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So, after my game against the flying circus, it was time to find the next, bigger challenge for my khorne list. From the previous discussion, there are two main classes of problems - MC spam and way-too-much dakka lists. There wasn't very much by means of MC players at the game store on Monday, but there were two dakka players. One was our local punisher spam player, but he was away for some reason (probably dinner) and I was impatient. The other was our local DA player. I've played against his ravenwing before with my guard and it was close-run, but not impossible.

This time, though, he brought the dakka. Withering, withering dakka. This would be another good test.

The mission was an Adepticon one, just like the last couple of times. 5-objective crusade and Purge. 1850 points.

My list was:

Huron
Lord - MoK, Axe of Blind Fury, sigil, juggernaught

10x Terminators - MoK, IoW, 3x c.meltas, 3x c.plasma, 2x autocannons, champ with claw

20x berzerkers - IoW, champ with fist
20x berzerkers - IoW, champ with fist

3x obliterators


My opponent's list was:

Azrael
Librarian - lvl 2, warp field generator
Techmarine - warp field generator
Command squad - 4x combi-plasma, apothecary, BOLTER BANNER

5x deathwing terminators - CML, all with THSS
10x tac squad - combi-plasma
10x tac squad - combi-plasma

10x vet squad - 2x meltas, 8x combi-plasmas, drop pod

Mortis Dreadnought

ADL - quad gun

Before the game we went about setting up terrain, at which point I was informed about what the actual Adepticon rules are - three terrain pieces per player. No wonder gunlines do so well at this event. When that was done, we set up objectives. I got to place first, so put one in front of his ADL to stop him from putting any inside of it, but otherwise I just kept things all in one place. Would make the game more interesting, in the very least.

I rolled to have 3 units infiltrate thanks to Huron, and my opponent rolled Foreboding (full-BS overwatch) and took prescience for his second power. My opponent won the roll to go first, and he took it. Night fighting was on.



And you can basically see how this game is going to go. He turtled up with everything in an ADL (except the dread and the techmarine, erroneously labeled on the above picture as if he were a techpriest) and gave my entire army a series of green-gauntleted insulting gestures from behind the walls of their tiny fort. I put my berzerkers closer. Of course I'm going to accept the challenge. If I'd have put my objectives over in my corner and sat on them, I'd learn nothing from this game.

His termies and drop pod went into reserves, naturally intending to bring them in right away. My oblits went into reserve. Yes, he's got a lot of stuff bunched up for plasma cannons... but he also has an ADL... and the plasma cannons aren't going to do THAT much damage... and I'm risking my sacred first blood. They'll just have to be a sleeve ace.

In any case, the strategy for this game is going to be the same as the last one. I'm going to win KP, and I'm going to win first blood, and thus win the game. Like the last couple of times, though, I'm going to try to make this spicier with an attempt at the objectives. Well, an attempt at tabling his army, or at least those in the little fort part.

However, there was one last thing to do before the game began. Two of the objectives started the game with scoring units on them. The one on the left side of the ADL rolled "nothing". The one on the right side next to all my stuff rolled "grav wave generator". For those of you without your rulebooks handy, that's the one where anyone attempting to charge a unit holding the objective sees their charge range cut in HALF. AND I've got to charge over an ADL.

Needless to say, this just pushed the difficulty level up to 11. Normally I'd want to go second, but I'm now looking at an extra turn (or two) barring something outstanding, to get into close combat. This is already going to hurt without that delay...

I try to seize the initiative, but fail. The game begins.



The game begins with both of his reserves coming in on turn 1, naturally.

He looks around, and sees my giant pile of berzerkers bearing down on him.



... and wisely decides to defer on attacking them directly this early in the game. He has time on his side. My terminators, on the other hand...



The drop pod scattered straight into them. Meanwhile, up the field, the deathwing decide NOT to get immediately charged by a huge pile of berzerkers, and kind of hang back in a countercharge position.

They scatter a tiny bit back, but still where they want to be.



And then he shoots.

Two 10x squads of bolter banner marines open fire into my bottom berzerker squad. And the quad-cannon. And one of those squads is prescienced. 45 bolter shots follow 40 twin-linked bolter shots. The die rolling is obscene, but the end result is surprising. Against guard, assuming no overkill, that kind of firepower would have killed 44 guardsmen in a single volley. I'm not playing guardsmen, though, I'm playing CSM. Power armor goes into full effect, and my dice are rather favorable, and in the end, only 7 are killed. However, the Azrael quadgun shoots, and he gets a precise shot, which wounds, and the model fails his armor save... the model with the Icon of Wrath. That berzerker squad trying to charge the ramparts now needs to roll 3D6 and pick the lowest two numbers, and then cut that number in half... and I don't get a reroll... against a squad that can fire overwatch at full BS.

However, that wasn't the worst of it. The vets had been combat-squadded at deployment, and flopped out of their pod against the terminators. 16 BS4 plasma shots and a pair of meltaguns hammers down on my terminators. Shooting is a little poor, and manages 8 wounds instead of his expected 10. This is going to hurt, but I've got a 5++ exactly to help tone down these kinds of problems.

... I then fail all 8 invul saves, leaving huron and a pair of autocannon terminators once the plasmapocalypse is over.

So already, things are going pretty tough, but I soldier on.

Huron and his tiny retinue move forward, and so does my pulsing throng of berzerkers. I actually move the lord up to the front of the squad so that he can give the squad a faux invul save if he needs to, which he can do, given that he's cavalry now and can move that much faster.



Everything else just moves up. Huron gets cozy with his assailants.



And the bottom berzerkers move up 5 with a run into a good position, but the top berzerkers only catch a 2.

Close combat sees huron charge in against the drop pod with his armorbane lightning claw and wreck it, while the terminators, armed with a power axe, a power mace, and MoK manage to kill only ONE space marine. They stay in combat, and its on to turn 2.



