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http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2012/07/26/40k-video-bat-rep-double-header-jy2-vs-frankie-and-reecius/

We’ve got a good one for you guys, Jy2 busts out his Daemon Flying Circus list against Frankie’s Dark Harliestar and then Reecius’ Sons of AnOrky.

By the ways, this is my list.


1500 Daemons

Kairos Fateweaver
Bloodthirster - Blessings of the Blood God, Unholy Might (Warlord)

5x Pink Horrors - Bolt, Changeling
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Pink Horrors - Bolt
5x Plaguebearers

Daemon Prince - 3+, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt, Breath of Chaos
Daemon Prince - 3+, Daemonic Flight, Mark of Tzeentch, Bolt, Breath of Chaos

1493

Good battle report.

Play for the objectives, well said. Congrats to Jy2 for winning against Frankie and congrats to Reecius for beating Jy2.

Despite nerfs to Waagh and furious charge, the Orks are in a good position. Without no-retreat saves, the Boyz can tar-pit units in assault. Relic with Nobz Bikers is definitely one-sided. Nobz Bikers are extremely resilient in this edition.

In some ways, the Relic mission will be like the Annihilation mission in 5th ed. Many armies don't have a counter or is durable enough unit to hold onto the relic indefinitely. Other armies do.

Daemon Flying circus is wacky. A lot of it depends on Fateweaver. Grounded flying Monstrous Creatures is more easier to deal with than Flying vehicles, assuming you play it as no more needing 6's to hit. Daemon flying circus has a tough time against infantry heavy lists and super powerful Deathstars.

Hey guys, I've not see the batrep yet (stupid firewall), may you link the list please?

Ok, after the battle, here is my overview of the 3 armies.


Harliestar Eldar

Can I call them Dark Deldar?

It's a tough combo to beat in a head-on fight....which is why you shouldn't fight it head-on. Go after the support units if possible and maybe leave 1 or 2 sacrificial units for the deldar deathstar to chew on. If only my luck wasn't so atrocious this game, I would have wiped out his troops and then profit. This list reminds me of Draigowing in last edition. It's a good list that will just beat-face against some opponents. However, it has got its limitations which a shrewd general can exploit if they have the tools in their army.


Nob Biker Orks

Orks put up a better fight than I had thought. Against Reece's army, I needed everything to go right. The right wave coming in (which I got) and then Fateweaver not getting grounded (uh oh). Had FW stayed on the air, my plan would have been to go after his nob bikers with all 4 FMC's, breath them, boon either the warboss or painboy (probably the painboy) and then smash them to bits with my FMC's, all the while under FW's protection. I think I could have been able to break the unit had my plan went off, however, FW getting grounded and then locked in combat just threw the plan out the window.

Overall, I think orks have become very good in this edition despite the lack of shooting. Ork mobs are just awesome now that they don't have to worry about No Retreat and those nob bikers are just killer. As a matter of fact, I feel that they are now a top-tier tournament army once again. I wouldn't be surprised if they start winning a lot of tournaments again.

Reece, you should bring your orks to the Golden Throne. Just leave your trukk at home (or in reserves) as it is an easy First Blood for your opponent every single time.


Flying Circus Daemons
I've played 5 games now with my daemons and in 4 of those games, I got my wrong wave coming in. Needless to say, I've lost more than I've won and it can be quite frustrating. My luck with my daemons has just been horrible so far.

But despite that, I've been having a lot of fun playing them. They aren't quite as dominating as most people on the net has been excitedly talking about. The trick is to fire multiple units at them in order to ground them. Almost every single game now, my FMC's have been grounded. It's really not that hard, as long as you have a unit to follow up and assault them once they've been grounded. And in all of my games, all my opponents have been able to do just that (tyranids, kroot-orks, deldar, nob bikers and jump angels). However, in all my games (except against Reece's nob bikers), I didn't get my strong half coming in. I feel that if all my FMC's come in together on T1 and without mishap, I can really dominate most opponents. Yes, a daemon flying circus build which is clicking on all 4-5 cyclinders is IMO a really hard army to play against.

Ty, JY2.

Can't wait to get back home and see the batrep.

