Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

My questions:
1. If I am using troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them have harnesses, or can it be an empty pod?
2. If I am using non-troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them be in an empty pod, or can they have harnesses?
3. Do harnesses block line of sight?
4. Do open pods not block line of sight?
5. If I had harnesses for my troops in a drop pod, do these block LOS?
6. If I had an open pod for my non-troops, do these not block LOS?
7. If I am using an open pod for my troops, do I act as if the pod had harnesses, blocking LOS?
8. If I am using a harness pod for my non-troops, do I act as if the pod was open, not blocking LOS?
9. Does a friendly drop pod block LOS?
10. Does an enemy drop pod block LOS?
11. Do friendly harnesses block LOS?
12. Do enemy harnesses block LOS?
13. Do friendly open pods not block LOS?
14. Do enemy open pods not block LOS?

I am assuming that all doors are "blown open" when the pod deploys, and we act as if the doors are not closed for all purposes.

I have read all the posts I could find regarding drop pods, but none of these questions are answered definitively. Here are some of the posts I looked at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/480591.page
http://www.40kforums.com/vb/showthread.php/28303-Shoot-through-a-drop-pod
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/359938.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/jforum.page?module=posts&action=list&topic_id=415561&viewResults=true
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/318120.page

Thanks for your help in advance!

Simply put. True LOS.

Most of the rest of that is a question of modeling, which is mostly between you, your opponent and the TO.

 Ryan_A wrote:
My questions:
1. If I am using troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them have harnesses, or can it be an empty pod?
2. If I am using non-troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them be in an empty pod, or can they have harnesses?

Why would them being troops or not make a difference?

It's generally assumed that models should be built correctly, or if converted should not function significant;y different on the table as a result. So yes, if you're putting infantry in a drop pod, it would generally be assumed that the harnesses should be in there. Not because of the rules, but just because that's how the model is meant to be assembled.

If you're putting a dreadnought in a pod, it's a bit more of a grey area, since the only Dreadnought pod that GW have is a Forgeworld model. Some players just use the standard pod, some rip the insides out.

3. Do harnesses block line of sight?

Is there something that would lead you to assume that they don't?

All parts of a model block LOS.

4. Do open pods not block line of sight?

This would be covered by the regular LOS rules. If you can see through the pod to your target from your model's eye view, you can see your target.

If you can't, then you can't.

5. If I had harnesses for my troops in a drop pod, do these block LOS?

This would seem to be the same question as #3...

6. If I had an open pod for my non-troops, do these not block LOS?

Again, why would the type of unit make a difference?

The answer is the same as for #3.

7. If I am using an open pod for my troops, do I act as if the pod had harnesses, blocking LOS?
8. If I am using a harness pod for my non-troops, do I act as if the pod was open, not blocking LOS?

LOS works off the actual model on the table. At no point are we told to pretend that a model is built as something that it is not.

So if you are using the pod without the guts in, you will find it easier to draw LOS through it. However, see the answer to question 1 & 2.

9. Does a friendly drop pod block LOS?
10. Does an enemy drop pod block LOS?
11. Do friendly harnesses block LOS?
12. Do enemy harnesses block LOS?
13. Do friendly open pods not block LOS?
14. Do enemy open pods not block LOS?

This is all pretty much covered by this point.

Models block LOS. Friendly or enemy makes no difference, unless they are in the same unit as the firer.

I am assuming that all doors are "blown open" when the pod deploys, and we act as if the doors are not closed for all purposes.

That's a common assumption, and a fairly common gaming convention, but not actually backed up by rules.

If you put the pod on the table with doors open, then the doors are open. If you put it down on the table with the doors closed, then they are closed. There is no more requirement to open the doors than there is for, say, a Land Raider... although if you leave them closed, you're going to have a hard time firing the interior weapon.

RAW, insaniak is entirely correct: draw a line between the two points, if it intersects part of a drop pod model (however it is built or arranged) it blocks LOS along that line.

HIWPI depends on who you are playing with. Since drop pods have such a wide range of model configurations setting a "standard" configuration that all drop pod models count as being in is a popular house rule. For example, you might have a house rule that the doors must open and even if you glued them shut you can still draw LOS through the pod.

 insaniak wrote:
There is no more requirement to open the doors than there is for, say, a Land Raider... although if you leave them closed, you're going to have a hard time firing the interior weapon.

Interestingly the rules for the FW dread pod DO state that you must open the doors as much as possible.

 insaniak wrote:

 Ryan_A wrote:
My questions:
1. If I am using troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them have harnesses, or can it be an empty pod?
2. If I am using non-troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them be in an empty pod, or can they have harnesses?

Why would them being troops or not make a difference?

