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I am newish to 40k, so I have not been around a very long time, I do not have many ol years of lore to call upon. I have noticed there is a massive amount of Hate for this guy, could anyone explain why? I mean I know he changed some stuff, but 40k is all over the place and is in need of consolidation. So just what did he do?

He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Could you give me some examples?

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists with 0 regard to external balance, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Fixe'd for you

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

You could answer the OP's question without letting your own opinion known.

Essentially, Matt Ward has written a few codexes are are regarded as being unfluffy by the fanbase ('nids and SM's infatuation with UM), or overpowered to play against (BA). Obviously opinion is divided on the issue.
Personally I'm somewhat annoyed by the fact that his codexes seem to be stuffed full of special rules that makes them cooler/more powerful than you'd otherwise expect. But then I'd prefer a more "generalised" game anyway, with as few unit-specific special rules as possible.
Though the Warhammer Fantasy Deamons book is said to have literally broken WHF, never played it extensively so couldn't say.

Seeing as everything he wrote for 40K 5th Edition is less broken than IG or Space Wolves, yet not quite as flawed as Tyranids, while being infinitly more varied than the overtly repetitive spam of DE, he nevetheless seems to hit external balance far better than all the other Codex Writers that have tried.

Zweischneid wrote:
You could have given your opinion without pretending that it represents some cryptic "fan base" that you randomly cite to give your opinion a false veneer of objectivity.

What? I stated an objective answer the question, then stated my own opinion.

Joey wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:
You could have given your opinion without pretending that it represents some cryptic "fan base" that you randomly cite to give your opinion a false veneer of objectivity.

What? I stated an objective answer the question, then stated my own opinion.

You did. I apologize

jgehunter wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists with 0 regard to external balance, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

Fixe'd for you

Yes because Phil kelly (Writer of Space Wolves) and Cruddance (Writer of Imperial Guard) compare to Matt Ward (Writer of Space wolves)

At the very least Matt has made some mid-tier stuff (Vanilla Marines, Blood Angels), Cruddance has made one horridly overpowered book and one rather well underpowered book, and Phil has Dark Eldar as his mid balance.

Matt ward just writes some horribly silly fluff though, and is far to much a Ultramarines fanboy.

overpowered to play against (BA).

BA is overpowered? How?

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

This pretty much nails it.

IMHO, he writes decent enough rules but the fluff he writes tends to scrap and invalidate other writers fluff and is geared waaaay too much towards the UM.

Nom

Blood angels are overpowered when looking at every other codex other than grey knights. The codex is overpowered, its just not seen in the tournament scene because of the more over powered builds that are out. Blood angels wasn't balanced in the lest bit. But as died down just because every one who broke that codex went to grey knights. The bugs codex is so bad i don't see how people still buy them other than to paint and model em. And personally i think Phil is the best writer for GW. But that is just a personal thing. Take it or leave it.

Blood angels are overpowered when looking at every other codex other than grey knights. The codex is overpowered, its just not seen in the tournament scene because of the more over powered builds that are out.

So if it doesn't have a more overpowered build than the current other codex's..

How is it more overpowered than them?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

overpowered to play against (BA).

BA is overpowered? How?

There was a thread dedocated to it but it got shut down to due trolling by people who've never played against them.
OP is a bit of a stretch since it's not a very handy word, being subjective etc etc.
BA are basically Space Marines...but every single unit has some special rule or something that makes it that bit cooler.
Dreadnaughts with infinite attacks, army-wide FNP, army-wide fast vehicles (except LRs), a monsterous creature on an infantry base (there's no point saying LOL HE GOTS NO INVUL SAVE when he's always going to get cover anyway), outflanking predators with twin-linked assault cannon and sponsons, etc etc.
Not over-powered the way that Grey Knights are but just...eh. If you took that design philosophy and applied it to all codexes, the game would be incredibly complicated and nigh-on unplayable. It's an irritating codex to play against.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Blood angels are overpowered when looking at every other codex other than grey knights. The codex is overpowered, its just not seen in the tournament scene because of the more over powered builds that are out.

So if it doesn't have a more overpowered build than the current other codex's..

How is it more overpowered than them?

Cos logic is not allowed here!!!!

