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Need help with this list....
The list I need help with is for only ever going against, space wolves and blood angels.
This is a list I used in a local campaign in which This army did very well... But I want to build on it... Help me take it up to 1500pts and 2000pts, kind regards, crazy daemon guy....

Hq:
Bloodthirster 250

Bloodthirster 250


Troops:
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100


Total:1000pts



What do you think I should do?

If you're only ever going to fight MEQ then Bloodletters are certainly a great choice. Personally I'd buff the units up a bit more to 15/20ish Bloodletters as you go up in points, probably dropping one of the units to help buff up the others. Bloodthirsters are great, but I'm not sure two of them is necessary. 2 at 1kpts is great because your enemy won't have much that can handle them, but as you go up in pts I think it'd be smarter to swap one out for something that'll give you more tactical flexibility. A Lord of Change could bring some shooting into your list, and some added strength against flyers, which you are more likely to run into at higher points levels (use a prescienced Flickering Fire against them and most flyers will be in for the pain). Fateweaver's not a bad choice, either. He pretty much weaponizes the Warp Storm table and would serve as an excellent shooty compliment to your assault oriented Blood Thirster. A little pricy, though.

Beyond that, I'm not sure how to advise you. There are quite a few ways to build Daemons now, even when going mono god. Do you want a semi-horde? Are you looking for a lot of big scary things like Soul Grinders, Daemon Princes, and the like? Are you interested in allies? Do you want to go with a "cav" list with lots of Flesh Hounds and Seekers? Mono god or skittles?

I'm going to assume you still want your mono-Khorne theme as in your previous thread.

In which case, I'd say drop the second Bloodthirster in 1500 points or higher. Buff the first one with 2 Greater Rewards.

Find the points to get in a pack of Flesh Hounds with a Herald of Khorne on a Juggernaut with the Exalted Locus of Wrath. If you like taking risks, you can try giving him the Grimoire of True Names. That unit will be your anti-semihorde. Be wary of Terminators... speaking of which, maybe a Lesser Reward on the Herald could be good.

Grab an Aegis Defence Line with a Quadgun manned by a 10 Man Bloodletter squad for funny twin-linked BS5 shots. Could serve as anti-1 flyer or anti-transport.

Grab a Skullcannon for pseudo-grenades and then maybe 2 Soul Grinders with Phlegm Bombardment as you go up in points.

i am really loving this new list.... i am loving the flesh hounds!!!!

HQ:
Bloodthirster with a greater reward
bloodthirster

Troops:
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters

Fast attack:
10 flesh hounds
10 flesh hounds
10 flesh hounds


well.. i deploy it all on the board... get a 1st turn charge with the flesh hounds... then run the bloodletters up, whilst nothing shoots at them... the bloodthirsters take out the big tanks, and the rest is simple...

the only downside to this list is against highly mechanised lists...

thanks again Lou_Cypher.... your advice is always great.

Just remember if you use the scout move on the hounds, you won't be able to charge 1st turn.

damn.... i totally forgot... well.... back to the drawing board...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so, im back with my stock 1000pt list, and i am honestly struggling with ideas.... i am moving away from mono khorne.... any fresh ideas...

any thoughts?

Skullcannons can provide some ranged support and make up for the lack of grenades khorne deamons have. Soulgrinders can provide ranged support and skyfire. Both can keep the khorne theme.

Deamon princes can also be useful, but I would steer away from tying too many points up in FMCs. Dropping a bloodthirster for a few heralds could improve the quality of your hordes, then pick up a DP to keep up the FMC heat.

You could try mono khorne hordes with a portalglyph and suprise the opponent with pink horrors coming out of it.

I would be very warry of fielding furies. Any kind of shooty army could likely force a leadership check in a single round of shooting, and then the points are wasted. Consider investing the points somewhere else, but if you try them, Id be happy to hear the result, maybe they will be useful.

