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Not really a surprise at this point, since I was having no luck trying to get info on the yearly tournament series for the last 3 months, and if you can't find out who's in charge of something at GW, then no one is, and it's not being taken seriously. But did get official word that they cancelled it, so at least they gave us that bit of info.

Ed Spettigue and Chris Woodward are gone. Bit of a different era coming up. I think they put a lot of things on the chopping block, and the longer we don't hear about them, the more likely they are just not being supported.

For a longer rant on several subjects, find me at the bar at Adepticon.)

They had a fantasy and 40k version right? They're both out? Does that represent the last GW sanctioned tourney?

/Adepticon just got bigger

mikhaila wrote:Not really a surprise at this point, since I was having no luck trying to get info on the yearly tournament series for the last 3 months, and if you can't find out who's in charge of something at GW, then no one is, and it's not being taken seriously. But did get official word that they cancelled it, so at least they gave us that bit of info.

Do you think it was cancelled due to the upcoming release of 6th, or is that unrelated (or only tangentially related)?

mikhaila wrote:Ed Spettigue and Chris Woodward are gone.

Who were they, if you don't mind me asking?

I didn't know Chris Woodward but Ed Spettigue was an institution at GWUS. Dude had been around for over 20 years I wanna say. When I was with the company he was the Regional VP for the central region but I know his role got switched up a lot over the last 7 years including being the liason for the indy circuit. Mikhaila can probably give a better answer.

Mr. Spettigue was, IIRC, the N.A. "Sales and Promotions Director".

Mr. Woodward was... er.... sales and trade somethingorother I think.

While I don't like seeing events get dropped on the whole, I can't honestly feel that bad for this one.

I know alot of guys liked 'Ard Boyz, but I hated it as it has poisoned my local scene and fostered nothing but a WAAC's style of play where even 'friendly' pick-up games on open gaming nights are nothing but filthy cheddar fests. Every game is treated like a prep for 'ard boyz, even if you don't want to play that way, and it's all but killed off 40k in my area because the kids get discouraged and the few of us who don't want to play that way don't really have opponents.

Hopefully 'Ard Boyz being cancelled will either see the local WAAC's crowd either tone down the filth, or else rage-quite and stop polluting the community with their silly antics.

reds8n wrote: Mr. Spettigue was, IIRC, the N.A. "Sales and Promotions Director".

Mr. Woodward was... er.... sales and trade somethingorother I think.

And Kirby's running GWUS directly at the moment right?

That's too bad, I was looking forward to 'Ard Boyz this year.

...

... I don't think so.

IIRC he was , for a while, spending time over there ( was it 3 weeks per month or something ?), but I think this ended a while back. Prior to the last set of (full) financial results anyway.

GW cared less and less for 'ard boyz with every passing year, could see this coming years ago. After 5 years i'm a bit glad it was cancelled before it really became a travesty

I was really looking forward to it....

This is the best news I've heard today. Excellent. The 'Ard Boyz was poorly run and had a ton of issues at the qualifier level, the semis level. The last few years it was obvious that it was an after thought. Good riddance IMHO. There are plenty of events around the country now that can satisfy the tournament base.

Yeah I agree, 'ard boyz basically killed 4 months of decent events that I could run. I might do an 'ard boyz style event tho this spring/summer to compensate

Kirasu wrote:Yeah I agree, 'ard boyz basically killed 4 months of decent events that I could run. I might do an 'ard boyz style event tho this spring/summer to compensate

Yup. It literally proliferated unpainted armies to the Nth degree in my area. For years, we'd have a healthy mix of armies and some really nicely painted ones. Then Ard Boyz came along and ruined that mentality...then every game became a practice game, etc. Fortunately, this past year interest waned for Ard Boyz. I think they only had like 8-10 players at the qualifier this past year..where normally there would be about 20.

Yeah, you probably could run a better event than Ard Boyz anyways.

I enjoyed the fantasy ones, I got to play pretty hard core lists and it was fun, well if it's not happeneing, then that saves me money this summer as I was going to redo my list for it.

