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The new daemon book has plenty of slaanesh stuff that puts a -5 modifier to I, but it does not say anywhere to a minimum of 1.
Characteristics CAN be 0, up to 10, confirmed in BRB characteristics section.

In the combat phase, it says how combat is resolved in a series of initiative steps. But in one line it says about going from 10 to 1, but does not say to 0! It says in another line about going down to the minimum initiative as well, so which is it? Because the first one means initiative 0 things cannot attack cause combat ends at Initiative step 1.

I expect that models with 0I can still attack but the rules are left a wee bit loose, and even fluff wise it's kinda fluffy that they are just standing there misty eyed.

I belive it can't go beneath 1, if so you will attack after said things like power klaws/fists by using common sense^^

It can you see, that was the first thing to check, all characteristics can go from 0 to 10!

I am picturing it more like they are just standing there dazed doing nothing, rather than slowly swinging their big hands/powerfist

The BRB does indeed say that Initiative can go all the way to zero. The Assault rules on page 23 say that models fight on their initiative, but also specify that each combat will have ten steps, starting with Initiative 10 and ending with 1. It does not specifically say that Initiative 0 models cannot fight, but it does say specifically that there are ten steps for Initiative, and they do not include zero. So, a strict reading of the rules says that models with Initiative 0 cannot attack. Nevertheless, I would definitely send an email to GW asking for clarification on this one, as it seems like it could go either way. (I can see this being the way it's supposed to work, or I could see it being that they are supposed to be able to attack, just after power fists.)

In any event, good luck, and I hope this helps.

Ya i might do that, its a bit of a coin toss!

Worth an email to gamefaqs@gwplc.com. I'm sure they'll errata this to say to a min of 1.

The Errata says that Page 22 should be changed to "...Starting with the highest and ending with the lowest." That would allow I0 to attack, but after even powerfists etc.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
The Errata says that Page 22 should be changed to "...Starting with the highest and ending with the lowest." That would allow I0 to attack, but after even powerfists etc.

The Errata doesn't really change anything. The rulebook then expands upon what highest Initiative and lowest Initiative are.

The only thing that particular errata did was eliminate the word 'engaged' from the sentence. The phrasing which seems to indicate that Initiative 0 models would not get to go is on page 23.

Nevertheless, good call on checking the FAQ Devotee. I checked it out but I didn't mention it in my initial response, sorry about that.

Did anyone actually get a ruling on this? I have a lot of slaanesh daemons but I will need to know if this works before including fiends.

Another thing to look at, if you reduce a models I to 0 that is also using an unwieldy weapon, they are static set to I1, (Int4 model, apply modifiers of -X, apply static effects unweildy set to I1) If I recall correctly, this is the order of opperations modifiers are applied in.

"Always strikes last" comes to mind.

I agree on unwieldy weapons, but did anyone find out what happens if your I is 0? Do you get to attack?

I doubt any answer has been given - but forum guidelines point out that even if someone did get an answer from GW already, it'd be nigh-on impossible to prove as not a fake and also potentially incorrect, as the rules-monkeys have been proven to be in the past (and sometimes even give conflicting answers if you ask more than once).

Basically, either this gets FAQed or it goes unanswered.

 Goat wrote:
Another thing to look at, if you reduce a models I to 0 that is also using an unwieldy weapon, they are static set to I1, (Int4 model, apply modifiers of -X, apply static effects unweildy set to I1) If I recall correctly, this is the order of opperations modifiers are applied in.

That would appear to be the case. So an Unwieldy weapon would actually increase your inititve in that very rare instance. Or any other inititive bonus you may recieve.

Look until its made clear if ever just allow your opponent to go last. It's a simple fix. Remember FUN FIRST , LAWYERING NEVER.

Lungpickle wrote:
Look until its made clear if ever just allow your opponent to go last. It's a simple fix. Remember FUN FIRST , LAWYERING NEVER.

For the most part, I agree. BUT. For the one army that can pull this off (Daemons), it's entirely possible to build units around the concept of knocking Initiative to 0. It takes a couple of FOC slots and some expensive options, not to mention getting the right units into the assault to begin with. In that case, it'd make a pretty big difference to the Daemon player after all that effort and would be worth getting "right".

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Another thing to look at, if you reduce a models I to 0 that is also using an unwieldy weapon, they are static set to I1, (Int4 model, apply modifiers of -X, apply static effects unweildy set to I1) If I recall correctly, this is the order of opperations modifiers are applied in.

That would appear to be the case. So an Unwieldy weapon would actually increase your inititve in that very rare instance. Or any other inititive bonus you may recieve.

