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The undead are cool, but seeing that you're planning to do fishmens, a chtulu race and insectoid, I think they coul;d have wait :p

I really like the wolf-rat rider, look lethal and filthy.

Hi Kaine something that might be worth considering for the starter set pledges would be allowing people to choose just goblins or zombies, ie two boxes rather than being prescriptive ans forcing obe of each

Yeah I thought exactly that. I think I will change it. It was focused at people playing our game but there is no middle ground for other buyers. Plus it would then fit in with the other pledges. The only thing to remember is that miniature choices must be in multiples of 6 as they come 6 to a half sprue.

I like the look of the goblins. I look forward to this campaign.

I like that Lizardman concept art, and look forward to see what gets offered for them!

And that giant armored goblin - nice!

If you're offering early birds you've got to be VERY careful of having them on multiple levels,

backers may well grab one of each (on separate KS accounts) and then decide later on which one to keep leading to a drop in pledge amount and backer number

this drop may then scare away folk who are not terribly committed to the KS leading to further drops and kicking the project into a downward spiral that can be very hard to recover from without throwing a lot of free stuff at backers

(check out Mars Attacks from Mantic for a good example of this)

so I'd advise being very careful about the total number/value of early birds out there, and possibly limiting them to your 'sweetspot' level

Very good advice. I will have a look into this. I think it would be ok for the very big pledge level like 2k and the 5k ones we have planned. Maybe I should just do the early bird on the starter set?

I'd say just have EB on the starter (or whatever you think/hope will be the most popular pledge),

for the really big pledge levels you hopefully have enough added value built in that they should 'sell' to those interested anyway

Will the Skulk be resin or metal?

There is a thing that needs clarification and it's connected with the game system and rules that will accompany the models. If I didn't understood wrongly it is going to be a skirmish game with the miniatures on round bases. Therefore how big a "normal" army would be. How many models? By "normal" I mean a size that the game will be based on. A skirmish game would not need theoretically more than 50 models maximum for each army/warband. Otherwise wouldn't be described as skirmish.

Of course it would be possible to use the models for other games but I would like to know what the needs of your game will be, as I would be interested in playing it and delve into the Underdeep world

I asked the same question before, but I think the answer is obvious for why one would need all these models. You don't! This is simply done in order to justify the large number of miniatures provided and cover the costs Renedra is going to charge in order to make this happen. I've already asked 3 times, this is the fourth, what the funding goal of this project will be, but it has been dodged succesfully till now.
The fact is I am/was (haven't decided yet) still very interested in this till today, after the announcement from Shieldwolf and their contemporaneous work and them painting goblin sculpts (I don't think I've ever seen something like this before happen ever), it's a divided choice whether they'll choose to back this project or wait for the competition to produce their own.
Personally I hope it works well for both!

The game will be scaleable and therefore it could be played with as many as 100 models. The core game will be much like GW's LOTR in size, anywhere from 20-70 m odels would probably be the norm. We have played m ost of the play tests with around 50 models. Usually somewhere between 30-50 Minions and a scattering of Champions, Brutes and of course the Overlord.

The Starter Pack pledge will work for our game although for larger games (and the rules will work at a larger scale) the larger pledges will work for people who want to purchase more than one faction as all the pledges can be split.

Of course there is also other gaming systmes and roleplaying gamws for which the models can be used. We are not niave enough to think we can fund this KS based solely on our own game. We know that the huge amount of mass combat gamers and roleplayers would always be a major target of our KS.

As we have always said our models are for the gaming community at large and we support their use in any game system.


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To answer Siros question I could not give you a figure before because talks were ongoing with Renedra about the best way to handle the KS. Now we have met with Renedra again and discussed what we can manufacture in the first instance I can give an exact amount for the KS. In order to cover all of Renedra's manufacturing costs and the scultpors rates for sculpting the entire frame we wiell be looking at Kickstarter target of £80,000.

This would mean that we would be able to offer both of the boxed sets at the same time and not just one which would limit the appeal to just people who wanted Goblins. The original idea was just to do the Goblin KS on its own with Hobgoblins and Bugbears as well. This meant that we would be looking at roughly £65k just to get this sprue done. I think by offering both boxed sets together we will appeal to a larger potenital pledger base.

I love the Shieldwold Orcs and I also wish them luck in regard to their goblins. The concept art was very good but does confirm to the more usually accepted concept for the Goblins. Our goblins are very different and therefore I am sure there is space for both of our products.

I will confirm at this point that the target is not unrealistic and doesnt provide us with huge amounts of profit. It allows us to make and manufacture the models required as well leaving a little for us to manufacture additional boxed sets to sell after the KS.

The total has been based entirely on the huge cost of manufacturing plastic miniatures to the quality we require and I hope our customers understand this. We know its a lot but we feel the potential rewards plus our awesome stretchgoals would make this a rewarding KS.

Kaine Larson wrote:

The Starter Pack pledge will work for our game although for larger games (and the rules will work at a larger scale) the larger pledges will work for people who want to purchase more than one faction as all the pledges can be split.

I didn't realize this!

My pledge just went up by quite a bit, I think!