CaptKaruthors wrote:

Kirasu wrote:Yeah I agree, 'ard boyz basically killed 4 months of decent events that I could run. I might do an 'ard boyz style event tho this spring/summer to compensate

Yup. It literally proliferated unpainted armies to the Nth degree in my area. For years, we'd have a healthy mix of armies and some really nicely painted ones. Then Ard Boyz came along and ruined that mentality...then every game became a practice game, etc. Fortunately, this past year interest waned for Ard Boyz. I think they only had like 8-10 players at the qualifier this past year..where normally there would be about 20.

Yeah, you probably could run a better event than Ard Boyz anyways.

QFT

CaptKaruthors wrote:This is the best news I've heard today. Excellent. The 'Ard Boyz was poorly run and had a ton of issues at the qualifier level, the semis level. The last few years it was obvious that it was an after thought. Good riddance IMHO. There are plenty of events around the country now that can satisfy the tournament base.

I know very few will agree with me, but the thing some people liked about 'Ardboyz was
1. It was free to enter
2. You did not have to worry about somebody judging your paint/sportsmanship score and there by had the ability to tank your score
3. Had good prize support for the first two levels, esp for a free tournament.

Experiment@

Without meeting your gamers, I think your issue is more with your gamers and less with 'Ardboyz. I really don't think WAAC players will stop being that way just because of one tournament. Again I don't know anyone from your store, but I do know WAAC players. WAAC players only goal is to win. You could have a tournament where first prize was a kick in the balls with steel toe boots and WAAC players would fight for the spot just to say they won.

Now as to the subject at hand, I liked the idea of "Ardboyz but I hated the way GW did it. The missions were wacky, and I was ok with that. But they never proof read the missions to see if there would be any issues before releasing them. The other thing I hated was players traveling to different stores because they thought it would be an eazy win for them.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/437539.page

Too bad its gone.

Well theres a mature response.......

Ard boyz may have been a good idea for the uber gamer but, it undermined the hobby as a whole for me. I had my days as a competitive player, got a few RT trophies and awards but the longer I am with the game the more I just want to play a game with some nicely painted figs and talk about nothing in general with another player and have a good time.

I am sure ard boys made some shops money and helped e-bays numbers with out a doubt but as others have already posted I think it did more long term harm then good. So I am glad to see it go. It sucks for those who liked the format but its not like some one else can't pick up the event, re-name and launch it. So I doubt it will be gone for long, GW just wont be funding/supporting it, or so it would appear..

While I agree somewhat about the "Free" aspect of 'ard boyz.. I also think its more a mental reaction rather than the free cost mattering at all

You've spent money to get a 2500 point army
You've also traveled quite a distance in MOST areas due to erratic placing of events
You've spent 10 hours of your life
The prizes for round 1 are equivalent to a 20 person event with no external prize support

It is certainly not a *free* event. Is 10-15$ really such a huge detraction if you've already bought an army and are willing to travel? .. seems like complaining over the price of a soda when you've already bought a 200$ dinner to me.. IE a bit silly

Made the mistake of double posting, but apparently it isn't just cancelled this year, but for good with plans to replace it with an RT style tournament.

I know a lot of elitists who hate plastic grey are saying good riddance, but I think this is not a change for the better. You may be okay playing your same 4 chums with immaculate armies, but I liked playing just whoever has the mini's around and the strategy to win. Any objectional score is a poor scoring category in my point of view (which will obviously differ from some here.) I've played in RT's with lists built to win in both 40k and Fantasy and been docked comp over a special character or purely by virtue of playing GK's.

It was nice to have a format with great prize support that was a multi stage tournament where to only goal was murder of your opponents plastic menz.

Besides, it's hard to beat that round 2 prize.

Although I've always been a fan of having a variety of different tournament types out there to have different styles of tournament play available I personally think the 'ard boyz overall did more harm than good by helping to foster the myth that most tournament players could somehow play games of that size in 2 1/2 hours, which although was obviously possible (as many people did finish their games) for a tournament standard is really just a cruel joke.

Anyone using even a decent sized army never had any real chance of finishing games (unless they were an amazingly fast player and were playing against a speedy opponent with a small army).

In reality, 'ard boyz was just an exercise of seeing who could master the 3-4 turn game...which is ridiculous as an overall concept.

So I'll say a not-so-fond farewell to the tournament. It will not be missed by me, for one. We have so many independent T.O.'s running so much better and varied tournaments, that it should R.I.P.