Anywho some builds crush certain armies and don't give them any chance at all.

NOm

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Blood angels are overpowered when looking at every other codex other than grey knights. The codex is overpowered, its just not seen in the tournament scene because of the more over powered builds that are out.

So if it doesn't have a more overpowered build than the current other codex's..

How is it more overpowered than them?

Because a codex can be overpowered, underpowered, or about right. It's all open to debate.
Ben Nevis is high, but it's not as high as Mount Everest .So according to you, it's flat.

nomsheep wrote:IMHO, he writes decent enough rules but the fluff he writes tends to scrap and invalidate other writers fluff and is geared waaaay too much towards the UM.

Nom

Have you ever actually read the 4th Edition Space Marine Codex by Pete Haines and Graham McNeill? Every single piece of artwork had UM-logo. Every single army-list entry was depicted with an UM-logo. Ever single "fluff-box" and story is exclusively UM: Most special units like Honor Guard or Veterans came with UM-specific names. Only two non-UM chapters were even shown in the paint-section in anything other than a single model. Only two non-UM SC were included compared to 5 in the 5th Edition book. Fluff specific to non-UM exploded nearly tenfold in the transition from 4th to 5th.

I can understand the frustration for some of the more popular chapters like Iron Hands still getting the short shrift, but I doubt that Mat Ward, on his first "big" project (for 40K) and on arguably GW's main IP-flagship of Space Marines no less, could have possibly toned down UM any more. I am surprised at how far he actually went.

Zweischneid wrote:

nomsheep wrote:IMHO, he writes decent enough rules but the fluff he writes tends to scrap and invalidate other writers fluff and is geared waaaay too much towards the UM.

Nom

Have you ever actually read the 4th Edition Space Marine Codex? Every single piece of artwork had UM-logo. Every single army-list entry was depicted with an UM-logo. Ever single "fluff-box" and story is exclusively UM: Most special units like Honor Guard or Veterans came with UM-specific names. Only two non-UM chapters were even shown in the paint-section in anything other than a single model. Only two non-UM SC were included compared to 5 in the 5th Edition book. Fluff specific to non-UM exploded nearly tenfold in the transition from 4th to 5th.

I can understand the frustration for some of the more popular chapters like Iron Hands still getting the short shrift, but I doubt that Mat Ward, on his first "big" project (for 40K) and on arguably GW's main IP-flagship of Space Marines no less, could have possibly toned down UM any more. I am surprised at how far he actually went.

Like i said it's my opinion. lol

Yes, yes i have.

I agree. buts its comments like the one that says all other chapters want to be ultramarines tht bothers me. tis all.


NOm

.
BA are basically Space Marines...but every single unit has some special rule or something that makes it that bit cooler.
Dreadnaughts with infinite attacks, army-wide FNP, army-wide fast vehicles (except LRs), a monsterous creature on an infantry base (there's no point saying LOL HE GOTS NO INVUL SAVE when he's always going to get cover anyway), outflanking predators with twin-linked assault cannon and sponsons, etc etc.

I don't mind the outflanking predators, codex space marine has outflanking Land Raiders with hammernators.

The infinite attack thing wasn't well thought out yeah, but it's next codex will limit it most likely

Army wide FNP is meh, as I preferred it only being on Death Company. So I will give that one to you pretty much.

I don't mind the army wide fast vehicles, makes em more expensive, not to mention they had those before.

Though I honestly wish they didn't give them sternguard, felt those should've stayed with standard marines.

Personally I don't really have a problem with his stuff. I do think that Matt's Codecies represent a bit of a change of direction of the Codex in general, and as such is probably why they have attracted more flak than those written by Cruddace and Kelly, specifically regarding the background material he writes.

Specifically I think it is the massively overblown, beyond the realms of comic-book, background that has put a lot of people's backs up. Codecies have always favoured the army they are writing about in the background, it's just that Ward's turns the notch up to 11. So, we have Marneus Calgar and Draigo, amongst others, performing feats almost Biblical in nature. But, I think it's important to realise that these are deliberately biased accounts of background, designed to make 11-13 year-olds say "OMG, that is AWESOME" rather than a more objective/believable account of the kind that you might read about in a Black Library book.