It's generally assumed that models should be built correctly, or if converted should not function significant;y different on the table as a result. So yes, if you're putting infantry in a drop pod, it would generally be assumed that the harnesses should be in there. Not because of the rules, but just because that's how the model is meant to be assembled.

If you're putting a dreadnought in a pod, it's a bit more of a grey area, since the only Dreadnought pod that GW have is a Forgeworld model. Some players just use the standard pod, some rip the insides out.

3. Do harnesses block line of sight?

Is there something that would lead you to assume that they don't?

All parts of a model block LOS.

4. Do open pods not block line of sight?

This would be covered by the regular LOS rules. If you can see through the pod to your target from your model's eye view, you can see your target.

If you can't, then you can't.

5. If I had harnesses for my troops in a drop pod, do these block LOS?

This would seem to be the same question as #3...

6. If I had an open pod for my non-troops, do these not block LOS?

Again, why would the type of unit make a difference?

The answer is the same as for #3.

7. If I am using an open pod for my troops, do I act as if the pod had harnesses, blocking LOS?
8. If I am using a harness pod for my non-troops, do I act as if the pod was open, not blocking LOS?

LOS works off the actual model on the table. At no point are we told to pretend that a model is built as something that it is not.

So if you are using the pod without the guts in, you will find it easier to draw LOS through it. However, see the answer to question 1 & 2.

9. Does a friendly drop pod block LOS?
10. Does an enemy drop pod block LOS?
11. Do friendly harnesses block LOS?
12. Do enemy harnesses block LOS?
13. Do friendly open pods not block LOS?
14. Do enemy open pods not block LOS?

This is all pretty much covered by this point.

Models block LOS. Friendly or enemy makes no difference, unless they are in the same unit as the firer.

I am assuming that all doors are "blown open" when the pod deploys, and we act as if the doors are not closed for all purposes.

That's a common assumption, and a fairly common gaming convention, but not actually backed up by rules.

If you put the pod on the table with doors open, then the doors are open. If you put it down on the table with the doors closed, then they are closed. There is no more requirement to open the doors than there is for, say, a Land Raider... although if you leave them closed, you're going to have a hard time firing the interior weapon.

I agree with you on all accounts. Thank you for your help.

I've been playing a Drop Pod army for some time, and have asked some of these same questions.

 Ryan_A wrote:
My questions:
1. If I am using troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them have harnesses, or can it be an empty pod?
2. If I am using non-troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them be in an empty pod, or can they have harnesses?

I assume by non-troops, you mean vehicles? In either event, the harnesses have no game effect, and are purely decorative. I don't include them; I think they ruin the model. If you are thinking of leaving yours off (I know several people who do when the pod is used by a dreadnought or artillery piece, to make it make more visual sense) then I can honestly say that no one has ever given me crap about it.

As to the rest, generally speaking, a Drop Pod is always going to obscure LOS (and grant cover). Even if you are shooting through a completely open drop pod to an enemy who is not obscured by any element of the pod (a rarity) I would still give my opponent a cover save. (Because I'm still shooting 'through' a unit. )

If the pod blocks LOS completely, then it blocks LOS completely. (Again, with doors down, pretty rare.) While I agree with your assumption that the doors count as open even if not modeled that way, (for convenience) as do the majority of respondents in this poll, there is a significant number of people who disagree (in theory) so be aware. The linked thread has some fairly lengthy (at times heated, and at times repetitive) discussion on the 'blown doors' topic.

In any event, I hope that helps, and good luck with your podding!

 Jimsolo wrote:
I've been playing a Drop Pod army for some time, and have asked some of these same questions.

 Ryan_A wrote:
My questions:
1. If I am using troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them have harnesses, or can it be an empty pod?
2. If I am using non-troops in my drop pod, do I need to have them be in an empty pod, or can they have harnesses?

I assume by non-troops, you mean vehicles? In either event, the harnesses have no game effect, and are purely decorative. I don't include them; I think they ruin the model. If you are thinking of leaving yours off (I know several people who do when the pod is used by a dreadnought or artillery piece, to make it make more visual sense) then I can honestly say that no one has ever given me crap about it.

As to the rest, generally speaking, a Drop Pod is always going to obscure LOS (and grant cover). Even if you are shooting through a completely open drop pod to an enemy who is not obscured by any element of the pod (a rarity) I would still give my opponent a cover save. (Because I'm still shooting 'through' a unit. )

If the pod blocks LOS completely, then it blocks LOS completely. (Again, with doors down, pretty rare.) While I agree with your assumption that the doors count as open even if not modeled that way, (for convenience) as do the majority of respondents in this poll, there is a significant number of people who disagree (in theory) so be aware. The linked thread has some fairly lengthy (at times heated, and at times repetitive) discussion on the 'blown doors' topic.

