch that occasionally congeals to form something, but it's gone just as quickly as it arrived.
JPong wrote:
I don't get this. There has been some sort of revisionist history going on here (and other places) every time this topic comes up. They all just keep swearing that Fifth was assault oriented. Even assault armies were taking troops so they could get more razorbacks or rhinos or psyweapons. There is a reason Tyranids did poorly in this "assault" edition, and it has nothing to do with their assault units being bad in the context of Fifth.
Referred to 8 times. 
   
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sumi808 wrote:Black Templars are awesome in smaller points games - like 1000 point games in general

Emperors champion is always a must, Assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields in a land raider redeemer is highly recommended


And we don't have redeemer's..........
   
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Shooty BT are very good, DP terminators who when shot run towards you, rerolling to hit. Very good. Marshal for board wide Ld10 is also really useful.
   
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Shooty BT are very good, DP terminators who when shot run towards you, rerolling to hit. Very good. Marshal for board wide Ld10 is also really useful.


Bolded for emphasis; I used to think that it wasn't that big of a deal, then I too an arr... *cough* then I failed a whole lot of target priority tests in a tournament and lost two games because of it. Went 3-2 instead of 5-2 because I didn't have enough time to paint a Terminator Marshal and had to bring a Chaplain instead.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But even so, trying to imply any real level of organisation within 4chan is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. It's a formless bunch that occasionally congeals to form something, but it's gone just as quickly as it arrived.
JPong wrote:
I don't get this. There has been some sort of revisionist history going on here (and other places) every time this topic comes up. They all just keep swearing that Fifth was assault oriented. Even assault armies were taking troops so they could get more razorbacks or rhinos or psyweapons. There is a reason Tyranids did poorly in this "assault" edition, and it has nothing to do with their assault units being bad in the context of Fifth.
Referred to 8 times. 
   
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sumi808 wrote:Black Templars are awesome in smaller points games - like 1000 point games in general

Emperors champion is always a must, Assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields in a land raider redeemer is highly recommended


I think you mean Land Raider Crusader. We don't get Redeemers...

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