With my virtually unhurt berzerkers running up towards him, my opponent grits his teeth against the raging horde and gives the order to fire.



And boy does he. Again, he throws another 90 shots at me, but this time there is a whiff of combi-plasma in there as well. And this time, it's my opponent's turn to roll well... very well. He puts some 50 wounds on the bottom khorne squad. Wanting to give some safety to my khorne lord, I decide to pitch them all. I then respond with an absurd number of passed LoS!, seeing the lord only needing to make saves against like 3 of the wounds. The rest of the squad, though, takes it on the chin. To make up for his much better than average shooting, I make up for it with some much better than average saving, seeing a few berzkerkers still surviving, along with a khorne lord that had only lost one wound.

In assault, his terminators try and reach the khorne lord, but the rampant scale of the casualties turns a grasping-for-easy charge into a medium-length one due to everyone they were going to run in and hammer getting hideously gunned down first.

Also, Huron completely flubs his attacks against the couple of space marines he was fighting, but the terminators actually did their jobs this time and ended them.

At the top of turn 2, things are getting tense. I've now really, really got to make the charge to have any chance at this at all. He's already gunned down 15 of my berzerkers, and left 5 stranded with no hope of making it into close combat thanks to the grav wave generator. This is where my gamble is going to pay off or lose big. Soon one of our armies will be nearly tabled. But hey, I was at this point last game, with a bit over 20 berzerkers left by this point in the game, and this time I actually get to assault stuff!

Things start with my obliterators showing up. I'm fishing for some twin-linked melta into the rear of the dreadnought. Unfortunately, they scatter. Not far, but far enough to give the dreadnaught an improved-cover (thanks to the techmarine) ruins cover save. Oh, and in the process, interceptor fire from the quad gun puts 4 wounds on them, and I fail an armor save.

I don't want the dread to cause ID to the obliterators, but I want to start getting my KP early. Figuring that the dread will stay around (while the techmarine likely would not), and I can melta him next time, I throw 6 TL plasma into the techmarine next to him for an abysmal 3 wounds of which he fails one and dies. I also cause a single plasma burn on myself, which the obliterator fails his armor save against, losing me an oblit.

Meanwhile, Huron moves and then charges after the remainder of the vets. There were 4 in the squad (one had killed himself with a plasma overheat). After Huron's 4 S6 Ap3 shred attacks, and the same 4 S6 Ap2 and 4 S7 Ap4 attacks... one marine dies. Even with shred, Huron once again failed to land a wound that stuck.

But the main show was over on the right. The bottom survivors of berzerkers moved forwards. With no serious chance of getting over the ADL, I've got two options. Either I can stand around and force my opponent to easily gun them down with bolters next turn, or I can try and knock a wound off the terminators before they come charging in at my other berzerkers.

I choose the latter. 5 bolt pistols do nothing, and then I charge. 20 WS5 chainsword attacks, unfortunately, don't do anything either. Instead of losing one or maybe 2, they're fine, and the berzerkers are hammered into a fine paste.

That just left the top berzerkers. They moved forward 6", but that left them 4" away from the nearest enemy model. Even with the reroll, it was still a vastly terrible chance I'd cover that gap, thanks to the circumstances. However, I play the same trick I played in the last game. The khorne lord moved forwards so that he joined the squad 2" in front of the closest model. This cut my charge range required down to just 1", ensuring me the charge.

I declare the charge. My opponent opens up with prescienced full-BS salvo bolters. Again I make most of my LoS!, but luck is otherwise average, and I lose 5 or 6 of my berzerkers. I then roll for the charge. After knocking off the highest die, I get a 7, which is cut to 3.5 because of the grav wave generator. Knowing full well that that's as good as I'm reasonably going to expect, I keep it.





The khorne lord makes it in along with most (but not all) of the rest of the squad. The champ challenges, and Azrael accepts, easily winning. Then for the real action - my axe of blind fury. I roll for the demon weapon and roll a mere 2. The 8 attacks yield 4 wounds. All 4 bounce off of the squad's 4++. The berzerkers then unload with their 40+ attacks, and the dice roll merely average, seeing 7 marines from the tac squad killed.



At the top of turn 3, my opponent's defense reacts.

The dreadnought moved away from the obliterators and out in the open to get a clear shot at them. The other tac squad and terminators, bereft of targets, decides to go after the berzerkers.

In shooting the mortis dread hits twice and wounds twice against the obliterators. This time, though, I actually make an invul save. Two of them, in fact.

In close combat, Huron makes A kill against the vets in front of him, and the terminators make ONE more, leaving them STILL in close combat as the vet passes another Ld check despite the modifier.

On the other side, things go badly. The khorne lord issues a challenge, and the tac squad sergeant accepts. Figuring I didn't need the demon weapon, the lord horribly pistol whips the sergeant to death. A greedily roll on the table looking for something to get me out of this mess, and roll... Hatred. Meanwhile, Azrael kills off several berzerkers with some nice rolling. The berzerkers, for their part, fail in their huge pile of attacks, and do nothing...





...before most of the remainder are clubbed to death with thunder hammers.

In return, well, the game is already getting pretty quick. My obliterators move forward against the dread. Two twin-linked melta shots hit for two pens, for two vehicle explosion results. The explosion wings both obliterators for a single wound, which I fail the armor save against. Meanwhile, for the third turn in a row Huron unbelievably fails his die rolling, and the lone space marine is finally unceremoniously clubbed to death with a power mace.

