Dangerous Terrain and Combat Resolution in Assault

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**jy2**

Simple question. Does models who die from dangerous terrain counts towards combat resolution in assault?

Say I charge a 10-man unit into dangerous terrain to assault another unit. 2 dies on the way in. Do they count towards morale at the end of combat?

**ToBeWilly**

jy2 wrote:Simple question. Does models who die from dangerous terrain counts towards combat resolution in assault?

Say I charge a 10-man unit into dangerous terrain to assault another unit. 2 dies on the way in. Do they count towards morale at the end of combat?

If they did, in fact, die (meaning, they were removed because of the dangerous terrain test) in the Assault Phase, then I would think yes, it does count towards Combat Resolution. If they died in the Movement Phase then no. they wouldn't count. But, if you lost 25% of the unit, in the Movement Phase, you would have to take a Morale Test.

**Lordhat**

Assault results are determined by "the number of unsaved wounds inflicted by each side." Are DT wounds inflicted by either opponent?

**ToBeWilly**

Lordhat wrote:Assault results are determined by "the number of unsaved wounds inflicted by each side." Are DT wounds inflicted by either opponent?

You may want to look at page 39 of the rulebook, under Determine Assault Results, very last sentence.

**Lordhat**

ToBeWilly wrote:
Lordhat wrote:Assault results are determined by "the number of unsaved wounds inflicted by each side." Are DT wounds inflicted by either opponent?

You may want to look at page 39 of the rulebook, under Determine Assault Results, very last sentence.

I repeat, are DT wounds cause by either opponent?

**yakface**

ToBeWilly wrote:
Lordhat wrote:Assault results are determined by "the number of unsaved wounds inflicted by each side." Are DT wounds inflicted by either opponent?

You may want to look at page 39 of the rulebook, under Determine Assault Results, very last sentence.

During the assault phase you move all assaulting units, then you make all defenders react moves.

After that you pick each combat and resolve it one at a time. It is at the end of each combat that you're totaling up wounds caused to determine combat results.

Therefore, wounds caused before a combat is picked to be fought would not be counted towards the resolution of that combat.

For example, if there are two separate combats being fought right next to each other (we'll call them combat X & combat Y), let's say you pick combat X to fight first. During that combat a Dreadnought is destroyed and explodes, with its explosion catching and killing some models in the nearby combat Y.

Now, when it comes to calculating combat resolution for combat X, you would not count the wounds inflicted in the other combat because the combat resolution rules only care about wounds caused on each 'side', which is consistently used in the rules to represent the two sides of an individual combat.

After combat X is completely resolved you'd then move onto fighting combat Y, when all the attacks are finished in that combat you'd then total up how many wounds were inflicted in that combat. Again, the wounds caused by the explosion from combat X would not be included because they were not caused in the current combat.

So in short, wounds caused by dangerous terrain in the assault phase would not count towards combat resolution because they are not wounds caused as a result of combat. Wounds can come from any source (such as exploding vehicles, for example) but they must occur while the combat is actually being fought to count.

**ToBeWilly**

@ Lordhat, I would suggest actually reading the last sentence of the Determine Assault results. It is quite clear, in my opinion.

"In rare cases certain models can cause wounds on themselves or their friends - obviously these wounds are added to the other side's total for working out who has won."

**Lordhat**

ToBeWilly wrote:@ Lordhat, I would suggest actually reading the last sentence of the Determine Assault results. It is quite clear, in my opinion.

"In rare cases certain models can cause wounds on themselves or their friends - obviously these wounds are added to the other side's total for working out who has won."

I did. I guess I was too obtuse. DT wounds are NOT cuased by either opponent (either on each other or on themselves). Also, what Yakface said.

**ToBeWilly**

So, you can still take a Morale Test in the Assault Phase, if you lost 25% of the models in a unit as a result of Dangerous Terrain, before you are even considered "Locked" in combat?

Edit: This is a serious question. Not trying to be ***holly.

**yakface**

ToBeWilly wrote:So, you can still take a Morale Test in the Assault Phase, if you lost 25% of the models in a unit as a result of Dangerous Terrain, before you are even considered "Locked" in combat?

No, the 25% casualty morale check doesn't occur until the end of the phase.

Technically speaking if you suffered 25% wounds from outside of the combat (by an exploding dreadnought in another combat or from dangerous terrain when charging) and you completely resolve the combat that same round you should be taking a test at the end of the phase but its just one of those cases that people tend to ignore because its a bit non-sensical.

**Lordhat**

No as you take Morale tests at the end of the phase. I never though about it, but this could lead to a situation where your unit suffers 25% casualties, on the way in, loses combat, flees at the end of combat, then automatically flees again at the very end of the phase due to the LD test forced by the DT test.

**ToBeWilly**

yakface wrote:No, the 25% casualty morale check doesn't occur until the end of the phase.

Technically speaking if you suffered 25% wounds from outside of the combat (by an exploding dreadnought in another combat or from dangerous terrain when charging) and you completely resolve the combat that same round you should be taking a test at the end of the phase but its just one of those cases that people tend to ignore because its a bit non-sensical.

Fair enough. I've always included those wounds into Combat Resolution, since there is no way to determine if the wounds were caused before the unit was locked in combat, unless it was the very first model.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lordhat wrote:No as you take Morale tests at the end of the phase. I never though about it, but this could lead to a situation where your unit suffers 25% casualties, on the way in, loses combat, flees at the end of combat, then automatically flees again at the very end of the phase due to the LD test forced by the DT test.

That's my point. It just seemed correct to include these wounds into Combat Resolution. Instead of the weird, you could win a combat, but still be made to take a Morale Test.

**yakface**

ToBeWilly wrote:
Fair enough. I've always included those wounds into Combat Resolution, since there is no way to determine if the wounds were caused before the unit was locked in combat, unless it was the very first model.

But as I pointed out there is a really easy way. Combat are actually resolved one at a time within the assault phase. So although you move charging and defending models first, each combat is then resolved fully one at a time. So you know precisely when a combat starts (when you pick it to fight the combat) and when it ends (when you determine combat results).

I understand that theoretically taking a morale check at the end of the phase is weird and that's why nobody does it. But the whole point of combat resolution is supposed to be which side inflicted more wounds than the other side in that particular combat.

**ToBeWilly**

After reading the rules again, it does, quite clearly say, wounds caused by close combat attacks, so, RAW I have no reason to do what I've been doing. Except, it just seemed to be intuitive. And, as we all know, that's not a good reason to do anything in this game. Learn something new all the time.