In the Future, All Space Marines Will Be Warhammer 40K Space Marines

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**Lanceradvanced**

This drifted across my screen today..

M. C. A. Hogarth (haikujaguar) wrote...

"In mid-December, Games Workshop told Amazon that I’d infringed on the trademark they’ve claimed for the term “space marine” by titling my original fiction novel Spots the Space Marine. In response, Amazon blocked the e-book from sale [original post and update]. Since then, I’ve been in discussion with Games Workshop, and following their responses, with several lawyers."

"In their last email to me, Games Workshop stated that they believe that their recent entrée into the e-book market gives them the common law trademark for the term “space marine” in all formats. If they choose to proceed on that belief, science fiction will lose a term that’s been a part of its canon since its inception. Space marines were around long before Games Workshop. But if GW has their way, in the future, no one will be able to use the term “space marine” without it referring to the space marines of the Warhammer 40K universe."

More at http://haikujaguar.livejournal.com/1208235.html

**BlapBlapBlap**

Wait wat.

**daedalus**

It's a trademark. Not sure about UK law, but US law, you have to proactively defend it, or you risk losing it.

It's asinine, but then again, the law is asinine.

**BlapBlapBlap**

Next week - Games Workshop attacks Farmer's Union for unlawfully using 'Boltguns' on livestock.

**pretre**

Didn't we already do this thread to death once?

**xole**

pretre wrote:
Didn't we already do this thread to death once?

That hasn't stopped any other topic from being repeated over and over.

**Hordini**

daedalus wrote:
It's a trademark. Not sure about UK law, but US law, you have to proactively defend it, or you risk losing it.

It's asinine, but then again, the law is asinine.

It's a trademark, but that doesn't mean you can't use the word. Trademarks are very specific and if you're not referring to specific Games Workshop "Space Marines" it shouldn't matter. This is GW's bully tactics at work. Just because their lawyers are trying to flex their muscles doesn't mean "Spots the Space Marine" is actually infringing on their trademark. As far as I know, plenty of other works before "Spots the Space Marine" use the term "space marine" to refer to non-GW space marines and that doesn't mean that those works are suddenly retroactively infringing on GW's trademark.

**Lanceradvanced**

Looks like this one may have gone nuclear....

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/02/06/space-marines-and-the-battle-of-tradem-ark/

**d3m01iti0n**

Pretty sure DooMguy is still a "Space Marine". And that game was a definitely a big nod to 40K.

**pretre**

Lanceradvanced wrote:
Looks like this one may have gone nuclear....

Not sure how that makes it nuclear. It is just a blog talking about the same issue.

**Ouze**

pretre wrote:
Didn't we already do this thread to death once?

Indeed, this is taking up valuable space that could be occupied by yet another gun thread.

/snicker

**d3m01iti0n**

I only skimmed the original thread, but this is pretty lame. I can understand going after a company who blatantly rips you off for bits or whatever...but an independant writer? Who is probably relying on their book for income? Who probably doesnt know a thing about 40K? Absolute bs to me.

**Lanceradvanced**

pretre wrote:
Lanceradvanced wrote:
Looks like this one may have gone nuclear....

Not sure how that makes it nuclear. It is just a blog talking about the same issue.

It's who's blog it is that matters..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scalzi

**KalashnikovMarine**

Mindless hogwash on GW's part. Space Marines have existed as a literary trope/theme since the 30s, Power armor is an invention of SciFi Grand Master Robert Heinlein. The GW legal team needs to be taken out to the treeline...

**timetowaste85**

GW=pants on head dumbasses here. I've seen a frat boy smash a can over his head who demonstrated a higher brain cell count. Moronic decision, I hope they lose. And I have no idea what the book is about (but that's probably irrelevant here).

**KalashnikovMarine**

Lanceradvanced wrote:
pretre wrote:
Lanceradvanced wrote:
Looks like this one may have gone nuclear....

Not sure how that makes it nuclear. It is just a blog talking about the same issue.

It's who's blog it is that matters..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Scalzi

Lancer beat me to it. John Scalzi backing your cause, plus any other major writer... or publisher, or the estates of the same stepping up en masse here (because the law suit threatens ALL of their IP) can easily make the water too hot for a comparatively small fish like GW. They thought they could bully the little guy, but it's not going to work here... at least I hope not.

**Brother Captain Alexander**

My thought about this are that "Space Marine" is general term and it should be used in every book, story or whatever. The copyrighted term for GW is "Adeptus Astartes" and it is really unique for 40k.
Space Marine is general term for combat infantry in space : "The space marine, an archetype of science fiction, is a Marine that operates in outer space or on alien worlds". By this logic the decedents of Bob Olsen should sue GW because he was the first one to use that word in book back in 1932 ( "Captain Brink of the Space Marines" ).

**Orlanth**

I am all up for bashing GW, they give plenty of good reasons to do so. So I will not jump at a bad one.

Space Marines are a legitimate registered trademark, they are also the companies core trademark. They have a right or an obligation, based on local laws, to defend it.

**Da Boss**

It's trademarked for games and toys, not for books.

**Hordini**

Orlanth wrote:
I am all up for bashing GW, they give plenty of good reasons to do so. So I will not jump at a bad one.