Why not a few bigger squads led by heralds, and smaller ones behind to play clean up/capture objectives? I also second cryhavocs suggestions. I know you have shunned crushers a bit, but i recommend you test a unit with karanak before hand, even if you just proxy. Their speed can replace the hounds threat from before and backed by thirster can really put pressure down fast in the game. Good luck

Yeah, I completely forgot that grinders can have marks... Cheers cryhavok.

 masquerade81 wrote:
Just remember if you use the scout move on the hounds, you won't be able to charge 1st turn.

Keep in mind that they can't charge the first player turn, not their first player turn, so if you go second you can charge. I actually think Flesh Hounds are great, but not in the small units An'Ark has listed. 15 or 20 man units with Heralds of Khorne on Juggers can be really devastating.

Once again, An'Ark: you should pick something that you want to do with your list and then tool it to excel at that. Once you've done that, put up the re-tooled list and we should be able to help you much better.

so, hang on.... so i still scout as usuall. then the enemy has a turn, then its my turn as normal?
if thats the case its still good...


in fact no its not.... if i scout to 12" off their deployment zone, he would charge me after firing pistols, killing 1... then he attacks, killing 2.5... i attack back , he loses 2.... i have to make a leadership on a 2... so i take more wounds, another hound dies... which leaves me with 6 flesh hounds, one has lost a wound, this will survive till at least the start of my turn 2, which should give me enough time to charge my bloodletters in.

hmmm.... so it does roughly what i want it to do... even if it dies a little quick. do you reckon i should just get 50 more bloodletters, and raise the squad sizes to 20 each?

would that be better?


although this would be a really boring list...

nest thing to look at would be soul grinders, and bloodcrushers again.

as the purpose of the remaining 500pts, it mainly to act as a juicy target for the enemy that will allow my letters to move up.

and if he still goes for letters, the unit could deal out some damage in itself...

i am going to start a poll elsewhere, bloodcrushers or flesh hounds...

i know its not the prettiest poll but here it is.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517908.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so... which list,
HQ:
Bloodthirster with a greater reward 270
bloodthirster 250

Troops:
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100

Fast attack:
10 flesh hounds 160
10 flesh hounds 160
10 flesh hounds 160


or...

HQ:
Bloodthirster 250
Bloodthirster 250

Troops:
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 100



or something completely different?

Why not this

bloodthirster, 2 greater rewards
blood thirstr 2 greater rewards

10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters
10 bloodletters

DP flight armour 2 greater rewards MoK
DP flight armour 2 greater rewards MoK

1500pts dead

Only thing about the above list and your list, not much to camp on objectives, unless you are going for the tabling stragety each game and to be fair with two BT's and two DP's it is possible!

Do you think 40 bloodletters is enough?

IMO yes, think about it, if you were facing two blood thirsters and two DP's and 40 BL's what are you going to shoot at?. all four MC;s will be flying for the firs turn they advance up the field so they need 6's to hit and higher then average toughness plus good saves on all (3plus then a invul then hopefully 4plus FNP or it will not die from the greater rewards) means not many shots will get through, if they shoot your blood letters they are going to have 4 FMC's wrecking face, there isnt much that can stand up to a BT or a khorne DP really, not that I have found at least! (from using my tzeentch DP's).

I would reserve at least one blood letter squad if I was playing the mission (i.e to hold a objective), keep another one backfield and advance the other two squads up for objectives or to assault, the DP's and the non warlord BT are there to kill and be killed, I would not like to face this list i'll tell you that much!

An'arkh'ad'nron wrote:
so, hang on.... so i still scout as usuall. then the enemy has a turn, then its my turn as normal?
if thats the case its still good...


in fact no its not.... if i scout to 12" off their deployment zone, he would charge me after firing pistols, killing 1... then he attacks, killing 2.5... i attack back , he loses 2.... i have to make a leadership on a 2... so i take more wounds, another hound dies... which leaves me with 6 flesh hounds, one has lost a wound, this will survive till at least the start of my turn 2, which should give me enough time to charge my bloodletters in.

hmmm.... so it does roughly what i want it to do... even if it dies a little quick. do you reckon i should just get 50 more bloodletters, and raise the squad sizes to 20 each?

