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So i have been enjoying my dakka orks but the soul of orks has shifted pretty drastically in my opinion, where we use to be just careless about CC and wanting to rush into CC everytime compared to the popular consensus of thinking before you react. I like these qualities but i can't help but feel almost powerless in assaults now with most armies, sure we have no more fearless wounds but with challenges and the amount of damage orks are now taking before an assualt i tend to see my horde getting wiped so easily now it actually saddens me...

I was looking at the old edition codex and think it honestly had some really great old ideas which would make us an incredibly viable army again for CC rather than having your nob challenged out of CC the whole game or smacked down by a simple power maul before he does anything to the unit.

For example i miss Skarboyz they were big ugly and dependable with that natural 4 strength in CC it would give orks a dependable scrapper once again rather than assualting a boyz squad and watching the majority of them and then be too weak to even the odds.

a Huge thing i think they need to bring back in weaponry choices in boyz squads NOT JUST big shootas and Rokkits. I am talking burnas, big choppas and other options too. just giving boyz burnaz in our troop squads would be benefical to GW cause they would be able to sell the gak out of burna boyz and it would at long last give the orks some options for cracking armor that isn't on bloody init 1!!!!! I feel like any moderate save reduces ork effectiveness too much if our damn 6+ saves can get to CC i want to get a reward out of it dang it not just struggle to kill marines some more or worse 3+ re-roll eldar shinnanegans...

I would love to see nob using power mauls it would actually make them decent challengers if they survive the initial strikes of the enemy and lets them become a savage beast if the enemy survives them to. Imagine a Nob vs something like a broodlord who didn't kill the nob suddenly being reduced to init 1 and the nob is able to strike again before his enemy this time from just his insane strength.

I'd love to see more dedicated transports or deepstriking options for orks since all we have is the STUPID Storm Boyz, The pts are too much and the save is too low i love the models and the fluff but they are just USELESS atm, I'd suggest either better armor, weaponry, pts or squad sizes

Komandos are the same issue here they need to be dangerous for their purpose and honestly i will never use them until another codex due to their issues

I know it's ... probably never going to happen... But I want a Squiggoth... i feel so worthless being one of the only armies without a MC it would make tank cracking so much easier for us it's not even funny because as good as a BW deffrolla is ... it's very unlikely to make it that close.

How about this:

Ork mobs may buy up 20 grotz to accompany the mob. Grotz are treated like normal member of the unit with few exceptions.

Everytime an ork suffer a wound he may allocate the wound to a grot 2" away (kinda like look out sir). Boyz allocate on 4+, nobz on 3+ and hq on 2+.

Grotz also do not take space when embarking a transport but when they do they take a dangerous terrain test to represent the being crammed into small compartmants were normal orks can't fit. Also every time when the transport takes a glancing or penetrating hit d3 grotz take a dangerous terrain test.

Each grot is 2pts and may be upgraded to an ammo runt for 1 point or as a grot orderly for 2 points. You don't have to upgrade every grot and you may mix different grots.

all grot models have same statline.

One big change I would make is +1 strength every ork. Boyz should be stronger then Imperial Guardsmen. I think this would help redirect tactics back to CC.

Another change I'd make is to bring back that old "mob up" rule that said fleeing ork units could join other units if they had a boss pole. I used to love the flow of the games more. Wave after wave of orks.

I liked the burnas as a troop option, rather then as their own unit. I'd like to see that come back. Of course if they brought the mob up rule back, they could leave burnas as their own units.

I'd be the first to admit that I really miss all the old ork wackiness, but to be fair it really slowed gaming sessions down with all those random rolls and scatters, and special charts to roll. I wish there was a middle ground besides always falling back on random die rolls to determine strength of something. I mean, the tractor beam gun that would pick up and shake a tank? Come on! How could be do without that?

No. Orks should be S3 T4. They always have been since 3rd (iirc), and their fantasy counterparts are also S3 T4 (iirc).

And their S3 isn't so much as them being as strong as IG, than them being slightly stronger than IG. The thing with the 10 point system is that it doesn't offer a lot of variation.

A single point of strength could mean all the difference between being able to knock someone out with a punch, to being able to crush his entire face in 1 hit.