If GW makes a ruling on this it'll probably go the way of BS0 models and Snap Shots - even treating their BS as 1, they still cannot shoot.

With the experience of 40k and Fantasy it seems most stats can become "zero" is WS, BS, S and T ( WS causing no attacks, BS no shooting, S or T instant death ) and not counting wounds and things that reduce attacks only reduce to 1.
And zero leadership is auto-fail on any leadership tests.

Zero Initiative is most likely that you hit last even by ini1 and auto-fail on any tests that require initiative.

Dracoknight wrote:
With the experience of 40k and Fantasy it seems most stats can become "zero" is WS, BS, S and T ( WS causing no attacks, BS no shooting, S or T instant death ) and not counting wounds and things that reduce attacks only reduce to 1.
And zero leadership is auto-fail on everything.

Zero Initiative is most likely that you hit last even by ini1 and auto-fail on any tests that require initiative.

The problem is a model with Init 0 would not get to attack as the Fight sub-phase goes from I10 to I1.

Ld0 doesn't autofail IIRC, it still just requires snake eyes as that is a more specific rule saying it autopasses.

Strictly RAW, models are only allowed to attack at their Initiative step in CC and the rules only allow ten steps corresponding to Init 1 through 10. So anything lower (or higher- nit currently possible) has no step to attack in and would be unable to attack.

I would never play it that way at it seems to rely on an oversight, but would certainly not object to an opponent who was fielding Slaanesh daemons and insisted on RAW.

edit: Nvm the faq entry only covers models that are not engaged.

I dont understand why this issue keeps coming up. The rule book is quite clear that there are ten initiative steps and the lowest is 1. You never get to initiative step zero. Its not a case of twisting the rules or rules lawyering. There just is no opportunity to attack if the model is initiative 0.

Page 3 if rule book

"Zero-Level Characteristics: Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field."

It goes on to give examples of WS 0 meaning no hitting and being autohit. Armor Save - meaning no save versus combat and finally Strength, Toughness or Wounds 0 being removed as casualties...

To go with this interpretation you could be WS 10 and S10 with A 10 but if your initiative ever got reduced to 0, you would never get an attack because the melee phase ends at I 1 not 0.

 Happyjew wrote:

Dracoknight wrote:
With the experience of 40k and Fantasy it seems most stats can become "zero" is WS, BS, S and T ( WS causing no attacks, BS no shooting, S or T instant death ) and not counting wounds and things that reduce attacks only reduce to 1.
And zero leadership is auto-fail on everything.

Zero Initiative is most likely that you hit last even by ini1 and auto-fail on any tests that require initiative.

The problem is a model with Init 0 would not get to attack as the Fight sub-phase goes from I10 to I1.

The fight sub phase goes from highest to lowest, the 10 to 1 is an example. The rule however says start with the highest and go to the lowest. Its possible that at the time it was written the writer assumed that 1 would be the lowest.

 Azrell wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

Dracoknight wrote:
With the experience of 40k and Fantasy it seems most stats can become "zero" is WS, BS, S and T ( WS causing no attacks, BS no shooting, S or T instant death ) and not counting wounds and things that reduce attacks only reduce to 1.
And zero leadership is auto-fail on everything.

Zero Initiative is most likely that you hit last even by ini1 and auto-fail on any tests that require initiative.

The problem is a model with Init 0 would not get to attack as the Fight sub-phase goes from I10 to I1.

The fight sub phase goes from highest to lowest, the 10 to 1 is an example. The rule however says start with the highest and go to the lowest. Its possible that at the time it was written the writer assumed that 1 would be the lowest.

09/04/2013 19:47:21 Subject: Initiative 0, can or cannot attack?
Page 3 if rule book

"Zero-Level Characteristics: Some creatures have been given a 0 for certain characteristics, which means that they have no ability whatsoever in that field."

They have no initiative, meaning they don't do things unless you tell them to?

I think I'm happy with "after power fists, dead last" for fun play, but without a ruling I wouldn't try to tell someone they CAN'T attack. That's just likely to get some nasty looks and lost opponents.

I hope that GW faqs this with something like:

"Models with Init 0 strike last and with only a single attack"

That would be awesome!!

The rules cover it already... Any ZERO and you are dead or incompetent... 0 S,T,W you are dead and removed as a casualty. 0 attacks and it doesn't matter what your S or WS is, you cannot attack. 0 WS and you just stand there and get autohit. 0 BS and you cannot shoot - even with a nova psychic attack that does not require targeting. (Yes Psychic Scream and Brood Lord I am looking at you.) 0 Initiative, you are so slow you don't get to attack because you are so slow you don't get to swing or move towards the combat.