Orks 1500pts
Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Warboss Bike, Klaw, Cybork, Squig 1 150
Warboss Bike, Klaw, Pole, Cybork, Squig 1 155
Farseer Jetbike, Doom, Runes of Warding 1 125

Troops
Nob Bikers Klaw x 2, Uge Choppa x 2, Pain Boy, Banner 10 605
Trukk Boyz Nob, Klaw, Eavy Armor, Pole, Trukk 13 157
Shoota Boyz B.Shoota x 2 30 190
Grots 11 40
Jetbikes S.Cannon 3 76

Elites

Fast Attack

Heavy Support

Fortification

Totals 69 1500

That's the exact list, been working REALLY well for me.

Note: the Jet Bike only has a S.Cannon because my unit is modeled with one, you don't need it at all, but it is useful at times.

So for sure a FMC can enter play with Deep Strike and count as Swooping?

I agree with your ruling for the Grounded debate, it's not spelled out but the intent is obvious to me. Educational reports as usual, thanks!

EDIT: Why do you guys say that Fateweaver has an unusual power weapon and all that? All MC's (and FMC's) are AP2 in close combat because of Smash even if they are not using Smash attacks.

@BladeWalker

Glad you liked it!

As for FW, he comes equiped with a Power Weapon (it is actually explicit in his rules) that causes ID. Some were making the argument that since he has a PW, and it is a staff, per RAW his weapon would give him +2 strength.

However, since his PW has unique rules (causes ID) it follows a different set of rules and wouldn't count as a power staff, therefore not granting +2 strength.

Confusing, right? Haha, but that is how we will rule it for our events, and I think the other TO's will, too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and yes, we can find nothing that says Deep Striking FMC's can not enter the game flying. It is pretty damn good!

Smash says all close combat attacks are counted as AP2 unless they are AP1, does that not make Soul Devourer AP2? A power weapon can still be AP2 if Smash or another rule makes it that way or am I crazy? It can be Unusual or anything else but it's AP2 because Smash makes it that way is my reasoning.

EDIT: Sorry but I wanted to add on, if you take a Tzeentch Prince he does not have any specific model or even a weapon in his hand so he is AP2 from Smash but if you take Soul Devourer for him he causes ID but goes to AP3? Seems wrong.

All monstrous creature attacks are resolved at AP 2. I'm pretty sure this would be true, regardless of the weapon used.

I'm not 100% sold on grounded FMC being hit on normal ballistic skill. RAW, they're still only hit on 6's (as you mentioned). I actually think this was their intention. I believe all shots during the shooting phase are supposed to happen at roughly the same time. I would argue that the FMC would either still be in the air or perhaps plummeting to the ground when the other shots are fired.

Nice reports! I'm dying to see your Tyranid list in action, Reecius!

Siphen said it, all MC attacks are resolved at AP2 unless they would be AP1.

@Siphen

Yeah, I agree it is really unclear. I think though that as they are "grounded" they are no longer in the air. We tend to follow RAW strictly here, and I can see the argument either way, but I believe that they are meant to no longer be in the air (as they take the hit from hitting the ground).

Not saying we're absolutely right on this one, but that is the interpretation we're going with until we see a really persuasive argument to the contrary.

And yeah, Nids are great this edition! Really having fun with them, and the list I have been playing I think can go the distance. Only certain MSU shooty lists scare me, but not nearly as much in previous editions.

I should have the rest of the models for it assembled in the next day or so (been proxying) and will for sure post it up once we do.

So far it as WALKED through every deathstar list without breaking a sweat, except the Dark Harliestar. That is a tougher fight, but the Nids still have the advantage. It works really well against Flyer lists too, and dominates scoring missions. I think it is going to be a tournament winner, just need to test it some more. Excited to show it to everyone! I love Nids and hope my theories about it being a winner hold true in further practice.

Ahhh cool, sorry got confused. I thought you were saying it was a AP3 Unusual Weapon, not sure where I got that from. You guys were just saying it doesn't get any bonuses based on being a staff since it has other abilities, got it.

Very interested to see your take on Nids in 6th.

Siphen wrote:All monstrous creature attacks are resolved at AP 2. I'm pretty sure this would be true, regardless of the weapon used.