Which just left the big fight. The khorne lord challenged. My opponent refused with Azrael (for some reason) which left the khorne lord to attack something else. He once again rolls an anemic 2 with his demon weapon and uses it (barely, thanks to more bad rolls) to finish off the tac squad he was fighting. The remaining few berzerkers fail their attacks again, and do no damage before being completely wiped out. Thankfully, that was a bit of ablative wounding for the khorne lord, who had fewer attacks to bounce off of his invul save, which he largely did.



Which led to the top of 4...



...wherein I was in a very bad way. Two obliterators, two terminators, Huron, and a wounded khorne lord. Against a lot of stuff. My army was now all but tabled.

As everything is more or less in close combat, the turn goes fast. Except it didn't.

We have to spend some 15 minutes looking through the rules about indepentent characters. When Azrael's squad had been killed, he'd reverted back into a squad of just one model (himself), but as you can't join a unit that's locked in close combat, that meant that he was still a unit of his own up against my khorne lord.

Given that I could attack Azrael whether he accepted the challenge or not, he decided to accept the challenge. They both attacked at the same time. Azrael got the benefit of the WS thanks to the blinding effects of the axe, but rolls well anyways, putting down 3 wounds. I roll a 4 for my demon weapon, and put down a better-than-expected 6 wounds for a change. My opponent rolls 2 successful invul saves leaving 4 that get through. My opponent has way more models than I do standing around chanting, though, and gets two rerolls. Both of them pass, leaving Azrael with one wound left. I pass 1 invul saves for 2 wounds that stick, for a dead khorne lord.



The bottom of turn 4 sees my sad five models going into damage control mode.

In movement, my obliterators hang out in the ruins. They'll be taking linebreaker, thank you kindly. Meanwhile, Huron is left in a tragic position. It's taken him and two MoK terminators 4 rounds of close combat (including two charges) to kill 8 marines and a drop pod. Had they accomplished this in a timely manner, they may have had something to contribute to this game, but now they don't. Instead, the only thing I can do with him is to deny a warlord point. He decides to go and hide behind the house in the middle.

Except it wasn't QUITE like that. Azrael was still out in the open, and still only had 1 wound, and still wasn't part of a squad. I leave one obliterator in line of sight while the other hides, and I leave both terminators just barely out in the open to shoot their autocannons at him.

I go fishing for a warlord point and another KP, but a lascannon hit bounces off a 4+ invul save, and 3 autocannon wounds bounce off of 3 terminator armor saves. Bother.

At the top of 5, with no real resistance left, he charges forward.



The deathwing moves over onto the objectives close to huron, and the other tac squad moves over to attack the obliterators. And Azrael joins the command squad. Shooting sees azrael throw down 4 wounds with his quad gun on my terminators, and I lose one to a failed armor save. Salvo bolters unload on the in-line-of-sight obliterator and and more failed armor saves see it killed.

Which means, oddly enough, I actually have to take a morale test with my obliterators.

Which he fails, moving 8" backwards...

At the bottom of turn 5, I roll to regroup and fail again, this time moving 10" backwards. My hopes for linebreaker are completely dashed. So, dangerously, is my hope of winning by KP.

All I do is take Huron and his lone terminator and run him backwards. I stay in the shade of the house against the quad-gun, and I really don't want to be in a potential charge range against the terminators.

I roll to continue and we do.

At the top of 6, Azrael puts 4 wounds onto the lone obliterator. Shockingly, but not surprising for this game, I fail two of my 4 armor saves, seeing the obliterators wiped out. This leaves just Huron and the terminator, who are out of LOS of pretty much everything.

I roll to continue, and we do.

Turn 7 sees the CML from the terminators just get into LOS of my remaining models. With the help of presience, the missile launcher gets two hits. Huron chucks them both. The terminator rolls two armor saves and fails one.

The end of the game sees a lone, confused, and angry Huron - the only model without MoK, and, perhaps unsurprisingly, the only survivor - deciding that he just MIGHT not win this one after all, and that what he should probably do is to go get some reinforcements.



In the end, 75 skulls were lifted up to the skull throne for a victory for Khorne!

On an unrelated note, my opponent beat the pants off of me, by objectives, giving him a win on that one. Then came my despondent counting of the kill points. Despite having been all but tabled, I'd given away only 5 KP. Meanwhile, I'd gotten 3 from the veterans (because he combat-squadded them), and 2 from the dread and his buddy from the obliterators, and that giant charge had, in fact, barely managed to kill the tac squad, giving me a 1 point lead on KP.

Which meant it rolled over to secondaries. Neither of us had linebreaker. Loltastically, neither of us had a warlord point either.

I had first blood, for the scheeziest, most underhanded, completely filthy double-win for the blood god.

- But, then, that's exactly what my list was designed to do. Get first blood, and force things onto secondaries for the win.

- That said, I walked away from this game head bowed low. Despite technically having the victory, I clearly wasn't the real winner of this game.

It would be easy to blame the dice for this one. I had way better than average LoS! rolls, and a bit better than average armor saves on the berzerkers, but those were exceptions compared to the rule of passing virtually no saves (armor or invul) on my terminators or obliterators, really, really awful rolling for my ICs in close combat, and that damnable grav wave generator. But, regardless of poor rolling, that's not the real story to this game.

The real story was in the lists. Because even with bad rolls, that didn't change the fact that my opponent had an armywide 4++, thanks to his warp field generators everywhere. It didn't change the fact that it was going to be at least a little bit extra difficult to get into close combat thanks to the ADL. Really, though, it was the test I was looking for - khorne berzerkers vs. too much dakka.

Yes, my opponent's librarian got foreboding, but that's one of the things you can get with a librarian. Combined with prescience and a bolter banner, and the results stood no chance but to be brutal. You don't have to look further than the basic numbers here. The left-side tac squad got 80 shots in 2 turns. The right-side squad got 80 shots, plus 40 more on overwatch, for 120 shots, all with prescience. 200 bolter shots, plus some more from the command squad.

