Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sad Panda said this fall:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/preList/671862/8456527.page#8456527

Hastings rumored individual releases of the Betrayal at Calth miniatures and this could be it.

tneva82 wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
The entire line? Wow that's insane and waaay too high expectations. Even Space Marines couldn't expect that. Geez CSM players are nutty sometimes. I think they set themselves up for disappointment.

I don't think Chaos will get its entire line updated, but I think GW could come pretty close. There are obviously models that are relatively new, for example Raptors, hellbrute, and Daemon engines. GW isn't going to update them.

Before the end of the year its been said GW is suppose have Tzneetch releases for both AoS and 40k and supposedly Slaanesh is part of the tail end of the AoS campaign so we could see some 40k slaanesh releases shortly there after too. IF GW continues the trend this new "Black Crusade" will be at a minimum two campaign books, each an opportunity to release a few more chaos models. Then there is ultimately the CSM codex. Even if all the releases are relatively light with 2 or 3 kits released coinciding with each of those its 10-15 chaos kits. That is pretty close to the number of units left in the codex after you exclude recent models or characters. All that's before you consider things like two-in-one kits like if Obliterators and Mutilators were updated into a single kit.

I wouldn't expect 15 kits. Campaign books can for example have non-chaos kits released after all. Also how many of those 15 kits you expect to be redo's of EXISTING kits and how many NEW kits? Daemon primarch or two, some new tzeentchian elite unit or two, some new daemon engine...Oh and couple clam pack characters. Those always come.

15 old kits redone is extremely hopeful. If chaos gets 15 releases 3 units getting redone would be very good result.

There's really only 3 current plastic kits that we desperately need re-do's on; Chaos Marines, Terminators & Berserkers.
In each case, either the models are absolutely ancient, (CSM's & 'Zerkers), and/or their current kit is missing so many of their basic options as to be basically worthless, (Terms & 'Zerkers)

Havocs, *Thousand Sons, Noise Marines, Plaugemarines, Oblits & Muties are all still Finecrap and/or upgrade kits.

Chosen & a proper Cultist kit with actual upgrades still don't even exist yet. (seriously, that's now 15 years we've been waiting for a Chosen kit! FIFTEEN!!)

Is it a lot? Absolutely, but then, guess what? This is what happens when you let an entire range rot away with almost nothing for a decade and then some!

As for how GW could churn through everything realistically?
- Thousand Sons are coming this Fall, alongside daemon Magnus. Would also be a great time to put out a generic plastic Sorcerer clampack.

- CSM, Havoc, Terminator & Oblit/Mutilator combo kits would make for a solid codex release line-up. In fact, leaving these kits until a top-down army re-think is the best option, since what Chaos really needs are new toys, since we're now almost tied with Sisters for the fewest options in the game. (meanwhile Loyalists across their 4 main flavours have +3 pistol/+1 special/+4 heavy weapon options vs. Chaos!)

- There's room for 2 campaign book releases across 2017, leaving GW the ability to churn out new Noise Marines & an Oblit/Mutilator combo kit for one, and then new Plaguemarines + Cultist (w/Zombie options!!!) for another.

4 releases all told - including the one we've been told is coming this year, and you've re-done everything bar Bikers (who can wait), Chosen (who can be cobbled together readily enough by combing everything else), and our vehicles plus HQ's/special characters.

Anything Daemon related can be piggy-backed through AoS releases, meaning GW really doesn't have to slot the models into an actual 40k window. (just put any new/re-tooled rules into the campaign supplements!)
Possessed, Raptors/Warptalons, Termie Lord/Sorc kits are all great in their current forms.

What's wrong with the basic CSM kit?

I'm a bit amused when I see "ancient" being used for some plastic kits. There are resin kits based on metal models from the early to mid-90's still floating around for certain races.