I'm not 100% sold on grounded FMC being hit on normal ballistic skill. RAW, they're still only hit on 6's (as you mentioned). I actually think this was their intention. I believe all shots during the shooting phase are supposed to happen at roughly the same time. I would argue that the FMC would either still be in the air or perhaps plummeting to the ground when the other shots are fired.

Nice reports! I'm dying to see your Tyranid list in action, Reecius!

Honestly, I agree with this interpretation. However, we played the way we did for a couple of reasons:

- It's pretty broken if they are always hit on 6's with shooting, especially when playing against a shooty army. Now I actually don't mind playing like this, but only if my opponent feels that this is the correct interpretation as well. If he is at all ambivalent about it, then I'd rather go for the more conservative and restrictive interpretation.

- We are preparing for the Golden Throne tournament (and others for Reece). And the ruling for Grounded that we were using is going to be the one that will be used at the Golden Throne (and probably other tournaments as well).

Reecius wrote: And yeah, Nids are great this edition! Really having fun with them, and the list I have been playing I think can go the distance. Only certain MSU shooty lists scare me, but not nearly as much in previous editions.

I should have the rest of the models for it assembled in the next day or so (been proxying) and will for sure post it up once we do.

So far it as WALKED through every deathstar list without breaking a sweat, except the Dark Harliestar. That is a tougher fight, but the Nids still have the advantage. It works really well against Flyer lists too, and dominates scoring missions. I think it is going to be a tournament winner, just need to test it some more. Excited to show it to everyone! I love Nids and hope my theories about it being a winner hold true in further practice.

I don't quite have the confidence that you have here with your nids. I haven't touched my nids in a little while and probably won't until I've had my fill of necrons and daemons, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a solution against a build such as the necron air force. While I think nids can keep up with almost any other build out there, I think we will still have problems against several builds out there, including dark eldar and air force builds, due to our horrible shooting.

Honestly, if I were playing the necron air force, I don't see nids as having much of a chance of beating it.

Maybe that's a game we can test out in the future?

Yeah, that would be great! We actually have a Necron Air Force at the shop now, you could use ours if you wanted to.

The reason I think Nids will be OK against that list is simple: board control.

If you spread out all your little beasties, you leave no room for the Flyers to actually stop. They'll have to over fly your forces and do nothing. Now, this takes a lot of real estate to do, but a Gant farm list can pull it off. It doesn't work as well against a mixed arms army, but then, the bugs have something to attack, so it's OK.

Dark Eldar are still the worst match-up though, no doubt. Specifically Venom Spam, and if they have a Doomseer too, yikes. Doom+Poison weapons is brutal.

So far, my Nids are kicking serious butt, but we have only been able to play 4 games with them so far, so I may not enough breadth of experience against different opponents yet to really say for certain.

But at 1500, how much board control can you have? Unless you take 30-termagant units, you can't possibly stop all the flyers from coming in (maybe a couple, but not all). At higher points levels, it becomes more possible, but the trick then is to build an army with enough of a horde presence and still be balanced against the other army builds. Honestly, this is a riddle I haven't solved yet and just like in 5E, I don't think it is possible to solve. You just can't build a tyranid all-comer's list that can handle both flyer builds and ground builds as well.

Then again, I haven't fully investigated the possibilities of tyranids yet. I'm saving that for after I take a break from my crons, and I think it's going to be a fun challenge.

I agree that Tyranids are looking ace at the moment. Tervigons look to be the future, I think if you can get Iron Arm on a Tervigon that she can survive the Scythe Wing. DoomScythes are nasty, but I dont think Scythewing can handle the full amount of models a Tyranid Horde list can have. My "balanced" 2k list isnt even very hordey but starts off with over 90 models, and if I see Flyers Im going to start pumping them out turn 1. Now, if its Kill Points, then yes the Scythe Wing can absolutely Kill Tyranids, but otherwise Id think the Bugs can just put too many bodies to handle on an objective.

Im doing great with psychic Tyranids at the moment, but I havent yet played a non-Imperial Army, I can see DE being tough for sure, with allied Eldar.

And yes, more Tyranid Batreps! We demand them!

We'll definitely get those Nid reports up! I love bugs, and am very pleased to get more play time with them.

Ok, after the battle, here is my overview of the 3 armies.