That is, in 2 turns of shooting, he was expected to get 160 bolter hits. With average rolling, that's 80 wounds, which lands you at 26.5 dead marines. I lost 22 with good rolling. That was a whole berzerker squad, and then some. Even if things had gone more my way, and I'd managed to wipe the tac squad I charged, leaving Azrael, I still would have had to deal with Azrael, another tac squad (not on the charge anymore), and a unit of 5 THSS deathwing. With an injured khorne lord tied up in the wrong challenge and some 15 berzerkers. Even looking at things very favorably for me, my charge was doomed. There still would have been at least SOMETHING scoring, likely to the tune of half a tac squad and 3 or 4 THSS terminators. Unless I pretty much tabled my opponent, he would have had scoring units left, and, barring a miracle, I still wouldn't have any, much less all that much around to contest.

But, then, maybe I'm being a bit too hard on myself. If Huron and his terminators had behaved anywhere near how they should have, it's possible I would have prevented the horrible hammernating of my berzerkers, or at least given them more time. That said, there was another round of prescienced full-BS salvo bolter fire (plus perhaps some regular salvo bolter fire) waiting for them. In another squad with a 4++.

- Tactically speaking, I've been putting thought into this, but not really getting much. Obviously, there was the mistake of my opponent to have combat-squadded his veterans, giving me the extra kill point I needed, but, honestly, that SHOULDN'T have mattered had I not managed to fail two Ld8 morale checks and then 3 of 6 2+ armor saves at the end of the game.

Really, the only things that are raising questions are two things. The first is the charge of the mauled berzerkers. It was suicide, and freed up my opponent from the obligation of killing them, which bugs me. That said, I can't imagine it would have made much of a difference - the other tac squad easily being able to wipe out 5 berzerkers with a round of salvo bolters. I guess I could have used it as bait to keep the terminators away from my other berzerkers, but I don't like being forced to rely on my opponent's stupidity.

The other was my placement of the obliterators. I was using them to get easy KP (and to stop a mortis dread from picking off stuff), and linebreaker. I'm kind of haunted, though, by the idea that I could have dropped them in much, much closer, plinked with some guns, and then tried to help out in close combat somehow.

- Because, strategically speaking, this game was one of force concentration. My opponent could project a lot of firepower early, and then, when my berzerkers did arrive, they were up against Azrael and some hammernators. At no point, during the big fight, was I able to really put down proper force concentration. I had it there in the beginning, but then it all the sudden just sort of... dissolved.

And now that I've had a proper game played out where I basically lost, unfortunately, I'm still kind of stumped for answers. I mean, what changes to I make to help fix this problem? One could say that I should degrade from berzerkers to MoK CSM, but I abused the hell out of fearless this game, and WS5 was the only possible chance of winning the big fight. One could point to the terminators, but my opponent brought two units to handle them very well, but then I'm also rather loathe to get rid of them either.

I'm thinking of other list things as well, but nothing immediately strikes me. Helldrake... quad gun and invul saves... bikes, raptors or spawn... would just get chewed up, same as the berzerkers. My opponent's only thing close to a proper weakness was anti-tank, having only a mortis, a quad gun, and a pair of meltaguns. That said, a mortis can still get first blood against a vehicle, and it still wouldn't have done much to spare my berzerkers from their fate. The only thing really coming up is land raiders, but then I think about the gauss weapons from last game and the meltaguns and terminators and MCs from the game before...

I mean, I suppose I could relent and play the game more to the missions. I mean, I'd still be fine on a purge game, and my berzerkers can still infiltrate directly on the objective for relic, and I'd still have emperor's will in the bag, being able to easily tie on primaries and then pulling my first blood trick.

But on multi-objectives games, am I really just stuck hiding my big pile of berzerkers over in a corner on objectives while I wait for my opponent to come to me? That sounds exceedingly awful. It would be a game between two gunlines, except one of them wouldn't get to shoot. For me, it would be worse than sitting around for awhile watching my opponent play yahtzee with himself. I can't imagine it would be much better for my opponent either...

It's a little annoying that I got the challenge I wanted with a result that should finally start to clarify things for me, and I'm still stumped.

- So, as you saw this game, I lightened things up and took a juggernaught. Honestly, though, I can't say that I'm terribly impressed. Like in the last games, my lord stayed pretty much in the thick of it, and the extra mobility for squad-hopping wasn't terribly useful. Meanwhile, it's not like he could have sprinted out by himself and tried for a solo charge - the most likely result from that would have been him getting killed by overwatch fire in this case (to say nothing of having to beat Azrael once he got there). If, even with fleet, he'd managed to get the charge in at all.

I kind of feel like the only way to make it really worthwhile is to put him in a squad that's also fast. I can't imagine what I'd put him with, though, that would work well with the army as a whole. And I had to lighten up the terminators to get it. Not that it would have mattered for this game, but still.

I guess I just wish I had something better to spend that ragged hunk of points on.


Slayer of the Game: This has to go to the obliterators. They were the only thing that got even close to making their points back in kills. Even with conscript leadership and flak armor...

Most Aspiring Champion: Huron may have lived again to fight another day, but he was garbage this game. He killed ONE space marine. And a drop pod for first blood, sure, but still. Instead, the real attempted hero of this game would have to be my khorne lord. He so inspiringly charged forwards that his men, so enamored by his courage, threw themselves some 60 times in front of him to take an endless torrent of bullets. And he died fighting. In a challenge. Like a proper servant of khorne.

Anyways, I hope you enjoyed the show. I look forward to comments and all that.

Wow. Am I right in thinking that this Khrone army of yours has not lost a game yet? I am impressed.