I would bring back proper looted vehicles, give wierdboyz pyrokinesis and telekinesis, make flash gitz elites (really, why are they heavy! They shouldn't be there!)

Burnas could be an upgrade option for a nob. That way he may choose an AP3 power weapon, a AP2 2xS unwieldy power weapon, or just a weapon that increases his S by 2. That should give a bit of variety.

A squiggoth in a non-apoc ork army would be hilarious xD.

I agree, str3 is resonable and does not make the orks op, but wouldn't an ork be able to cave in an umie's head?

I really do miss the old looted vehicles, those were one of my favourite parts.

What if they brought back the older choppas? Turning terminators into chum with a save-hacker discouraged termi-spam and encouraged trying the very tactical -tactical marines. This would also defeat the draigowing with inta-win of a greentide. It might be best not to bring back those choppas, just because the orkz slaughtered a little too much.

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
I agree, str3 is resonable and does not make the orks op, but wouldn't an ork be able to cave in an umie's head?

I really do miss the old looted vehicles, those were one of my favourite parts.

What if they brought back the older choppas? Turning terminators into chum with a save-hacker discouraged termi-spam and encouraged trying the very tactical -tactical marines. This would also defeat the draigowing with inta-win of a greentide. It might be best not to bring back those choppas, just because the orkz slaughtered a little too much.

The old choppas would maybe be a bit much, but how about this:
Orks in Slugga Boyz mobs may replace their CCW with a Ork Choppa for (1, 2?) points each. Armour saves taken against wounds inflicted by an Ork Choppa are taken at an armour save value one worse than the models current armour (so a model with a 2+ armour save would pass it on a 3+, a model with a 3+ save would pass it on a 4+, etc. Note that if a model some how had a 1+ save, it would still only pass that save on a 2+).

 Da Kommizzar wrote:
I agree, str3 is resonable and does not make the orks op, but wouldn't an ork be able to cave in an umie's head?

I really do miss the old looted vehicles, those were one of my favourite parts.

What if they brought back the older choppas? Turning terminators into chum with a save-hacker discouraged termi-spam and encouraged trying the very tactical -tactical marines. This would also defeat the draigowing with inta-win of a greentide. It might be best not to bring back those choppas, just because the orkz slaughtered a little too much.

Only if he had a big axe. Sure, an uppercut could easily break a human's neck, but that's really different from breaking his entire skull.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegalPhantom wrote:


The old choppas would maybe be a bit much, but how about this:
Orks in Slugga Boyz mobs may replace their CCW with a Ork Choppa for (1, 2?) points each. Armour saves taken against wounds inflicted by an Ork Choppa are taken at an armour save value one worse than the models current armour (so a model with a 2+ armour save would pass it on a 3+, a model with a 3+ save would pass it on a 4+, etc. Note that if a model some how had a 1+ save, it would still only pass that save on a 2+).

Nah, too much like fantasy. 6th ed is already get a lot of flak.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

RegalPhantom wrote:


The old choppas would maybe be a bit much, but how about this:
Orks in Slugga Boyz mobs may replace their CCW with a Ork Choppa for (1, 2?) points each. Armour saves taken against wounds inflicted by an Ork Choppa are taken at an armour save value one worse than the models current armour (so a model with a 2+ armour save would pass it on a 3+, a model with a 3+ save would pass it on a 4+, etc. Note that if a model some how had a 1+ save, it would still only pass that save on a 2+).

Nah, too much like fantasy. 6th ed is already get a lot of flak.

How about that every armor save that is passed on a dice roll of 6 must be rerolled?

eg an oomie with 3+ armor save rolls 2, 5, 3, 6, 4. He fails 1 save and must reroll 1 which he might also fail.

 illuknisaa wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

RegalPhantom wrote:


The old choppas would maybe be a bit much, but how about this:
Orks in Slugga Boyz mobs may replace their CCW with a Ork Choppa for (1, 2?) points each. Armour saves taken against wounds inflicted by an Ork Choppa are taken at an armour save value one worse than the models current armour (so a model with a 2+ armour save would pass it on a 3+, a model with a 3+ save would pass it on a 4+, etc. Note that if a model some how had a 1+ save, it would still only pass that save on a 2+).