My only other complaint, specifically regarding the BA book, is that the Storm Raven was involved in every single battle ever fought in by the BA, and played a decisive role in each of them. But, I don't think that was his fault, rather the sales department probably asked him to make sure it got x number of mentions in the background section.

I do think however that his codecies mark perhaps the end of the divide between saying a codex is 'canon' in terms of background, rather than the far more carefully and conscientiously written BL novels, which I know had previously become the case. Draigo bestriding the warp for years before carving his name onto the heart of Mortarion? It is meant to sound as if it is something from Legend, not taken at face value I think.

I like some of his ideas (changing the Necrons from mindless automatons and bestowing them with some character for instance), and to be fair his codecies are at least fun to use. But, specifically regarding the background (and regarding the stuff he has written as somehow sacrosanct because it is written in a Codex) I wouldn't touch it with a barge-pole for the most part.

I think BA had a problem with the issue of comparison to other marines codexes , it kinda does everything better than the others want mech spam? ( the main competitive with mechs power in this edition)have fast rhino varients, want infantry based army have a chance for fearless and apothicaries for feel no pain attachment. assault based list? stormravens and assault squads as troops and land raider dedicated transport.
Which was generally BT territory.
SW has their unique units
DA only have termie wing and ravenwing and fearless abundance
BT are now reduced mainly to.upgrade differences and combined squads with neophytes
SM is mainly a special character book and bonus units like thunderfire cannons and ironclads
and with the dawn of grey knights they are completely unique but still.have alot of competitive builds which can be more bluntly exploited which kinda swept BA under the carpet.

Cut a long story short whatever build you want to do (bar SW and GK) try Ba and 9/10 it will be done better or cheaper allowing for a more competitive list

I should saved the text of my reply in the last of these threads.


I don't care about Ward's rules, I only care about the fluff. Ward's fluff is overblown, written like bad fan-fiction from a breathless 6-year-old. He has no appreciation for subtlety, and cannot construct a narrative that makes any logical sense. His fluff is some of the worst out there and I cannot stand it.

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

You know how I know you're no older than 10 years old?

You couldn't tell by the other threads?

Vladsimpaler wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:He writes brilliant, innovative and diverse army lists, revived/scrapped some of the dullest, most pretentious fluff in 40K and killed alot of holy neckbeard cows.

You know how I know you're no older than 10 years old?

Seems a bit of a harsh blanket statement there.


Nom

I will happily forgive C:SM Ultra love, let's not forget that in 2nd, this book was actually called Codex: Ultramarines, as they are the template chapter and therefore the most generic.

Power balance has always been an issue, and he is simply the poster boy for it in the current environment, who knows, in 6th, it all may go down the toilet?

The thing that did it for me, on my return last year after over a decade out, what actually made me properly angry? Draigo! Cannot believe this thread has reached this many posts without it coming up already.

So yes, one can argue some game imbalance, but I find his lists allow for interest and variety in general, but the fluff he writes means that he should have things done to him with a rusty knife sometimes.

H.B.M.C. wrote:You couldn't tell by the other threads?

Haha to be honest no, I lol'd hard his first post of the thread though!

:edit: He's the dude who thinks that there was never animosity in Chaos, now everything makes sense (serious)

nomsheep wrote:Seems a bit of a harsh blanket statement there.

He said Ward's Marine Codex toned down the Ultramarine love-in with a straight face, and called everyone who disagreed with him a 'neckbeard'. I think he's earned a blanket statement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vladsimpaler wrote::edit: He's the dude who thinks that there was never animosity in Chaos, now everything makes sense (serious)

Say that again?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

nomsheep wrote:Seems a bit of a harsh blanket statement there.

He said Ward's Marine Codex toned down the Ultramarine love-in with a straight face, and called everyone who disagreed with him a 'neckbeard'. I think he's earned a blanket statement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vladsimpaler wrote::edit: He's the dude who thinks that there was never animosity in Chaos, now everything makes sense (serious)

Say that again?

Wait what?

Nom

I don't really mind BA or GK that much. Despite the bemoaning of some players, I don't think there as bad as people make them out to be (aside from a few things).

But his story telling is bitter. Terribly bitter.