Kaine Larson wrote:
The game will be scaleable and therefore it could be played with as many as 100 models. The core game will be much like GW's LOTR in size, anywhere from 20-70 models would probably be the norm. We have played most of the play tests with around 50 models. Usually somewhere between 30-50 Minions and a scattering of Champions, Brutes and of course the Overlord.

Thanks for this clarification Kaine!

This project of Minion Minis was mentioned in one of the messages we received in our Facebook page. I must admit we don't really have time to follow much of what is happening around us, we are too busy working on our game. From waht I've seen your goblins look really nice and different Kaine and we too wish you success in creating them, this comes from the heart.
Also, from our experience Renedra is a great choice and I'm sure the final product will be very nice. :-)

Kaine Larson wrote:
Wonderfully productive meeting today with the friendly folks at Renedra. I can now confirm the Kickstarter basic funding target will include both the Goblin boxed set and the zombie boxed set. The first stretchgoal will see the addition of a command sprue for both factions. Beyond this will be a host of both free and purchased addon stretch goals. The final figures for the KS are not 100% finalised yet but will be manageable. We went with Renedra because their quality is unsurpassed and I wanted the figures to be of the highest quality possible. This does not come cheap but I am sure you would agree that quality had to be the ultimate goal. To clarify we are concentrating solely on the basic figures of the range in plastic now. The hobgoblins, bugbears, flesh golem and zombie hulk will be metal and resin stretchgoals. For those Lizardkin fans amongst you (and i know there are a few of you) the Lizardkin boxed set will be a later stretchgoal. Due to the enormous demand and hugely detailed work that Renedra do there wi be a 12 month wait before delivery of these models although we will aim to shorten this if possible. I hope this gives you a bit more information about where the KS is heading. Any questions?

Sounds good, and good that you're upfront about it. Make sure that you pad your fulfilment time to keep it realistic. If Renedra says 12 months, make sure you add on the month it takes for you to get the money from Kickstarter, time for sculpting to be completed, time for you to pack the eventual orders, a month or two for gak-happens and a month and a half for the non-productive time that is Chinese New Year.


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Sirio wrote:
If he replaces the heads of the goblins like the GW ones, he'll lose all the originality (which is what has made me like this, and I'm sure a lot of other people too). He'd also lose al credibility when his artwork has nothing to do with the final product.

Very disappointed about the 10 figures becoming 6 figures per sprue, goblins are very small and it's not like you can have different torsos and legs, so unless I'm wrong and torsos+legs are separate modular pieces that is downgrading the featured sprue quite a bit from what you had said initially.

On the other hand free shipping for USA and E.U. sounds very nice, glad you are considering this especially for people who would like a lot of goblins (and zombies maybe).

6 figures per sprue isn't necessarily a downgrade - it depends on how many you end up with in the end. You might now end up with 12 or 24 in a retail box instead of 10 or 20 (or 18). I'm sure Kaine can confirm one way or another.

I'm also wanting to know what's going to happen with Oceanic/RoW shipping. I know a lot of UK retailers use the non-Eurozone "VAT" to cover most of shipping to RoW locations on retail purchases, but Mantic manages to provide decently-priced courier shipping. I'm hoping that we won't simply be an afterthought.


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Kaine Larson wrote:

The pledge levels will allow the following:

£1 - Thanks
£10 Goblin Skulk and access to the addon store (lots of goodies to be had in here)
£24 - 24 plastic miniatures, plus the Goblin Skulk model.
£60 - EB Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.83 per model) - Limited to 600
£70 - Starter Set - 36 Goblins and 36 Zombies and Skulk. Qualify for free addons. (0.97 per model)
£90 - Warband - 108 plastic miniatures and Skulk. (0.83 per model)
£110 - Battleforce - 144 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.76 per model)
£120 - Horde - 192 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.62 per model) - Limited to 600
£200 - 3-UP Frenzy - 216 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk and three of our 3 UP models on display bases. - Limited to 200.
£200 - SWARM - 360 plastic models of your choice plus Skulk (0.55 per model), for those who want to build a really big army! - Limited to 200

You need to fix these. Over-limiting sets is not a good thing, you'll just encourage camping.

Based on these, I'd be camping a £200 - SWARM and a £120 - Horde - and dropping one at the end of the campaign. Being "limited" to 600 sets, you may as well just drop the Battleforce level entirely. Even Warband ends up being a bit of a joke in comparison. Having your highest-number pledge level - the "build a big army" set - limited at all (and worse - to 200) is stupid. Especially when these big sets are going to make getting larger chunks of funding easier. You should instead be encouraging people to upgrade to Horde and SWARM - including via the pledge manager, post-campaign.

Despite the enthusiasm here, and ScarletSquig's over-enthusiasm earlier on, we really don't know if this campaign will do gangbusters or simply decently (or even badly). There are no humans or good races, which (despite what some here say) isn't a good thing for sales. I know people who will only play good races - I'm not one of them, obviously , but they're out there. It's probably going to limit your earnings in this campaign as well, so you can probably safely forget getting half a million (dollars, not quid). Not I'm not asking you to change it - just stating facts. But the last thing you need is overly-optimistic limited-pledge numbers kicking your arse with backsliding at the end (or worse - the middle) of the campaign when people drop one or the other of their camped pledges. Ask Mantic about that from DeadZone and Mars Attacks.