Harliestar Eldar

Can I call them Dark Deldar?

It's a tough combo to beat in a head-on fight....which is why you shouldn't fight it head-on. Go after the support units if possible and maybe leave 1 or 2 sacrificial units for the deldar deathstar to chew on. If only my luck wasn't so atrocious this game, I would have wiped out his troops and then profit. This list reminds me of Draigowing in last edition. It's a good list that will just beat-face against some opponents. However, it has got its limitations which a shrewd general can exploit if they have the tools in their army.


Nob Biker Orks

Orks put up a better fight than I had thought. Against Reece's army, I needed everything to go right. The right wave coming in (which I got) and then Fateweaver not getting grounded (uh oh). Had FW stayed on the air, my plan would have been to go after his nob bikers with all 4 FMC's, breath them, boon either the warboss or painboy (probably the painboy) and then smash them to bits with my FMC's, all the while under FW's protection. I think I could have been able to break the unit had my plan went off, however, FW getting grounded and then locked in combat just threw the plan out the window.

Overall, I think orks have become very good in this edition despite the lack of shooting. Ork mobs are just awesome now that they don't have to worry about No Retreat and those nob bikers are just killer. As a matter of fact, I feel that they are now a top-tier tournament army once again. I wouldn't be surprised if they start winning a lot of tournaments again.

Reece, you should bring your orks to the Golden Throne. Just leave your trukk at home (or in reserves) as it is an easy First Blood for your opponent every single time.


Flying Circus Daemons
I've played 5 games now with my daemons and in 4 of those games, I got my wrong wave coming in. Needless to say, I've lost more than I've won and it can be quite frustrating. My luck with my daemons has just been horrible so far.

But despite that, I've been having a lot of fun playing them. They aren't quite as dominating as most people on the net has been excitedly talking about. The trick is to fire multiple units at them in order to ground them. Almost every single game now, my FMC's have been grounded. It's really not that hard, as long as you have a unit to follow up and assault them once they've been grounded. And in all of my games, all my opponents have been able to do just that (tyranids, kroot-orks, deldar, nob bikers and jump angels). However, in all my games (except against Reece's nob bikers), I didn't get my strong half coming in. I feel that if all my FMC's come in together on T1 and without mishap, I can really dominate most opponents. Yes, a daemon flying circus build which is clicking on all 4-5 cyclinders is IMO a really hard army to play against.

I agree with your analysis.

The Harliestar Eldar are a brutally powerful list, but a smart player can play around them. They are a good analog to Draigowing. They are harder to kill, but have more weaknesses as they are reliant upon psychic powers and cover to be at maximum durability, both of which can be mitigated.

It is a damn good army, no doubt, but it isn't unbeatable at all. I actually think just sticking a 1 or 2 characters in that unit is plenty.

The Nob Biker Orks are pretty damn awesome, but again, they have some weaknesses, too. Manticores can be a paint, and a very tough combat unit that deals lots of wounds can beat them in combat and run them down.

They are also weak to psychic powers, so you need to have psychic defense or see your big points investment wasted.

They are brutally tough though, and hit like a freight train. I think I will be bringing them to the Golden Throne, honestly. Haven't had time to assemble the Nids which I think are a better all around army.

And yeah, the Daemons are awesome! I think your list is too one-dimensional, a mix of units would be better, but a lot of folks are not going to know what to do against. it. We have Will here, one of the best Daemon players in the country, so we always know how to handle them. Ground FW, take him out, and the army folds. Just shoot all of your small arms at FW to make Space Chicken hit the deck, then pounce on him.

Any way to post the Harliestar list.
would love to try it !!

thanks
tyler

enjoyed those thanks

SpacePup1987 wrote:Any way to post the Harliestar list.
would love to try it !!

thanks
tyler

Doh! I overwrote his list when I did my analysis.

Here it is again.


Harliestar Eldar

Eldrad
Karandras
Vect (Attachement)

10x Harlequins - Shadowseer, Troupe Master, all Kisses

3x Guardian Jetbikes
3x Guardian Jetbikes
5x Kabalite Warriors - Venom (Attachement)

3x War Walkers - 2x Scatter Lasers
3x War Walkers - 2x Scatter Lasers