Not that the kits are bad, but Eldar made due with the same line of figures for around 17 years?

pm713 wrote:
What's wrong with the basic CSM kit?

a) Components still missing entirely; 2nd special weapon, Missile launcher, Autocannon, Lascannon, Power axe, Power maul, Lightning claw, every single Combi-weapon option. (bolter/flamer/melta/plasma).

b) The molds are ancient, the models lack the crisper detailing like we've seen over the past 5-6 years of releases, and it's typical to see miscasts and/or lots of bleeding details. (the banding on the legs are especially awful!)
The mold lines are also becoming nearly a new kit in and of themselves!

c) Visually they make no sense... Everyone wears MkVI pants, with MkIII-V torsos, and (laughably) mostly MkVII helmets!
On top of the 'it makes no sense' armour, they're all still in the age old 3rd edition "squatting for a dump" pose, and very clearly don't gel at all with look of the newer Raptor/Talon kit, & DV units.


Now obviously, there's no way we're going to get every single possible option in the kit! However, when you compare the "current" sprues to the newer Loyalist kits, you'll notice that there's a craptone of wasted space...
A new kit would not only allow for GW to finally give the CSM range a more unifying visual appeal, but would also allow for GW to add in at least some more basic upgrades such as a Combi-weapon, added grenades/spikes/chains/fleshy parchments, etc..., and just generally give us the same range of utility that the Loyalist kits enjoy.

Experiment 626 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What's wrong with the basic CSM kit?

a) Components still missing entirely; 2nd special weapon, Missile launcher, Autocannon, Lascannon, Power axe, Power maul, Lightning claw, every single Combi-weapon option. (bolter/flamer/melta/plasma).

b) The molds are ancient, the models lack the crisper detailing like we've seen over the past 5-6 years of releases, and it's typical to see miscasts and/or lots of bleeding details. (the banding on the legs are especially awful!)
The mold lines are also becoming nearly a new kit in and of themselves!

c) Visually they make no sense... Everyone wears MkVI pants, with MkIII-V torsos, and (laughably) mostly MkVII helmets!
On top of the 'it makes no sense' armour, they're all still in the age old 3rd edition "squatting for a dump" pose, and very clearly don't gel at all with look of the newer Raptor/Talon kit, & DV units.


Now obviously, there's no way we're going to get every single possible option in the kit! However, when you compare the "current" sprues to the newer Loyalist kits, you'll notice that there's a craptone of wasted space...
A new kit would not only allow for GW to finally give the CSM range a more unifying visual appeal, but would also allow for GW to add in at least some more basic upgrades such as a Combi-weapon, added grenades/spikes/chains/fleshy parchments, etc..., and just generally give us the same range of utility that the Loyalist kits enjoy.

......That's it. Wow.That's not bad at all. People make it sound like it was some atrocious Finecast monopose kit but that isn't bad.

It may not be Sisters levels of bad, but the current kit has more than served its time.

Besides, if Loyalists can get 3 different flavours of the same kit, why can't we have just 1 new kit after 15 years of our current kit + a handful of 'newer' bitz from 2007?

Experiment 626 wrote:
It may not be Sisters levels of bad, but the current kit has more than served its time.

Besides, if Loyalists can get 3 different flavours of the same kit, why can't we have just 1 new kit after 15 years of our current kit + a handful of 'newer' bitz from 2007?

Imperial Guard have have had the same infantry kit for 13 years and it has even less options. CSM players aren't exactly being singled out here.

Experiment 626 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What's wrong with the basic CSM kit?

a) Components still missing entirely; 2nd special weapon, Missile launcher, Autocannon, Lascannon, Power axe, Power maul, Lightning claw, every single Combi-weapon option. (bolter/flamer/melta/plasma).

b) The molds are ancient, the models lack the crisper detailing like we've seen over the past 5-6 years of releases, and it's typical to see miscasts and/or lots of bleeding details. (the banding on the legs are especially awful!)
The mold lines are also becoming nearly a new kit in and of themselves!

c) Visually they make no sense... Everyone wears MkVI pants, with MkIII-V torsos, and (laughably) mostly MkVII helmets!
On top of the 'it makes no sense' armour, they're all still in the age old 3rd edition "squatting for a dump" pose, and very clearly don't gel at all with look of the newer Raptor/Talon kit, & DV units.