Nah, too much like fantasy. 6th ed is already get a lot of flak.

How about that every armor save that is passed on a dice roll of 6 must be rerolled?

eg an oomie with 3+ armor save rolls 2, 5, 3, 6, 4. He fails 1 save and must reroll 1 which he might also fail.

Yeah, that could work.
Maybe a reroll of a 5 and 6 for the big choppa, since its bigga?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
*snip*
Yeah, that could work.
Maybe a roll of a 5 and 6 for the big choppa, since its bigga?

I was thinking the same thing.

I'm gonna send a note in my own direction; search the PR for "working on orks" and you'll see I've actually touched on a lot of the content required to 'bring orks back'.

Troops: 1 per 10 options

* Burna options (cheaper than 15 pts a pop they aren't termi banes after all anymore...)
* Big choppas (cause why can't boyz get these pretty little things if theya re so god damn cheap)
* better Stikk bomb options (So boyz can deal with dreddys... if not bo biggie just a suggestion)


Troops: Nob Options

Power maul (We need a tool that ISN"T CRAP in a duel)
Power klaw of course
Big choppa of course
Burna
Tankhammers (feels like in ork society they could get it since nobz get the best of everything)
5+ base save
4+ eavy armor Purchasable
3+ dead 'ard armor
5+ invul cybork body
boss pole
Big shoota
Rokkit Launcha
Twin linked shoota

Troop options: Dedicated Transports
Trukk = less pts due to how fast it is destroyed in a now shooting heavy game + revised ramshackle maybe?
looted wagon = not able to take boomgun, more options than just skorcha and big shootas + rokkits (maybe grotzookas, kannons or the like)
Rok bombardment = deep striking artillery, you plant a large blast template anywhere on the field and orks are able to disembark from it like it were a closed topped vehicle. If the large blast hits enemies it deals something like a strength 6 ap - no cover save attack. If orks aren't able to deploy out of roks they are considered destroyed where they stand 15 orks are allowed in a rok, once rock is used it counts as destroyed for purposes of first blood ect.

I do not play Orks (i played in second ed though, then took long 40k hiatus). I hate how the codex is layed out like eldar, into specialized/compartmentalized units.

I think you should be able to mob up most units during deployment. Make a new special rules that is dished out to certain codex entries call "Join the Mob".

Through this additional special rule, Boys, tank bustas, burnas, gretchin and nobs should all be allowed to "mob up" in any combination of the controlling player's choice, during deployment. As completely functional units they could embark transports as such, etc. Other more specialized units, such as komandos, flash gits, lootas, vehicle entries, [the jump pack boys] etc., should not have this special rule.

A move in this simple direction would really bring the practical flavor of the orks back to the table top for me.

 Deuce11 wrote:


Through this additional special rule, Boys, tank bustas, burnas, gretchin and nobs should all be allowed to "mob up" in any combination of the controlling player's choice, during deployment. As completely functional units they could embark transports as such, etc. Other more specialized units, such as komandos, flash gits, lootas, vehicle entries, [the jump pack boys] etc., should not have this special rule.

A move in this simple direction would really bring the practical flavor of the orks back to the table top for me.

The old Ork Codex had this flavor. It had an army rule that allowed a nob with a boss pole to gather in fleeing orc units to make his mob bigger. So the army was basically huge blocks of fodder boyz followed by more specialized units that would catch the fleeing boyz, mob them into their units and continue forward. That really captured that "Green Tide" flavor. By the end you would have units with all kinds of baloney in them. Oh and they were fearless as long as you could roll lower then the mob size.

Here's an idea to help vehicles. How bout an upgrade to increase a transports troop capacity? like "Dubble Dekka"- would increase capacity by 5. Even if trukks had a troop capacity of 15, it would really help them. I know one problem with trukks is after you face the explosion, then the overwatch, then the higher initiative, your trukk boyz are good for only one assault- if they survive all that...and I'm a little nervous charging anything more the 5 marines with a trukk full of boyz. Being able to take more boyz in a trukk, may help.