Don't feel bad about winning on secondaries. Played a game today that left me with 7 models on the table. Luckily, all 7 of those models were on objectives. On turn 7. Sometimes you don't get those big touchdown wins you want, but you outplay your opponent (and get some good rolls) and things turn out your way.

Another excellent battle report. I do admit to missing the fluff but as a tactical report it's quite good. Perhaps some beefier vehicles would've been an investment in this sort of situation. A Bolter wounds a guy on a 4 but can't do crap to a Rhino in most situations.

Nice fight. You stuck in there and squeaked out a win with a single model alive. I love it.

I think it is a testing issue. Perhaps you could play some more too much dakka games but one with some of the termies converted to spawn to run the juggerlord with and perhaps replace the termies entirely one game with oblits.

Oblits can be useful to run a HQ with as well as with PFs they are not bad in CC. The extra Ld can also keep them on the board.

I actually hope you keep using the berserkers as they actually seem to be doing a good job of doggedly charging forward to death or glory. Often with a little of both as the result.

Nice report enjoying your new army style. One thing tho

'' They both attacked at the same time. Azrael got the benefit of the WS thanks to the blinding effects of the axe, but rolls well anyways, putting down 3 wounds. I roll a 4 for my demon weapon, and put down a better-than-expected 6 wounds for a change. My opponent rolls 2 successful invul saves leaving 4 that get through''

Azreal only has 4 wounds.

GL in future reps look forward to seeing them.

How about taking the Burning Brand instead of the Jugger? Adds a bit of ranged attack to help thin out some models before you charge?

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
Nice report enjoying your new army style. One thing tho

'' They both attacked at the same time. Azrael got the benefit of the WS thanks to the blinding effects of the axe, but rolls well anyways, putting down 3 wounds. I roll a 4 for my demon weapon, and put down a better-than-expected 6 wounds for a change. My opponent rolls 2 successful invul saves leaving 4 that get through''

Azreal only has 4 wounds.

GL in future reps look forward to seeing them.

Keep reading, he says Azrael gets 2 re-rolls due to the other guys standing around (moral support), which he passes...

Great report as always Ailaros!

I like the arrows a lot, but it get's a bit confusing after a few turns. I think it would be easier to follow the report if there was a second overview shot around the end of turn 3 or so and if you painted the arrows for turn 4- on this shot instead.

This game is a really difficult matchup for your army. Bordering tailored with all those plasmas... What's his game plan if someone bring russes or artillery?

I don't know what was agreed about the lone house in the centre, but it seems to me infiltrating the oblits into it would have been an interesting option.

Btw, taking a juggernaught makes the lord cavarly, so Huron can't infiltrate him.

Again, I saw his list and my immediate reaction was to write your chances off, but if anyone could do it I had a feeling it'd be you.

We've all had wins like that, but don't let it dishearten you. A win is a win!

 CaptainJay wrote:

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
Nice report enjoying your new army style. One thing tho

'' They both attacked at the same time. Azrael got the benefit of the WS thanks to the blinding effects of the axe, but rolls well anyways, putting down 3 wounds. I roll a 4 for my demon weapon, and put down a better-than-expected 6 wounds for a change. My opponent rolls 2 successful invul saves leaving 4 that get through''

Azreal only has 4 wounds.

GL in future reps look forward to seeing them.

Keep reading, he says Azrael gets 2 re-rolls due to the other guys standing around (moral support), which he passes...

You get to re-roll unsuccessful invulns with moral support? I thought it was only rolls to hit??

 Holy~Heretic wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
Nice report enjoying your new army style. One thing tho

'' They both attacked at the same time. Azrael got the benefit of the WS thanks to the blinding effects of the axe, but rolls well anyways, putting down 3 wounds. I roll a 4 for my demon weapon, and put down a better-than-expected 6 wounds for a change. My opponent rolls 2 successful invul saves leaving 4 that get through''

Azreal only has 4 wounds.

GL in future reps look forward to seeing them.

Keep reading, he says Azrael gets 2 re-rolls due to the other guys standing around (moral support), which he passes...

You get to re-roll unsuccessful invulns with moral support? I thought it was only rolls to hit??

It's any roll you want, can make all the difference!

 Holy~Heretic wrote:

 CaptainJay wrote:

 Holy~Heretic wrote:
Nice report enjoying your new army style. One thing tho

'' They both attacked at the same time. Azrael got the benefit of the WS thanks to the blinding effects of the axe, but rolls well anyways, putting down 3 wounds. I roll a 4 for my demon weapon, and put down a better-than-expected 6 wounds for a change. My opponent rolls 2 successful invul saves leaving 4 that get through''

Azreal only has 4 wounds.

GL in future reps look forward to seeing them.

Keep reading, he says Azrael gets 2 re-rolls due to the other guys standing around (moral support), which he passes...

You get to re-roll unsuccessful invulns with moral support? I thought it was only rolls to hit??

For every 5 models you get one re-roll to hit, to wound or saving throws.

Wow nice game! Lessons learned all over. I knew you won it as soon as he blundered that drop pod. I mean he gave you 3 KP and FB on a silver platter. Then he puts 2 more oft KP for your Oblits on an isolated flank. Had he stayed in one lump he would have made it harder. I think you played him well, you probable should have deployed better though so that you were 24.1" away from his lines, this would mean he dosent get first turn fire, then with movement and running you would be at least 17.1 away, doesn't deem lioke much but every inch counts, just ask the ladies Seriously though this was a great win and the deployment is a matter of taking the fire turn one or 2, I think yours was probaly the most Khornish decision so it's probably for the best.


The turn you through away 5 KB I think was your only huge misplay. Next time move and run them so they are 1" away from his Termies as bubble rap, this renders them immobile in their next movement phase and tempts him to make a mistake with which unit he uses to target them. It also means you aren't giving him a free action in YOUR turn by pointlessly charging.