Now obviously, there's no way we're going to get every single possible option in the kit! However, when you compare the "current" sprues to the newer Loyalist kits, you'll notice that there's a craptone of wasted space...
A new kit would not only allow for GW to finally give the CSM range a more unifying visual appeal, but would also allow for GW to add in at least some more basic upgrades such as a Combi-weapon, added grenades/spikes/chains/fleshy parchments, etc..., and just generally give us the same range of utility that the Loyalist kits enjoy.

Not even the loyalist kit has more than two heavy weapons options, so asking for a missile launcher, an Autocannon, and a Lascannon is a tad unreasonable don't you think? They also only get a power sword and a power fist as I recall, so no unending list of power weapons either. Yes it would be nice to have some options in it, but it is hardly an unserviceable kit. It's perfectly usable and whenever I have seen them on the table top they have looked great.

Yes it could do with some more special weapons options, but let's be honest here, this isn't something that isn't an insurmountable problem in the days of eBay bits sellers, and forgeworld upgrade kits. Or indeed 3rd party bits sellers. The csm box set is at least £5 cheaper than the loyalist one, probably more on 3rd party sites. Use the saving to grab some nice bits and so some kitbashing. It's not hard.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
It may not be Sisters levels of bad, but the current kit has more than served its time.

Besides, if Loyalists can get 3 different flavours of the same kit, why can't we have just 1 new kit after 15 years of our current kit + a handful of 'newer' bitz from 2007?

Imperial Guard have have had the same infantry kit for 13 years and it has even less options. CSM players aren't exactly being singled out here.

Don't think orks have either every option. What infantry kits with tons of options have every option anyway?

tneva82 wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
It may not be Sisters levels of bad, but the current kit has more than served its time.

Besides, if Loyalists can get 3 different flavours of the same kit, why can't we have just 1 new kit after 15 years of our current kit + a handful of 'newer' bitz from 2007?

Imperial Guard have have had the same infantry kit for 13 years and it has even less options. CSM players aren't exactly being singled out here.

Don't think orks have either every option. What infantry kits with tons of options have every option anyway?

Not any that I know of. I think 626's criticisms of the CSM kit's equipment options and demands for the replacement are unreasonable.

I mean, the kit includes options for the entire squad to be equipped with BP/CCWS and the usual assortment of Astartes specialized equipment. That's pretty damned good.

I thought the next box was either Iron warriors vs Fists or Ultra Raines vs World Eaters.

I mean, if they do BAC two: heresy boogaloo, it will probably be filled with Generic terminators/marines/others so that they can be used for anyone's legion, and then FW can sell the upgrade packs to make them more unique.

I kind of hope for IW vs Fists, just because of Breacher marines and such.

Maybe they'll bring back Rubric Terminators that come with a 4++ base and have ap3 bolter ammo. And decently priced!

Maybe Magnus and the other Daemon Primarchs will be GCs.

I am hoping that we get a set of Tartaros Terminators. The problem is that they should have given us those with Betrayal at Calth (Tartaros Terminators were built using the advances from the Mk IV armor). I would really like to see Mk III Breachers or Tacticals that could be done up as Breachers. I fully intend to make an Imperial Fists Legion army once the next set of HH stuff comes out.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I thought the next box was either Iron warriors vs Fists or Ultra Raines vs World Eaters.

I mean, if they do BAC two: heresy boogaloo, it will probably be filled with Generic terminators/marines/others so that they can be used for anyone's legion, and then FW can sell the upgrade packs to make them more unique.

I kind of hope for IW vs Fists, just because of Breacher marines and such.

Maybe they'll bring back Rubric Terminators that come with a 4++ base and have ap3 bolter ammo. And decently priced!

Maybe Magnus and the other Daemon Primarchs will be GCs.

They'll need a boatload more before terminators start becoming usefull* again, but it's a good start if they're decently priced.
Know what'd be really great? Highly priced Rubrics (both normal and terminator) with AP2 bolts!

