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Did a quick search for this but found nothing.

Can a FMC (e.g. A Bloodthirster) deep strike and then declare that they are Swooping in the same turn?

They obviously can't move any further in the movement phase because of the DS rules, but Swooping has other benefits (2D6 run, being hit on 6s) that would be handy in that initial turn.

I'd lean towards "no" because Swooping requires the model to move (p49), but deep strike forbids movement (p36).

Thoughts?

Given the specific movement requirements for Swooping, I don't see any way for it to interact with Deep Strike.

I'm not entirely sure that is correct. Not entirely sure it's wrong, either. There seems to be a conflict in the BRB and the CSM FAQ.

1) Reserves and their deployment is simply resolved at the "Start of your turn 2 / turn 3 / etc"

-Pg 124, right side, paragraph 5. "until all arriving units are on the table. The player can then proceed to move his other units as normal."

-Pg 36 under Deepstrike rules "Roll for arrival of all deepstriking units *as specified in the rules for Reserves and then deploy them as follows* " . . .




2) HOWEVER, this is in direct contradiction to..

-Pg 36 "In the movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further" *****

-CSM FAQ "Sorc in terminator armor cannot cast Warptime (at beginning of turn) because "The unit deepstrikes in the movement phase". ***


As a final point, on pg 49 it describes how FMCs must "choose" their movement mode in the turn they arrive from reserves. They just declare which mode. For models walking on from board edge, this is simple. For deepstrikers, it is apparently a bit ambiguous - but as most (possibly all?) FMCs possess the ability to arrive via Deepstrike, is this perhaps a RAI oversight?


*****Another potential argument is that the line on pg 36 of the BRB is not telling you the unit arrives in the movement phase, simply telling you that it may not then proceed to MOVE in the movement phase after having arrived via deepstrike at the start of the turn.

***And therefor ignoring the CSM FAQ since you usually don't want to apply specific codex FAQs as general rules.


Edit: Further points..

-Under changing flight mode, a FMC must declare which it is going to use at the start of *its move*. Not at the beginning of the movement phase, beginning of the turn or whatever. Even conventional wisdom that holds deepstrike in the movement phase usually considers it as a sort of pre-movement subphase. In this case I'd say it doesn't matter that he CAN'T move, just that his TURN to move comes AFTER arriving via deepstrike.

-Reiterating that FMCs can declare their mode when arriving from reserves. No if ands or buts about deepstrike one way or the other. Permissive ruleset, right? And hey, if I was a giant flying creature swooping down from the sky. . . well.. I'd be swooping. .

"If a flying monstrous creature is kept as Reserves then as soon as it enters play, you must declare whether it is in Swoop or Glide mode."

- But wait! More fun! Under Swooping. . . "It must move at least 12" and can move up to 24." Can't move after arriving from deepstrike.

The answer is clean yes. Pg 49, last sentence under Deployment say "...as Reserve then as soon as it enters play you must declare whether it is in Swoop or Glide".

Since Deep Striking units enter from reserve, pg 36, on Deep strike Arrival you have to declare if you are Swooping or not.

So Cheexsta, my Flyrant thanks you for finding a away to keep it alive on Deep Strike.

And I got ninjaed by Bone Blade

With my demons I have always declared my bloodthirster as swooping when entering play via deep strike. None of my opponents have taken issue with it. As barnowl says it just says declare the mode.

Boneblade wrote:
"If a flying monstrous creature is kept as Reserves then as soon as it enters play, you must declare whether it is in Swoop or Glide mode."

- But wait! More fun! Under Swooping. . . "It must move at least 12" and can move up to 24." Can't move after arriving from deepstrike.

Well, don't forget DS units count as having moved, so that would cover the [edit:]must move 12" minimum for DS, same as it does for Flyers without Hover that DS.This read is reinforced on pg 36 of the rules were in para. 7 it indicates that units have already moved some undisclosed distance. The wording there is not that the unit DS can not move, but "...can not move any further..."

Declaring what mode you are in does not alleviate the requirement to move 12"

If you enter from board edge and 'declare' you are swooping, you still need to move 12".

If you enter from DS and declare you are swooping, you still need to move 12". Since you can't; you have broken the rules, and cannot do that.

coredump wrote:Declaring what mode you are in does not alleviate the requirement to move 12"

If you enter from board edge and 'declare' you are swooping, you still need to move 12".

If you enter from DS and declare you are swooping, you still need to move 12". Since you can't; you have broken the rules, and cannot do that.

That's my line of reasoning, too. I think I'd better play it safe and not swoop until an FAQ says otherwise.

Cheexsta wrote:

coredump wrote:Declaring what mode you are in does not alleviate the requirement to move 12"

If you enter from board edge and 'declare' you are swooping, you still need to move 12".

If you enter from DS and declare you are swooping, you still need to move 12". Since you can't; you have broken the rules, and cannot do that.

That's my line of reasoning, too. I think I'd better play it safe and not swoop until an FAQ says otherwise.

This is how My friend and I have interpreted the rule as well.

I hope 4 days isn't enough to be considered necro'ing, but I didn't want to start another topic for a question that had been asked within the last week...

We extrapolated that when a vehicle deep strikes it counts as having moved at crusing speed (12").

When Veteran Vanguard deep strike they count as having used their jump packs for movement (12")

Ergo, the deep striking daemon flying monstrous creatures (and others I guess) count as having moved 12"

coredump wrote:

If you enter from DS and declare you are swooping, you still need to move 12". Since you can't; you have broken the rules, and cannot do that.

Isn't this reading the rules like a none thinking robot?

I don't mean to be rude, I just want to point out that maybe the rules in general shouldn't be read so squared.

In this case couldn't it be possible that the normal move which normally must be made by a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is thought to be made as it came from outside or above the table?

Chaospling wrote:

coredump wrote:

If you enter from DS and declare you are swooping, you still need to move 12". Since you can't; you have broken the rules, and cannot do that.

Isn't this reading the rules like a none thinking robot?

I don't mean to be rude, I just want to point out that maybe the rules in general shouldn't be read so squared.

In this case couldn't it be possible that the normal move which normally must be made by a Swooping Flying Monstrous Creature is thought to be made as it came from outside or above the table?

This.

At first my thought was: "Did these people even read the rulebook before they asked their question / replied to the thread?"

Now I'm thinking "Why do you people have to make this so difficult?"

It simply says when you entire via reserves, you decide which mode you want. It really is as simple as that. I know it's a new edition and everyone wants to find the loopholes.

The FAQ states:
"Q: Does a Flying Monstrous Creature that arrives via Deep Strike
count as arriving in Swoop mode? (p49)
A: Yes."

Therefore you are ALWAYS swooping if deep striking the FMC.

(I know this is an old thread, but it showed up as the top result for my google search, so I figured other people might end up here who still need an answer)

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.