Good Show mate!


PS lemme know about the other projects status

Do people in your group really find this kind of mission fair? It seems counter-intuitive to most mission objectives.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Do people in your group really find this kind of mission fair? It seems counter-intuitive to most mission objectives.

You mean double primary missions like they use at Adepticon and BAO?

 pretre wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Do people in your group really find this kind of mission fair? It seems counter-intuitive to most mission objectives.

You mean double primary missions like they use at Adepticon and BAO?

For BAO the missions are not equivalent in points. Primary is 4 points and secondary is 3 points. That decreases the chances of the game being decided on secondary objectives.

Having two missions that are equivalent in points seems silly actually.

As far as changes moving forward, what about a small reduction in the size of the KB squads and moving those points over to additional fire support?

Edit: The other option would be large cultist squads for a screening unit and to eat overwatch or durable fast movers like spawn or bikers to tie shooters up earlier.

DarknessEternal wrote:Do people in your group really find this kind of mission fair? It seems counter-intuitive to most mission objectives.

You hardly need to convince me that tournaments have house rules that make the game unfair - special missions being only one way. It's one of the several reasons I don't give any particular respect to large tournament winners.

I don't actually see a way to do multiple objectives like this intelligently. Either you have roughly equal objectives and you can do what I'm doing here - only playing to one of them and winning on secondaries, or you're going to have unequal objectives, and people are going to ignore the lesser objective and play to the greater one - thus defeating the whole point of multiple objectives.

In any case, some people at my FLGS are going to Adepticon next year, and are playing the missions that go with that event as a means of preparing. At least, that's what our current league is about. I guess if I can help out "my team" by showing them that you can just go for first blood: the game, and that helps them do better, then I guess that's a good thing.

Happygrunt wrote:Wow. Am I right in thinking that this Khrone army of yours has not lost a game yet? I am impressed.

Well, so long as blood is spilled and skulls are collected, Khorne wins. That means, unless my opponent can somehow manage for there not to be any casualties in a game, that Khorne will win every game.

It's one of the nice things about playing a "bad guy" army, actually. They have different criteria than "Did we win, or are millions of innocent people about to get killed?" It's not the continuation of humanity itself that's at stake. And its easier to justify any particular combat (Khorne is nearly on par with Orks in this respect), and even if I lose, I can still take a glint of comfort from the idea that the good guys won, and humanity is safe... for now...

On an unrelated note, yes, I've won all three of my games so far. This is the first one that if it would have been JUST a 5-objective game, and if I'd have placed those objectives all in a wad next to my opponent, that I would have lost. I'd really like to come up with some way I can keep playing this handicap, as I'd rather not have to play "hide the berzerker" with a bunch of objectives on my side of the board, without immanent loss.

TheCustomLime wrote:I do admit to missing the fluff

Yeah, and I'd like to write some, but I feel so far away from that right now. I don't want to do much fluffiwise until I at least get a miniature worth writing fluff for painted. Unfortunately, I've still got my terminators at the very top of this list. And unfortunately, I still have one nagging style question left unresolved.

Once I can finally just get things settled, then I can go on a painting spree, and that will lend itself to start writing fluff.

ansacs wrote:Nice fight. You stuck in there and squeaked out a win with a single model alive. I love it.

This actually breaks my previous record of pulling out a draw with 2 models. Interestingly enough, it was ALSO against a too-much-dakka list, and I don't know how well I'd be able to do in a game against an opponent with that kind of list with my current army. I imagine it would meet much the same fate as my power blobs.

... Well, maybe not AS bad. I do have power armor now.

ansacs wrote:I think it is a testing issue. Perhaps you could play some more too much dakka games but one with some of the termies converted to spawn to run the juggerlord with and perhaps replace the termies entirely one game with oblits.

I guess I don't really see why more oblits or some spawn would be more helpful in general.

Dundas wrote:How about taking the Burning Brand instead of the Jugger? Adds a bit of ranged attack to help thin out some models before you charge?

The problem that I have with the brand is that it's only good against the same kinds of targets that giant pile of chainswords are good against. Not only does this make the brand less necessary, but it also means that I'm more likely to kill myself out of charge range...

zoat wrote:What's his game plan if someone bring russes or artillery?

Breathe easy.

With displacement, I can cut things down to a maximum of 3 dead berzerkers per hit, and both of those targets are very vulnerable to krak grenade spam. Not to mention Huron claws and deepstriking TL melta.

Pie plates haven't been that good for going on a decade now. Manticores, being multi-shot, can mitigate the faults of blast weapons, but still, I'm really not that worried.

zoat wrote:I don't know what was agreed about the lone house in the centre, but it seems to me infiltrating the oblits into it would have been an interesting option.

So, I've been thinking more about the obliterators.

A part of me is tempted to think about putting them on the table, you know, to throw around some plasma cannons early on. But then I remember that everything had a 4++, and there was no way I was going to get first blood with the obliterators starting on the table (If my opponent could plasma gun 8 wounds of terminators, they certainly could have done it to 6 wounds of obliterators, and that's before we start talking quad gun and mortis dread). Oddly enough, one of the better plans may well have been to deepstrike them against the tac squads. If they rolled a hit (rather, than scattering... well... anywhere), they could have optimistically gotten 6 or 7 hits per flamer template. Assuming the latter, I could have killed half a tac squad. Killing 5 space marines may not sound like much, but it would have saved me 40 TL bolter shots, or 6 berzerkers. If I'd put them near the terminators, I may have been able to get in a terminator vs. obliterator fight, which would have left even more berzerkers alive.

Still not exactly a shoo-in for taking out the other squad of marines, though, because both the TL and the at-BS overwatch would have been in effect due to the librarian, while they'd still have salvo. It might have been a better play, though.

zoat wrote:Btw, taking a juggernaught makes the lord cavarly, so Huron can't infiltrate him.