I was kinda thinking of them being Cataphractii but better, essentially, for equivalent pricing. Maybe a Sorceror Squad leader that gets a unique power that makes the bolts AP2 for his unit, and another power that increases the invulnerable save for Rubrics within 12" by 1, to a maximum of 3++.

Force you to choose between better offence and defence, since the Sorceror would only be Mastery 1, but either way it's a powerful increase that also would be fluffy.

And no, I'm not saying this is all chaos should get, before any of you triggered chaos players jump down my throat.

 Crazyterran wrote:
I thought the next box was either Iron warriors vs Fists or Ultra Raines vs World Eaters.

Phall was just wishlisting and no one credible ever said it was happening (just BoLS and Faeit), but everyone thought it was the most likely pairing, and the Ultramarine v WE rumour came from a guy with a freshly made account.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
I thought the next box was either Iron warriors vs Fists or Ultra Raines vs World Eaters.

Phall was just wishlisting and no one credible ever said it was happening (just BoLS and Faeit), but everyone thought it was the most likely pairing, and the Ultramarine v WE rumour came from a guy with a freshly made account.

Phall would be the logical place to do Mk III armor Marines, but is also represents a very different type of play compared to BaC (Phall was void warfare whereas BaC is terrestrial), which is what Sad Panda has said will be the case.

I only recall Sand Panda ever saying the games are separate and use different rules, not that they both represent different types of combat.

Fingers crossed that a TS vs SW box is MKII and not MKIV (and that we eventually get a box of MKIII in a year or two), as I can't think of any other matchups that would be MKII-based

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I only recall Sand Panda ever saying the games are separate and use different rules, not that they both represent different types of combat.

Fingers crossed that a TS vs SW box is MKII and not MKIV (and that we eventually get a box of MKIII in a year or two), as I can't think of any other matchups that would be MKII-based

I just reread his posts, and you are right, he doesn't say that the game will be drastically different. He does say that it is HH, has Space Marines, and similarities end there.

what if the tzeentch "codex" would give all of them that rule they had in 3rd where they are straight up immune to ranged str 4 and below. Combined with a 4++...mmmh.

Experiment 626 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What's wrong with the basic CSM kit?

a) Components still missing entirely; 2nd special weapon, Missile launcher, Autocannon, Lascannon, Power axe, Power maul, Lightning claw, every single Combi-weapon option. (bolter/flamer/melta/plasma).

b) The molds are ancient, the models lack the crisper detailing like we've seen over the past 5-6 years of releases, and it's typical to see miscasts and/or lots of bleeding details. (the banding on the legs are especially awful!)
The mold lines are also becoming nearly a new kit in and of themselves!

c) Visually they make no sense... Everyone wears MkVI pants, with MkIII-V torsos, and (laughably) mostly MkVII helmets!
On top of the 'it makes no sense' armour, they're all still in the age old 3rd edition "squatting for a dump" pose, and very clearly don't gel at all with look of the newer Raptor/Talon kit, & DV units.


Now obviously, there's no way we're going to get every single possible option in the kit! However, when you compare the "current" sprues to the newer Loyalist kits, you'll notice that there's a craptone of wasted space...
A new kit would not only allow for GW to finally give the CSM range a more unifying visual appeal, but would also allow for GW to add in at least some more basic upgrades such as a Combi-weapon, added grenades/spikes/chains/fleshy parchments, etc..., and just generally give us the same range of utility that the Loyalist kits enjoy.

Actually, on this vein, you frequently mention that there exists no worse kit for a WYSIWYG version of a basic squad for an army, and the other day I cracked one open and laughed because I thought of you!

I discovered the joy of the Eldar Storm Guardian kit! (btw this is not a post trying to "prove you wrong" but you frequently ask if there is a kit as bad as chaos termies, so I thought you might appreciate this little gem).

We've got a basic troop choice in the Eldar codex, been around since I think 3rd or 2nd ed. First, if you want to use them, you must buy a box of normal guardians. This box contains 10 guardians.