It's possible to have a painted-only tournament and not have a painting score.

Your post comes off as rather hostile, Thunderfrog.

I am a bad painter and comp is worse than just being honest and making a new game.

I am sad that a national tourney that supports my play style is gone.

editing to add:
Though unpainted armies make a poorer tourney, lack of a tourney makes painted armies less interesting.

kirsanth wrote:I am a bad painter and comp is worse than just being honest and making a new game.

I am sad that a national tourney that supports my play style is gone.

If only there were people in the East Bay of California who liked to run events that have no comp and only require a 3 color minimum (and whose paint score has no effect on your overall tournament placement)...

LOL

+1 yakface.

I have missed BAO due to work - blame that. I am still upset!

editing to add:
Guess I found my own first world problem?
><

Kirasu wrote:While I agree somewhat about the "Free" aspect of 'ard boyz.. I also think its more a mental reaction rather than the free cost mattering at all

You've spent money to get a 2500 point army
You've also traveled quite a distance in MOST areas due to erratic placing of events
You've spent 10 hours of your life
The prizes for round 1 are equivalent to a 20 person event with no external prize support

It is certainly not a *free* event. Is 10-15$ really such a huge detraction if you've already bought an army and are willing to travel? .. seems like complaining over the price of a soda when you've already bought a 200$ dinner to me.. IE a bit silly

QFT!

Ugh! I liked playing in the 40k 'Ard Boyz. Never ever came close to the top but it was still fun. Almost always won a cool door prize from my FLGS.

Kirasu wrote:While I agree somewhat about the "Free" aspect of 'ard boyz.. I also think its more a mental reaction rather than the free cost mattering at all

You've spent money to get a 2500 point army
You've also traveled quite a distance in MOST areas due to erratic placing of events
You've spent 10 hours of your life
The prizes for round 1 are equivalent to a 20 person event with no external prize support

It is certainly not a *free* event. Is 10-15$ really such a huge detraction if you've already bought an army and are willing to travel? .. seems like complaining over the price of a soda when you've already bought a 200$ dinner to me.. IE a bit silly

I do not fully disagree with you, but You already spent the money on the Army, heck I got 2 armies and the smallest is over 5000pts. Typically traveling is only an issue in the regional rounds, and that is more of a GW issue than the tournament issue.

I don't see spending 10 hours playing 3 games of a system I enjoy a cost. I see it as a reward. While the first round prizes are not balls to the walls great, it is for a free tournament. At least in my area, we have trouble getting 3 people to show up for a weekly game. Monthly tournaments and you get 8-10 people on a good month. 'Ardboyz we would get almost 20 every year. ANd these are not WAAC players. These are the basement players that only come out for the big tournaments.

For me the "free" thing is not an issue, it's the no comp no painting that I have issue. I have been burned in tournaments because my paint did not live up to the Golden Deamon winners in the room. And I have been tanked because others thought my list was too hard, so while at 'Ardboyz, I would get 2nd or 3rd I wind up getting 7-8 because of soft scores that were not applied evenly.

Additionally, I'd see several people just "proxying" armies one for another. I'd see several people just build a 2500pt army for the sole purpose of just playing the event (thus half built, all gray plastic and metal)...with no intention of ever painting the army. This mentality started to slip into the standard events in the area and would propagate the idea that the hobby portion of the game is irrelevant...which to most isn't. It also encouraged the mentality of utterly crushing/ tabling your opponent..even if you are already winning handily...just to score the extra points. This mentality carried over into other events. Fortunately, that has changed in my area...albeit very slowly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

For me the "free" thing is not an issue, it's the no comp no painting that I have issue. I have been burned in tournaments because my paint did not live up to the Golden Deamon winners in the room. And I have been tanked because others thought my list was too hard, so while at 'Ardboyz, I would get 2nd or 3rd I wind up getting 7-8 because of soft scores that were not applied evenly.

Most events now separate the scores. Thus while usually a minimum painting requirement is used for tournament entry..your paint score is judged separately from your battle points. The golden demon level paint jobs should be winning those best painted awards. They are spending their time "perfecting" their painting as much as you spent time "perfecting your list and tactical play".