Oh crap, you're right!

In this case, I would have had to move him 12" to the front of the berzerkers from the terminators instead of 6" from the berzerkers themselves, but that still is a pretty damning thing against the juggernaught.

Red Corsair wrote:I think you played him well, you probable should have deployed better though so that you were 24.1" away from his lines, this would mean he dosent get first turn fire

Well, so in current format, I had to take two turns of fire. If I would have stayed JUST out of reach, he would have shot no bolters turn 1, then I'd have moved forwards to, with a 3" run, to 15.1". Then he would have shot me once, and then I would have moved forwards 6" to 9.1". Which means a 10" charge. Certainly this is doable, and it's why I have that icon... but it's not guaranteed, certainly, and in this case, it would have been practically impossible, what with having to charge over the ADL (only a 1 in 14 chance - which means a 13 in 14 chance he gets to fire full-BS TL overwatch at me twice), and in this very particular case, literally impossible due to the warp field generator.

Red Corsair wrote:The turn you through away 5 KB I think was your only huge misplay. Next time move and run them so they are 1" away from his Termies as bubble rap, this renders them immobile in their next movement phase and tempts him to make a mistake with which unit he uses to target them.

There we go.

I hadn't thought about using the berzerkers to increase his charge range by blocking him off in the movement phase. It wouldn't have done much, but it would have added an inch or two, perhaps to his charge range, and that might have made a difference.

That said, he was looking at 1.4 dead terminators from my actions with average rolling. With slightly good rolling, I'd have killed off two terminators, and that would have reduced his charge range as well. Actually, if I'd have killed 2 terminators, they'd only kill 2.6 berzerkers back. Even if I'd only killed one, they would have survived with a berzerker or two left, and, given that they're fearless, they would have held off the terminators for another entire turn. Heck, might have even killed off another terminator as well.

Actually, this is making me more certain that I made the right decision. It was just really bad luck that saw them just horribly bounce the way they did.

minigun762 wrote:As far as changes moving forward, what about a small reduction in the size of the KB squads and moving those points over to additional fire support?

Sure, but what fire support?

minigun762 wrote:The other option would be large cultist squads for a screening unit and to eat overwatch or durable fast movers like spawn or bikers to tie shooters up earlier.

I suppose the problem with this is that I'm going to have to put my berzerkers further back behind whatever screener squad, so they might well have to spend an extra turn before they get into close combat, which I'd think would reduce their durability by at least as much as they gain. It also would mean I could infiltrate less forwards if I always have to have one of my D3 choices eaten up by some rather pointless cultists or spawn that could have been given to the terminators, or something.

Woo you won another killpoint game with a 5kp list. You played the mission well, did what you had to in order to barely squeak out a win, but what, exactly, is this supposed to tell us? This mission was again over as soon as you got first blood, if you wanted to play keep away you easily could've. Only 1/6 book missions are kp. At a tournament, maaaayyybe a third of the games will have kp. What do you do in a non-kp match? Ie. A large majority of missions.

Again, nice report. You put a lot of effort into them and it shows. Although, I still think the arrows are a bit much. Just show us the pictures as is.. I can figure the rest out with the ample description you provide in the text.

Well, you can always skip over the pictures.

As for non-KP, as mentioned in the afterword I'm not that concerned. Any game with purge, relic, or will is going to be a shoo-in. On odd-number of objectives, I could just play hide the berzerker for an easy win, but I'd rather not, as that would be boring and awful.

I'd direct you to the afterword of the previous game as well, as I went into more detail there and would rather not repeat myself. I'd also direct you this thread where a lot of things are hashed out as well.

All I've got to do on ANY game is to force a draw on primaries to get a win with first blood. With two primary missions, this is a bit easier, but it's still plenty possible with every other mission type.

Ahaha, I can't believe you won that with just Huron alive and half of his army chasing him down. Do you feel that you would have fared worse if it was a normal mission like *just* kill-points or *just* crusade?

Great read as always.

I like the pics, just not the mass of arrows. Just a suggestion

Ailros do feel like perhaps Huron just tricked a khorne lord into getting his forces killed to weaken a sector for a corsair raid? We need to get you painting so you can get back to writing the fluff. What is the remaining "style question"?

hippesthippo wrote:I like the pics, just not the mass of arrows. Just a suggestion

So, in 5th ed, I did the arrow diagrams with pictures taken between each turn (each player turn, actually), and then added the arrows. The reasons I stopped doing that since 6th ed is because it kind of interrupted everything while playing the game, and I also stopped seeing it as being all that necessary. The exact places that things moved to is irrelevant detail, and the only thing that really matters is the broad stuff - in this case, where the deepstrikers landed, and that my army largely rushed forwards into the ADL.

I think having some sort of overview is nice, as without them, I at least find it to be very difficult to tell what's going on where (indeed, one of the reasons I basically don't read battle reports despite being a prolific writer thereof). I guess I'd see some amount of overview and arrows or other markings as being necessarily less confusing compared to nothing.

But that, of course, doesn't mean it's not confusing at all. Sort of the holy grail I'm looking for is a way of giving out enough detail to actually tell what's going on (some times telling dice rolls and other events are actually necessary to the story), while at the same time not giving so much detail that it's a jumbled mess of information (like most battle reports). And the format for giving that information quickly and cleanly.

Talore wrote:Ahaha, I can't believe you won that with just Huron alive and half of his army chasing him down.

They didn't start chasing us until you turned on that getaway music!

Just go! Keep running!

Talore wrote:Do you feel that you would have fared worse if it was a normal mission like *just* kill-points or *just* crusade?.

*sigh*, okay, quick overview:

Purge: I bring fewer KP.