Didn't armor plating for ork vehicles give a 6+ invuln save in the old codex? That was always a fun spoiler.

 Big Mek Wurrzog wrote:


5+ base save
4+ eavy armor Purchasable
3+ dead 'ard armor
5+ invul cybork body

i like the idea of dead 'ard armor, but i think ork armor should still be a 6+ and just have 5+ be "Gooda' armor"

also, why the changing with the big choppa? whats wrong with the +2 S it gives?

Big choppas should be AP 3.

 Deuce11 wrote:
Big choppas should be AP 3.

Any reason in particular? Orks have power klaws for smashing through armour. Honestly big choppas are fine, but if you want initiative power weapons (due to furious charge changes most things are hitting you first anyway) have some third option besides big choppas and power klaws, perhaps something akin to a power lance (AP 3, +1 (maybe +2 since they are Orks) strength on the charge, and AP 4, and user strength when not charging).

Buttons wrote:

 Deuce11 wrote:
Big choppas should be AP 3.

Any reason in particular? Orks have power klaws for smashing through armour. Honestly big choppas are fine, but if you want initiative power weapons (due to furious charge changes most things are hitting you first anyway) have some third option besides big choppas and power klaws, perhaps something akin to a power lance (AP 3, +1 (maybe +2 since they are Orks) strength on the charge, and AP 4, and user strength when not charging).

To make them relevant.

FC was nerfed in 6th.

 Deuce11 wrote:

Buttons wrote:

 Deuce11 wrote:
Big choppas should be AP 3.

Any reason in particular? Orks have power klaws for smashing through armour. Honestly big choppas are fine, but if you want initiative power weapons (due to furious charge changes most things are hitting you first anyway) have some third option besides big choppas and power klaws, perhaps something akin to a power lance (AP 3, +1 (maybe +2 since they are Orks) strength on the charge, and AP 4, and user strength when not charging).

To make them relevant.

FC was nerfed in 6th.

Than fix Orks by putting back what FC removed, for example, just give them +1 initiative since FC no longer gives +1 initiative.

They already have an AP3 power weapon. They are called burnas. Big Choppas don't need it.

1. Choppas should gain rending when used by an assaulting ork on waaagh turn.

This would make slugga & choppa orks potentially appealing game-wise compared to shoota boyz which is not the case currently.

It would be a nice one-use bonus that could potentially make a mass assault by choppa orks ferocious (as it should be), but would be balanced out by overwatch and random charge distances, etc. Shootas would continue to be aesome, but choppy greentide lists could be attempted as well.

It would also feed into the fluff of th green tide and ork savagery under the waagh.

I think it would be a flavorful change.

2. Include an entry for a proppa orky battletank that could appropriately represent a looted russ type vehicle or similar. The looted wagon is good for things like basalisks and hellhounds, but fail to appropriately represent things like looted russ tanks, etc.

3. Squiggoth rules

1) No. God no. Nonono. This goes beyond a nice one-use bonus; this goes into the far realm where madness and darkness lay. Please understand the math, and more importantly, the psychology behind rending before proposing anything with it.

Then look at the shred rule and realize that it's probably closer to what you mean by 'a flavorful change' - and realize that even it would be super op simply in weight of numbers.

Seriously, roll some dice on 120 points of orks with rending against anything Rear-AV12 or less, any toughness, any points. Go ahead. I'll wait.

More importantly, ask a friend to sit on the other side of those dice for half an hour of rolling. Ask them IF IT WAS FUN. I'll give you a spoiler (It wasn't.)

Yeah, rending is a horrible idea. A horde army should not have that ability.
Why is it that everyone's solution to something is to stick rending on it? That's not a fix.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, rending is a horrible idea. A horde army should not have that ability.
Why is it that everyone's solution to something is to stick rending on it? That's not a fix.

I/m still waiting for you to post your own "non-horrible" ideas...

Point being right now nobody fields choppa boyz. It is shootas or nothing. Thread after thread has lamented the death of ccw oriented boyz armies/mobz, etc. (go look I'll wait).

Lots of shooting (even bs2 shooting) supposedly trumps ccw in this edition, especially when you consider overwatch, etc.