The SG upgrade pack? Maximum of 8 models can be built. Also, it's a finecast kit in which over half the parts are noodle swords and noodle ponytails, so you know it's going to be pristine and perfect looking.

Rules-wise, the storms can take up to 2 of fusion guns or flamers, and up to 2 power swords. Other than that, they must take chainswords and pistols.

The upgrade kit contains 1 fusion gun, 1 flamer, and bafflingly, FOUR power swords and only TWO chainswords. So if you cared about WYSIWYG and didn't have the bits to convert, to field a legal squad you would need to buy two guardian kits, two storm guardian kits, and pay 30 points for S3 A1 power swords, and you'd end up with six storm guardians, four regular guardians, and 2 heavy weapon platforms you couldn't legally field.

Absolutely fantastic. Luckily, they convert pretty well with Harlequin swords, and at the end of the day they're a bit like Thousand Sons where at least you end up with something that looks good.

 General Kroll wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

pm713 wrote:
What's wrong with the basic CSM kit?

a) Components still missing entirely; 2nd special weapon, Missile launcher, Autocannon, Lascannon, Power axe, Power maul, Lightning claw, every single Combi-weapon option. (bolter/flamer/melta/plasma).

b) The molds are ancient, the models lack the crisper detailing like we've seen over the past 5-6 years of releases, and it's typical to see miscasts and/or lots of bleeding details. (the banding on the legs are especially awful!)
The mold lines are also becoming nearly a new kit in and of themselves!

c) Visually they make no sense... Everyone wears MkVI pants, with MkIII-V torsos, and (laughably) mostly MkVII helmets!
On top of the 'it makes no sense' armour, they're all still in the age old 3rd edition "squatting for a dump" pose, and very clearly don't gel at all with look of the newer Raptor/Talon kit, & DV units.


Now obviously, there's no way we're going to get every single possible option in the kit! However, when you compare the "current" sprues to the newer Loyalist kits, you'll notice that there's a craptone of wasted space...
A new kit would not only allow for GW to finally give the CSM range a more unifying visual appeal, but would also allow for GW to add in at least some more basic upgrades such as a Combi-weapon, added grenades/spikes/chains/fleshy parchments, etc..., and just generally give us the same range of utility that the Loyalist kits enjoy.

Not even the loyalist kit has more than two heavy weapons options, so asking for a missile launcher, an Autocannon, and a Lascannon is a tad unreasonable don't you think? They also only get a power sword and a power fist as I recall, so no unending list of power weapons either. Yes it would be nice to have some options in it, but it is hardly an unserviceable kit. It's perfectly usable and whenever I have seen them on the table top they have looked great.

Yes it could do with some more special weapons options, but let's be honest here, this isn't something that isn't an insurmountable problem in the days of eBay bits sellers, and forgeworld upgrade kits. Or indeed 3rd party bits sellers. The csm box set is at least £5 cheaper than the loyalist one, probably more on 3rd party sites. Use the saving to grab some nice bits and so some kitbashing. It's not hard.

Thank-you for completely ignoring the part where I came right out and said that there's obviously no way we'd ever get every single possible option...
The CSM box is $47 vs. the Tactical Squad's $50 price tag - such amazing savings! And yes, it IS an issue, because why should Chaos players be forced to go through 3rd party suppliers, FW and/or ebay/bitz sellers, just because... "Reasons." (and that whopping $3 difference will of course buy so much!)

Why is it so unreasonable for Chaos players to want a combi-weapon option & more than the same 4 sets of legs that all look like our guys are trying to drop the mother of all mud babies? Or most heretical of all, our army to finally have a single visually unified look, instead of the constant mishmash of nearly 30 years of wildly varying aesthetics?