Relic: Absurdly easy to prevent opponent from getting relic. Easy to push onto secondaries.

Will: Likewise, super easy to force into secondaries.

Scouring: Go for the 4 objective. Get one other objective and it's likely going onto secondaries. Extra easy if opponent brings FA choices.

Big guns: 3 objectives - easy to push to secondaries. 4 objectives, still very possible. Extra easy if opponent brings HS

Crusade: 3 objectives - easy to push to secondaries. 4 objectives, still very possible.

The only thing even remotely problematic is 5-objectives crusade and big guns. Not exactly the most common thing. Even then, as the last game shows, I can do okay, unless, as this game shows, I get basically tabled.

This is the only thing that I'm still concerned about, not because I can't win, but because the easy win button is to put my objectives in a corner and just sort of win. Either I have 3 to his 2, and I play hide the berzerker, or I have 2, and I only have to contest 2 of my opponents' for it to roll over onto secondaries, where I win. Or, of course, I might actually take one or two on my opponent's side while I'm there with berzerkers.

So, the real question here isn't "How can I win?", it's "How can I win without playing hide the berzerker?"

ansacs wrote:What is the remaining "style question"?

What color to do the terminator power weapons. Having it be glowey doesn't all that much make sense because it would be a lone, small accent color, and I don't know how I'd do the fists. Having it bone-colored would be thematic, and I already have a bone color, but the glare of the brass makes the contrast rather low. Really, the bone only looks good next to the dark brown fur (with the red it was also fine, but not with the brass...). While keeping it kind of a steel or steel and brass thing looks... boring. And would be somehow kind of a let down, in a scheme that I already feel like a let-down for for not having it show off more painting skills.

ansacs wrote:Ailros do feel like perhaps Huron just tricked a khorne lord into getting his forces killed to weaken a sector for a corsair raid? We need to get you painting so you can get back to writing the fluff.

Well, my idea for my CSM has been floating for some time now of being led by Blingus Maximus. Outrageous, ostentatious and overly bombastic. The brass helps the motif.

The more I'm thinking about it more, the more I'm starting to like the idea that the warband WAS led by blingus, but that he's long-since passed, and that appearances are being kept up while the warband is being ruled by a handful of lieutenants vying for power. In this case huron wouldn't be huron, but one of the higher-up lords. Either wheeling around the ghostly avatar of blingus, or being in a competition with a khorne lord who is another one of these higher-ups, who just got suckered by the other one.

I think I'm going to keep a Huron-rules model as my warlord, and, as he doesn't have options, I can model one without fear of future changes. I'll probably make that model next, after these terminators...

 Ailaros wrote:

What color to do the terminator power weapons. Having it be glowey doesn't all that much make sense because it would be a lone, small accent color, and I don't know how I'd do the fists. Having it bone-colored would be thematic, and I already have a bone color, but the glare of the brass makes the contrast rather low. Really, the bone only looks good next to the dark brown fur (with the red it was also fine, but not with the brass...). While keeping it kind of a steel or steel and brass thing looks... boring. And would be somehow kind of a let down, in a scheme that I already feel like a let-down for for not having it show off more painting skills.

I sometimes use a metallic black for "evil" power weapons or sorcerer stuff. I then edge with a dark-rust blood color. The link is the metallic black I use.
http://www.amazon.com/Paint-Adamantium-Black-RPR-09124/dp/B001BRDJ22

 Ailaros wrote:

Well, my idea for my CSM has been floating for some time now of being led by Blingus Maximus. Outrageous, ostentatious and overly bombastic. The brass helps the motif.

The more I'm thinking about it more, the more I'm starting to like the idea that the warband WAS led by blingus, but that he's long-since passed, and that appearances are being kept up while the warband is being ruled by a handful of lieutenants vying for power. In this case huron wouldn't be huron, but one of the higher-up lords. Either wheeling around the ghostly avatar of blingus, or being in a competition with a khorne lord who is another one of these higher-ups, who just got suckered by the other one.

I think I'm going to keep a Huron-rules model as my warlord, and, as he doesn't have options, I can model one without fear of future changes. I'll probably make that model next, after these terminators...

I like it. That way every fight is a win for khorne and every model of yours that dies is a win for one of the shadowy captains.

Great Report!

You might have left the oblits on the board and used plasma cannons. They may have had cover (that whole azrael/shield generator/adl thing seems like an over investment) but half should go through and they were real clustered. You could have switched back and forth between plasma on the tac marines and las on the dread. This may also have drawn fire from the tac marines or vets and left you with more assault force. Or not who knows. Solid report although it looks like some pictures are out of order.

To your question about what fire support to bring, my first thought is to drop the Obliterators and trim some points to get a pair of Predators.

I understand they would be somewhat less durable than the giant squad of Oblits but they greatly increase your chance of getting first blood by doubling your long range firepower. My gut tells me that AV13 at range and in cover won't often be killed quickly.

 minigun762 wrote:
To your question about what fire support to bring, my first thought is to drop the Obliterators and trim some points to get a pair of Predators.

I understand they would be somewhat less durable than the giant squad of Oblits but they greatly increase your chance of getting first blood by doubling your long range firepower. My gut tells me that AV13 at range and in cover won't often be killed quickly.

I don't think Ailaros has any issues with getting first blood. His whole list is based on getting it.

There is almost nothing that can wipe out one of his units turn 1. Then turn 2 the oblits can deep strike and melta a vehicle for first blood.

I think the worry with the preds is that they would only be useful against other vehicles. The oblits are more versatile, which I think is a big bonus considering how focused the rest of the list is.

Correct the oblits are the easiest way for him to achieve First Blood. Otherwise, I don't care how survivable his units are turn one because if FB is still up for grabs turns 2 or even three, thats more then enough time for some armies to kill off one of his units.