Space Marines are a legitimate registered trademark, they are also the companies core trademark. They have a right or an obligation, based on local laws, to defend it.

Games Workshop-style Adeptus Astarte Space Marines are a registered trademark. That doesn't give them control over all uses of the generic term space marine.

**LordofHats**

Especially since space marine is just the word marine with space in front of it as an adjective used to define space soldier and only used instead of space soldier because space marine sounds cooler.

I think that James Cameron should sue GW. After all, he has the right or obligation to protect the Colonial Marines.

But I guess names are more important than visual aesthetics.

**Pacific**

Right, Adeptus Astartes is fair enough. The term 'Space Marine' though? They have got to be kidding. As that article has said, the term has been used in many different science fiction and fantasy books way before GW started to use the term.

Once again this smacks of 'expensive legal team justifying its existence' - they must realise it makes the company come across as a bunch of cnuts surely?

**KalashnikovMarine**

Am excerpt from a brief email I got from Ian Douglas, author of the Star Marines series (LITERAL Space US Marines)

Thanks for spreading the word. Seriously, though, these... these civilians don't know what they're talking about. John mentioned "The Space Marines and the Slavers." Never heard of that one, but that alone establishes the term in the public domain. To it I'll add van Buskirk's Space Marines in Doc Smith's epic Lensman series. I think those Space Marines put in their first appearance in Galactic Patrol, which first saw print as a serialization in Astounding in 1937.

Those yahoos don't have a leg to stand on.

It would be like trying to copy-write the term "warp drive," "star ship," or "terraforming," or saying that no one, ever again, could use Enterprise as the name of a ship. I didn't notice Paramount trying to sue NASA over that last.

**azazel the cat**

Orlanth wrote:I am all up for bashing GW, they give plenty of good reasons to do so. So I will not jump at a bad one.

Space Marines are a legitimate registered trademark, they are also the companies core trademark. They have a right or an obligation, based on local laws, to defend it.

Yeah, it's a registered trademark for tabletop miniatures and miniature wargaming. It's not a blanket trademark that applies to all thought and knowledge. Trademarks only work in the field for which they were specified. And where novels are concerned, GW is about 80 years late to the party.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Orlanth wrote:
I am all up for bashing GW, they give plenty of good reasons to do so. So I will not jump at a bad one.

Space Marines are a legitimate registered trademark, they are also the companies core trademark. They have a right or an obligation, based on local laws, to defend it.

Oh come on, you know that's absolute horse apples. Even without it being a literary archetype. If we go by established precedence of use then GW is open to some serious law suits.

Bob Olsen "Captain Brink of the Space Marines" 1932 Space Marines

Bob Olsen "The Space Marines and the Slavers" 1936 Space Marines

E. E. Smith Lensman series 1934–1954 Galactic Marines

Robert A. Heinlein "Misfit" 1939 Space Marines

Robert A. Heinlein "The Long Watch" 1941 Space Marines

Robert A. Heinlein Starship Troopers 1959 Mobile Infantry

Joe Haldeman The Forever War 1974 United Nations Exploratory Force (UNEF)

Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle The Mote in God's Eye and related novels 1975 Imperial Marines

Jerry Pournelle and S. M. Stirling The Prince or Falkenberg's Legion series 1976–1993; 2002 CoDominium Marines

David Weber Starfire series 1990–Present Federation Navy Marine Corps

David Weber Honor Harrington series 1992–Present Royal Manticoran Marine Corps (RMMC) of the Star Kingdom of Manticore, et cetera

David Sherman and Dan Cragg StarFist series 1997–Present Confederation Marine Corps

Ian Douglas
Heritage Trilogy, Legacy Trilogy, Inheritance Trilogy - 1998–Present United States Marines Corps, United Star Marine Corps

John Ringo
Into the Looking Glass, Vorpal Blade, Claws That Catch, The Manxome Foe - 2005–Present Allied Space Marines

John Varley
Rolling Thunder 2008 Martian Naval Corps

Better then half this list was using the term before GW was a concept.

**Brother Captain Alexander**

What is more amusing is that general term "Marine" in US is under USMC copyright.

http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/divpa/Units/MarineCorpsTrademarkLicensingProgram.aspx

They even had several Space Marines of their own:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Marine_Corps_astronauts

So what's next? GW suing US military for copyright?

**LordofHats**

No, the USMC should sue GW. And when GW refuses to pay... Well...

It's purifying time.

**DarknessEternal**

Anyone actually verify the truth of this matter? Just because someone claims they were wronged on the internet doesn't make it so.

**Hordini**

Well, it looks the like the print version is still available on Amazon, but the Kindle ebook is not.

link

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Looking at the credits on the Amazon preview, it looks like the author used a lot of USMC-related books for reference material, and donated a portion of the proceeds from the book to the Wounded Warrior Project.

Nice job GW. Stay classy.

**Kilkrazy**

I intend to write a series of novels entitled Forward to Space, Marine; The Frontier of Space, Marine; Upward to Space, Marine; A Skyfull of Space, Marine; Infinity of Space, Marine, etc.

Would anyone like to help think of variations and trademark them?