The current Tactical Squad has managed to cram in 179 components, the BA version 165 components, and the basic SW 10 man set is a whopping 218 components! (or rather, 109 x2). Meanwhile, the new Raptor/Talon kit is 116 components for just 5 models! (hint: that's almost as many components as our basic 10 man kit comes with.)
What's so wrong with Chaos players hoping/wishing for a new set that could;
- keep the power sword + fist + plasma pistol
- replace Heavy bolter w/Missile launcher + add Heavy flamer
- add a single combi-weapon in the same style as the current Tactical Squad version
- redesign all the armour to better match the newer Raptors aesthetic (and don't make them all MkVI pants either!)
- replace most of the MkVII heads with older MkIII-VI style heads, since the vast majority of Chaos Marines never even had access to MkVII armour!

If Loyalists can get close to, (or even slightly over), 200 components for their basic squads, why doesn't Chaos - who are still Marines when it comes right down to it, suddenly be okay to not get the same level of treatment?

I know I'd instantly replace at least half of my basic grunts if we could get a kit that's similar to the basic BA kit, or else is closer on to the basic SW frame (5 dudes x2) + a re-jiggled 'command' frame. Even at the BA price point of $52 it would be well worth it, unlike our current set which feels like a rip-off.

Robbie MacNiven was guest on the latest Combat Phase podcast, talking about his Warzone Fenris ebook series. The sound quality isn't really good but even for a foreigner it is okay enough to follow the conversation.

The WZF part starts at ~32:35 mins

http://faeit212communitynews.blogspot.de/2016/06/ep-151-combat-phase-legacy-of-russ.html

I'll just throw this out there...I'd really like to see a re-launch of Chaos using almost exclusively Horus Heresy era equipment. It actually makes far more sense.

Chaos should be on the short end of the supply chain and shouldn't be using/producing Mk7 type armour. While I'm sure they scrounge battle field scraps from current marine Chapters and have limited production facilities of their own, it would be cool and a very easy way to quickly discern between Chaos marines and normal ones.

Rules can remain the exact same, no big deal, but it'd be nice. I've never cared for the over-the-top Chaos stylings, but if I "had" to do a Chaos force I'd probably start with the Betrayal at Calth box.

 Elbows wrote:
I'll just throw this out there...I'd really like to see a re-launch of Chaos using almost exclusively Horus Heresy era equipment. It actually makes far more sense.

Chaos should be on the short end of the supply chain and shouldn't be using/producing Mk7 type armour. While I'm sure they scrounge battle field scraps from current marine Chapters and have limited production facilities of their own, it would be cool and a very easy way to quickly discern between Chaos marines and normal ones.

Rules can remain the exact same, no big deal, but it'd be nice. I've never cared for the over-the-top Chaos stylings, but if I "had" to do a Chaos force I'd probably start with the Betrayal at Calth box.

I'm begging for MKII or at least MKIII precicely with this goal in mind. Use those + bits to make very old fashioned chaos marines

Not too fan of MKIV so that's why I'm not getting Calth for that. MKII would look so sweet though.

I agree, MkIV was one of the only types I didn't much care for (that and MkVII...so basically the two most popular!)

 Elbows wrote:
I'll just throw this out there...I'd really like to see a re-launch of Chaos using almost exclusively Horus Heresy era equipment. It actually makes far more sense.

Chaos should be on the short end of the supply chain and shouldn't be using/producing Mk7 type armour. While I'm sure they scrounge battle field scraps from current marine Chapters and have limited production facilities of their own, it would be cool and a very easy way to quickly discern between Chaos marines and normal ones.

Rules can remain the exact same, no big deal, but it'd be nice. I've never cared for the over-the-top Chaos stylings, but if I "had" to do a Chaos force I'd probably start with the Betrayal at Calth box.

Ideally, the entire Chaos Marine line should be using mainly MkV & MkVI styles of armour, since it was those who sided with Horus who had been the first to receive the 'latest' and most modern (for the time) suits of power armour. It was actually the Loyalists who had to 'make do' with older armour Mk's and/or scrounge up what they could.
Throw in some earlier MkIII & MkIV bits, and at best, just a very bare minimum of MkVII parts for showing off the more modern recently turned Renegades. ie: if a new kit comes with say 12 helmeted heads, only 2 at most should based on the MkVII pattern armour!