In any event, I hope that helps, and good luck with your podding!

Very good points, especially the "shooting through" a unit

Actually, the bit about shooting through a unit is irrelevant to a drop pod.

You don't get a cover for the shot going through a unit. You get a cover save for the shot passing between models in a unit. It can never pass between models in a single-model unit.

Firing through the pod is no different to, say, firing though the space between a Wraithknight's legs. It would only grant cover if the target was actually sufficiently obscured by the intervening model.

If I shot through a Wraithknight's legs, I'd give my opponent a cover save there too. Makes sense to me.

That being said, as far as the pods go, I think it's mostly academic. I've been playing pods (without the internal gubbins) for years, and never once had a shot in a situation to pass through the pod, out the other side, and not have the target obscured by the pod in any way.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it's a sensible way to play it. Just wanted to make sure the rules were made clear.

No where (that i know) does it say that it has to have the doors open or how many need to be open. If you want to block LOS extremely effectively buy 5 drop pods and give 1 locator beacon. Drop that pod first. Next place the next two pods in base contact either side. Closed. You have just made a wall in front of the enemies gunline which will be extended when the next two drops show (considering the 1st one isnt destroyed). If you give each a deathwind launcher and only put down the door or two facing the enemy you are now hammering his gunline with 3 to 5 st5 pie plates. Even if he destroys your pods they aren't removed so you still have a LOS blocking wall in front of his gunline. All for 275pts. That will usually disrupt his plans more than an equivalent landraider...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You never see mention in other posts about the number of doors that have to be open. And no where does it say it has to be all or nothing. If marines want to disembark from the left side of a rhino would the open the right hatch? Hell - if i parked up on a busy road to let my passengers out and they all wanted to get out the left hand rear door to avoid traffic, would they also open the right hand side rear door? No where in the rules or in real life scenarios do you have to open all exits to a vehicle to exit it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and one final thing before this gets a heated response along the lines of 'dont be silly of course its got to be all or nothing.' Are you expecting people to belive that a civilization that spans the galaxy, flys spaceships from system to system, has viral bombs that can wipe out worlds, produces super human soldiers, has weapons which fire god damn lasers and balls of magma energy that melt fortifications, have psykers who can see future events and giant god walkers that tower over the battlefield, cant program a single door to open automatically?

Poly Ranger wrote:
Are you expecting people to belive that a civilization that spans the galaxy, flys spaceships from system to system, has viral bombs that can wipe out worlds, produces super human soldiers, has weapons which fire god damn lasers and balls of magma energy that melt fortifications, have psykers who can see future events and giant god walkers that tower over the battlefield, cant program a single door to open automatically?

I don't know. What about people from a civilisation that give its soldiers a weapon that has a one in six chance of melting their own face off, has tanks with no ground clearance, builds transport vehicles that have missile launchers inside the passenger compartment, and who are using a whole swag of (by our standards) advanced technology that nobody understands or knows how to build?


All of which is ultimately irrelevant to the rules of the game, which simply don't address opening the doors anyway.

Poly Ranger wrote:
No where (that i know) does it say that it has to have the doors open or how many need to be open. If you want to block LOS extremely effectively buy 5 drop pods and give 1 locator beacon. Drop that pod first. Next place the next two pods in base contact either side. Closed. You have just made a wall in front of the enemies gunline which will be extended when the next two drops show (considering the 1st one isnt destroyed). If you give each a deathwind launcher and only put down the door or two facing the enemy you are now hammering his gunline with 3 to 5 st5 pie plates. Even if he destroys your pods they aren't removed so you still have a LOS blocking wall in front of his gunline. All for 275pts. That will usually disrupt his plans more than an equivalent landraider...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You never see mention in other posts about the number of doors that have to be open. And no where does it say it has to be all or nothing. If marines want to disembark from the left side of a rhino would the open the right hatch? Hell - if i parked up on a busy road to let my passengers out and they all wanted to get out the left hand rear door to avoid traffic, would they also open the right hand side rear door? No where in the rules or in real life scenarios do you have to open all exits to a vehicle to exit it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and one final thing before this gets a heated response along the lines of 'dont be silly of course its got to be all or nothing.' Are you expecting people to belive that a civilization that spans the galaxy, flys spaceships from system to system, has viral bombs that can wipe out worlds, produces super human soldiers, has weapons which fire god damn lasers and balls of magma energy that melt fortifications, have psykers who can see future events and giant god walkers that tower over the battlefield, cant program a single door to open automatically?

You made really good points. And nice strategy with the tri pod deathwinds, I'll have to try that out.

I am just really surprised nothing has been addressed by GW on the subject, I've seen a lot of discussions all over.

But yeah, thanks for you points, especially the tactics.