Games and Gears that had 1000 "limited" sets available for one board, but only 100 for two boards and 45 for three. Guess which one sold out and which one had 600 sets left? Shame, since they surely lost a TON of business on the 2-board sets, since they expected people to pony up an extra 50% for an additional board. Result? I bought three with 2 accounts, though a lot of people wouldn't bother at all.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554355176/games-and-gears-battle-boards

They also thought that their higher-priced add-ons - resin scenery, overlays, etc would be a great way to supplement their KS funding. Kind of fits your resin add-on models criteria. They were very disappointed when many people just stuck to boards. Lots of KS messages imploring people to tell their friends, and if everyone just bought another £10 resin add-on thing we could meet this stretch or that. The add-ons are nice, but they're not why we - or you - are here. I'm sure your resins will be very nice, but I can buy awesome resins from anywhere now and have them delivered quickly. Plastic goblins or zombies that look like this? Not so many choices - especially for these prices.

Kaine Larson wrote:
I wasn't aware you cod change the EB levels once the KS had started, that's good news. I think perhaps putting swarm up to 300 and dropping the 3ups down to 100 would work better.

Once a project has started, you can't alter a pledge level if someone has pledged to it. You can cap the pledge level, so no one else can pledge to it.

You can also add new pledge levels at any time.

Azazelx, thank you for your information. It is difficult for me as I have been given lots of conflicting advice in regard to pledge levels. I am thinking if having Earlybirds on the starter set and the swarm pledges only. Making them 600 a piece. If the command sprues are funded they are free to every pledger who has at least four sprues and will be given away at a ratio of 1:4. It seems this multiple account pledging can be an issue but is difficult to avoid.

Not only can can you change any EB pledge after the campaign has launched, you can change EVERY pledge level there is. Be careful that noone has pledged however, if a single pledge is done then you cannot do that any longer and it might cause you a lot of damage.
I'll agree with the EBs, I too use two accounts and decide what's more conveneient for me two or three days before it ends.
I would have liked very much the free shipping but 10 pounds for international shipping is also very reasonbale.

Kaine Larson wrote:
Azazelx, thank you for your information. It is difficult for me as I have been given lots of conflicting advice in regard to pledge levels. I am thinking if having Earlybirds on the starter set and the swarm pledges only. Making them 600 a piece. If the command sprues are funded they are free to every pledger who has at least four sprues and will be given away at a ratio of 1:4. It seems this multiple account pledging can be an issue but is difficult to avoid.

Have early birds on the base box set/$100 type level. I see no point in having any limits on Swarm, and an EB of 600 units is silly - you're not Zombicide, and the 246 unsold "limited" Swarm spots will look bad for new pledgers.


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I only use 2 accounts (my wife's actually) when there's a compelling reason to - either because the creator is fething with us (G&G, Empress) or when there's compelling reasons to camp one or another pledge levels (some of the semi-recent Mantic campaigns)

I have posted the finished Goblin Skulk along with a scale comparison for you.







This miniature, just to confirm, will be free to all pledges from the Boxed Set 24 miniature pledge and above.

2cm is tiny, isn't it?

What size are the Undead and Lizardmen going to be?

I love the top 200 pound Swarm deal, so I hope you decide to keep it regardless of whether or not it is limited. However, because it looks like such a good deal, I wasn't sure if that's why you were limiting it to a certain quantity. If you're able to sell at that price no problem due to the quantity / it being a large pledge, then making it unlimited would make me very happy.

Basically, just don't take away options you are planning on having! Having less pledge levels that are "limited" can be both good and bad- personally, I think it's totally fine to have multiple levels that are limited. Creature Caster, for instance, did this for bronze and silver and gold levels- and it worked out totally, 100% fine.

Most of the goblins are 22mm to the eyeline. He is a bit shorter as he is stooping. They are almost exactly as tall as GW's goblins, their Night Goblin plastics are in fact a little smaller.

Ninja'ed you above, Kaine. And yeah, that looks like plenty tall for a goblin, to me.

RiTides - I am keeping the Horde deal and just making it unlimited! I have taken the advice that a fgew folks have given and limited the early birds to the starter sets and swarm deals.

 RiTides wrote:
Ninja'ed you above, Kaine. And yeah, that looks like plenty tall for a goblin, to me.

Good for you?

I wasn't aware all goblins were weedly shrimps, but it is good to know that these will be!

Now I'm really hoping for Lizardmen...

Not as much as I am! If they fund the KS would have gone amazingly well!

EDIT: Never mind. Hadn't refreshed the page recently...

I know I've posted this before but this post corresponds with a post title change.

PREFUNDIA PAGE: http://prefundia.com/projects/view/minion-miniatures-30mm-plastic-fantasy-miniatures-goblins-and-zombies/2241/

We want as many peopel to see this page as we can!!

Also there are now pics of the new Goblin render on our facebook page:

THESE ARE ONLY WIP SHOTS!!!