would that be better?


although this would be a really boring list...

nest thing to look at would be soul grinders, and bloodcrushers again.

as the purpose of the remaining 500pts, it mainly to act as a juicy target for the enemy that will allow my letters to move up.

and if he still goes for letters, the unit could deal out some damage in itself...

i am going to start a poll elsewhere, bloodcrushers or flesh hounds...

i know its not the prettiest poll but here it is.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/517908.page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so... which list,
HQ:
Bloodthirster with a greater reward 270
bloodthirster 250

Troops:
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100

Fast attack:
10 flesh hounds 160
10 flesh hounds 160
10 flesh hounds 160


or...

HQ:
Bloodthirster 250
Bloodthirster 250

Troops:
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 200
20 bloodletters 100



or something completely different?

Beasts have a 12" move, fleet (re-roll run and charge dice), and move through cover, so Flesh Hounds can maneuver pretty reliably to get the charge without being in most other units' charge ranges. That said, it doesn't sound like you like the idea of using Hounds too much. Horde/Big Gribbly spam are equally valid tactics. With your horde list I'd recommend bringing either some Crushers with icons, some 10 man Letter units with Instrument and Icons, or one of the other fast icon bearers to help your letters get into combat more easily. For the big gribbly monster spam list the list that MarkyMark made looks pretty fun. I think you'd be better off grabbing two/three 15 man letter units rather than the four 10 man units and an exalted reward on one of you big gribblies so that you can grab portalglyph to help you get some betters scoring units and concentrate all the rest of your list on killing the enemy.

what if i swap all the rewards for a soulgrinder?

bloodthirster 250
bloodthirster 250

10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100

DP flight armour MoK 220
Dp flight armour MoK 220
soulgrinder phlegm MoK 160

1500pts exactly...
would that be better do you reckon? or are the rewards really worth it?
i know the greater rewards are amazing, but is it the best use of points?

I think you're missing out on how good the Khorne Heralds are. Skulltaker and Karnak are both amazing. Imagine having a herald in each of your bloodletter units.

Also, Daemon Princes do quite well with 2 rolls on the Greater Rewards table. I'd give both your princes 2 rolls on greater, change the phlegm cannon on the Grinder to the S6 AP4 torrent flamer, drop a blood thirster for 4 heralds, maybe change in one of the bloodletter units for a unit of flesh hounds.

i dont see the point of using heralds, sure for 100pts they can really buff a unit, but one for each squad... 400pts? no, not only would the enemy kill more bloodletters, making the locus less useful, but i would lose some of my anti tank.

one thing that i am set on is having the two bloodthirsters....
the rest is up for discussion.

also, as i only ever seem to play meq lists, the phlegm really is the best optiom, as not only is the soulgrinder a firemagnet, but it is quite survivable, meaning i could still get its points back, by taking out a squad...

do you honestly thing tooled up daemonprinces are better than a soulgrinder and two standandish daemon princes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
i have never liked daemon princes, and i am probably being a little biased here. thanks anyway for the help loreweaver


Automatically Appended Next Post:
or... how about this... best of both worlds?

bloodthirster greater reward 270
bloodthirster greater reward 270

10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100
10 bloodletters 100

DP flight armour greater reward MoK 240
soulgrinder phlegm MoK 160
soulgrinder phlegm MoK 160

total:1500pts exactly?

Love it.

Can you massage in any more Greater Rewards? They're all pretty stellar (except for the 3+ armour, because you have it already, but then you can grab the +1S sword or the khorne weapon)

I'm more of a Tzeentch guy myself, so my brain was thinking, "even a nekkid 45 point herald is good" but then the khornate ones are a bit pricier. 2 Blood thirsters is indeed mighty scary, and they vector strike at fairly high strength.

tzeench is my no,2 but i think its unplayable now... i dont like giving marines feel no pain... not nice...

and thanks for the feedback. i will be buying two soulgrinders tomorrow. i have been wanting an excuse to get one.

cheers loreweaver, you have been a real help to me.