The humble choppa boy SHOULD be given something that makes him at least AS desirable of an option as a shoota boy, and tbh based upon fluff/army theme he should probably be MORE desirable in some way.

If a horde of orks bum rushes you (and you let it happen, because after all we have been told over and over that the assault army is dead, that random charges have neutered orks, that overwatch is king,etc., etc.) then you SHOULD have the potential to get hacked to ribbons...


I eagerly await your many alternative suggestions...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegalPhantom wrote:
Orks in Slugga Boyz mobs may replace their CCW with a Ork Choppa for (1, 2?) points each.

I dont want to see boyz get any more expensive.

I think tying some sort of built in one-shot bonus(es) to beef up orks on waaagh turn is the way to go and rewards those who build a proper green tide t maximize it's effect; a very fitting thing given ork fluff, etc.

 CT GAMER wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, rending is a horrible idea. A horde army should not have that ability.
Why is it that everyone's solution to something is to stick rending on it? That's not a fix.

I/m still waiting for you to post your own "non-horrible" ideas...

Point being right now nobody fields choppa boyz. It is shootas or nothing. Thread after thread has lamented the death of ccw oriented boyz armies/mobz, etc. (go look I'll wait).

Lots of shooting (even bs2 shooting) supposedly trumps ccw in this edition, especially when you consider overwatch, etc.

The humble choppa boy SHOULD be given something that makes him at least AS desirable of an option as a shoota boy, and tbh based upon fluff/army theme he should probably be MORE desirable in some way.

If a horde of orks bum rushes you (and you let it happen, because after all we have been told over and over that the assault army is dead, that random charges have neutered orks, that overwatch is king,etc., etc.) then you SHOULD have the potential to get hacked to ribbons...


I eagerly await your many alternative suggestions...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

RegalPhantom wrote:
Orks in Slugga Boyz mobs may replace their CCW with a Ork Choppa for (1, 2?) points each.

I dont want to see boyz get any more expensive.

I think tying some sort of built in one-shot bonus(es) to beef up orks on waaagh turn is the way to go and rewards those who build a proper green tide t maximize it's effect; a very fitting thing given ork fluff, etc.

This is "wrong" thinking. You suggested an idea, and we told you not only WHY it was bad, but HOW. We also told you how to test for yourself to see that it would not be fun or balanced in any way.

If you want to add something to vanillaboyz, it's your responsibility to do this. If you want suggestions for how to do it, it's your responsibility to ask for them with the intent of analyzing them objectively and on their own merit, instead of with bias toward the poster and your own previous ideas.

Case in point: The way I'm updating Orks is giving vanillaboyz the ability to run, and then charge, and still retain fleet. I feel it more than makes up for the lack of shooting, and the lack of +1I on the charge.

chrisrawr wrote:

Case in point: The way I'm updating Orks is giving vanillaboyz the ability to run, and then charge, and still retain fleet. I feel it more than makes up for the lack of shooting, and the lack of +1I on the charge.

makes them too much like gaunts. orks shouldnt be about speed, they should be about crumping stuff once they manage to get there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CT GAMER wrote:

chrisrawr wrote:

Case in point: The way I'm updating Orks is giving vanillaboyz the ability to run, and then charge, and still retain fleet. I feel it more than makes up for the lack of shooting, and the lack of +1I on the charge.

makes them too much like gaunts. orks shouldnt be about speed, they should be about crumping stuff once they manage to get there.

If done right the enemy should not ever want to get into cc with hordes of orks because it SHOULD be a death wish (unless you are uber-elite cc fighters).

The fact that orks might be nasty in mass is the point: they should be.

Give Trukks and maybe Battlewagons the Exhaust Cloud special rule.

Dr. What wrote:
Give Trukks and maybe Battlewagons the Exhaust Cloud special rule.

My guess is this would be seen as having too much overlap with the KFF.

Not everyone takes a KFF.

 the_ferrett wrote:
Not everyone takes a KFF.

And nobody would if all your vehicles got a similar built-in ability...

Gw isnt usually in the buisness of making models that they may already not sell a ton of even less desirable by changing other units to steal their thunder.