Then give us a Kai Gun for a new special weapon, and then add in the option for a Heavy flamer, a new 'energy-based' weapon and perhaps a medium Str & range multi-shot weapon that have definite origins in Heresy-era tech, but with some suitably chaotic leanings. (as in, what the gak have the Dark Mech been doing for 10,000 years?!)

It would even be cool if GW made Chaos Marine plasma weapons with a bit more punch, say Salvo 2/3 @ S7/ap2 and 'Gets Hot'. Meanwhile, they could then drop Loyalist plasma down to say S6/ap2, but remove the 'Gets Hot' rule entirely.
It would be nice way to differentiate between how Loyalists have continually tried to improve upon their plasma technology, while Chaos sticks to the 'old school' version, with the trade-off being a bit more power but with more risk of blowing up in your face!

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I'll just throw this out there...I'd really like to see a re-launch of Chaos using almost exclusively Horus Heresy era equipment. It actually makes far more sense.

Chaos should be on the short end of the supply chain and shouldn't be using/producing Mk7 type armour. While I'm sure they scrounge battle field scraps from current marine Chapters and have limited production facilities of their own, it would be cool and a very easy way to quickly discern between Chaos marines and normal ones.

Rules can remain the exact same, no big deal, but it'd be nice. I've never cared for the over-the-top Chaos stylings, but if I "had" to do a Chaos force I'd probably start with the Betrayal at Calth box.

Ideally, the entire Chaos Marine line should be using mainly MkV & MkVI styles of armour, since it was those who sided with Horus who had been the first to receive the 'latest' and most modern (for the time) suits of power armour. It was actually the Loyalists who had to 'make do' with older armour Mk's and/or scrounge up what they could.
Throw in some earlier MkIII & MkIV bits, and at best, just a very bare minimum of MkVII parts for showing off the more modern recently turned Renegades. ie: if a new kit comes with say 12 helmeted heads, only 2 at most should based on the MkVII pattern armour!

Then give us a Kai Gun for a new special weapon, and then add in the option for a Heavy flamer, a new 'energy-based' weapon and perhaps a medium Str & range multi-shot weapon that have definite origins in Heresy-era tech, but with some suitably chaotic leanings. (as in, what the gak have the Dark Mech been doing for 10,000 years?!)

It would even be cool if GW made Chaos Marine plasma weapons with a bit more punch, say Salvo 3/2 @ S7/ap2 and 'Gets Hot'. Meanwhile, they could then drop Loyalist plasma down to say S6/ap2, but remove the 'Gets Hot' rule entirely.
It would be nice way to differentiate between how Loyalists have continually tried to improve upon their plasma technology, while Chaos sticks to the 'old school' version, with the trade-off being a bit more power but with more risk of blowing up in your face!

I would be perfectly ok with this. Might show how CSM's prefer equipment that may be a bit riskier to use, but is also more powerful than bog standard SM equipment

Wasn't the Raven Guard and Dark Angels the ones testing Mark 6, while Mark 5 was a hodgepodge of whatever could be thrown together?

The Death Guard and Iron Warriors preferred Mk3, for example...

 Crazyterran wrote:
Wasn't the Raven Guard and Dark Angels the ones testing Mark 6, while Mark 5 was a hodgepodge of whatever could be thrown together?

The Death Guard and Iron Warriors preferred Mk3, for example...

They may have initially been the test monkeys, but by the time the Heresy began, it was still only those who had basically only sided with Horus who had been near to fully outfitted with those newer armour Mk's.
The Death Guard & Iron Warriors may have preferred the older marks, but everyone else had been readily supplied with the newest stuff.

Compound this with the fact that it was Horus' forces who managed to capture and/or subvert the vast majority of those worlds which were producing the newest stuff.

Besides the semantics though, the main issue is that it's positively stupid & massively fluff breaking that Chaos Marines currently look closer to Mk7 but with Mk6 pants, rather than being composed of mostly Mk5 & 6, with a moderate amount of Mk3 & 4 thrown in for good measure.