Thanks Ryan :-). Also good points Insaniak :-p.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
P.s. I also wish they would address this issue so I would know one way or the other how drop pods should work LOS wise since its a different rule depending where you are... Like having to ask 'do you play two shot carry or two shot straight' before a game of pool!

Just be glad you aren't a Black Templar. Their drop pods don't even require you to exit them upon landing.

I though locator beacons had to be on the table from the start of the turn to work.

rigeld2 wrote:
I though locator beacons had to be on the table from the start of the turn to work.

You are correct.

So the tactic he posted would only work if you're lucky. And that's if your playgroup plays as blocking LoS if the doors are up.

rigeld2 wrote:
So the tactic he posted would only work if you're lucky. And that's if your playgroup plays as blocking LoS if the doors are up.

Good point. My dreams have been built up and thoroughly dashed.

Ahh bugger!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually thinking about it - could still work to a lesser effect with infiltrating scouts OR on later turns with the latter two drop pods.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Ahh bugger!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually thinking about it - could still work to a lesser effect with infiltrating scouts OR on later turns with the latter two drop pods.

You'd have to put locators on all 3 of your first drop pods. You would have to have each one hit the same spot, and it would probably work within the first three, but that means forfeiting the placement of 3 pods for an effect that may or may not pay off, because he/she has one turn to move everything around.

Still could work though with an army, though you'd have to go all-in and pack your second wave for the sole purpose of blocking your opponent after the first wave.

 insaniak wrote:
You don't get a cover for the shot going through a unit. You get a cover save for the shot passing between models in a unit. It can never pass between models in a single-model unit.

The problem with trying to interpret that statement literally is that it makes "between models" very difficult to define. For example, consider a unit of three marines standing in a row A-B-C. Let's say you're shooting at a target between marine B's legs, where it is fully visible (let's say there's some elevated terrain involved). Do you just draw the "between models" area between A and B and then separately between B and C, or does the space between B's legs get included because it's between marines A and C? Now let's say C dies. Is the space between B's legs still "between models" because it's between A and B's right leg, or do you have to draw the "between models" area between the closest points on the models and only consider B's left leg? You're going to spend a lot of time trying to draw exact shapes around models to determine whether or not LOS crosses "between" models or not.

IMO the only way to make functional rules out if it is to generalize that statement a bit and assume that "between models" is meant to be taken more broadly. And if you do that it could very well include spaces between pieces of a single-model unit.

 Ryan_A wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Ahh bugger!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually thinking about it - could still work to a lesser effect with infiltrating scouts OR on later turns with the latter two drop pods.

You'd have to put locators on all 3 of your first drop pods. You would have to have each one hit the same spot, and it would probably work within the first three, but that means forfeiting the placement of 3 pods for an effect that may or may not pay off, because he/she has one turn to move everything around.

Still could work though with an army, though you'd have to go all-in and pack your second wave for the sole purpose of blocking your opponent after the first wave.

Why would you need beacons on all 3? Just put 1 down with beacons. Then turn 2 influence it so at least 2 pods show and plop them down either side of beacon pod. Creating a wall turn 2 in front of your opponents gunline.

 Peregrine wrote:
Let's say you're shooting at a target between marine B's legs, where it is fully visible (let's say there's some elevated terrain involved). Do you just draw the "between models" area between A and B and then separately between B and C, or does the space between B's legs get included because it's between marines A and C?

You're over-complicating things. If A and C are in the same unit, and the shot passes between them, it is passing between models in the unit. The fact that it is passing through another model's legs doesn't change that.

Now let's say C dies. Is the space between B's legs still "between models" because it's between A and B's right leg, or do you have to draw the "between models" area between the closest points on the models and only consider B's left leg?

Anything in between the outermost parts of both models would be between those models, since parts of those models are bracketing the space in between.

 insaniak wrote:
Anything in between the outermost parts of both models would be between those models, since parts of those models are bracketing the space in between.

But the rulebook never states that you define "between" by the outermost parts of the models. In fact there's IMO a better argument that "between" two models is the space between their innermost parts. For example, if you ask how far it is between two cities you generally answer based on their closest points (or at least their centers), you don't assume that you're going between the farthest possible points in each city. So by that standard the space between A's legs is internal within A, it is not between A and C.

Your argument just proves my point: the text of the rule alone is insufficient to define what counts as being "through" a unit, so you have to make some choices about how to define "space between". And depending how you make those choices the spaces between parts of a single-model unit may or may not be included.

 Peregrine wrote:
And depending how you make those choices the spaces between parts of a single-model unit may or may not be included.

Not without adding a new rule out of whole cloth.

Regardless of how you choose to define 'between', the space between the legs of a model in a single model unit is not the space between models in the unit. That can't be a space between models when there is only one model.

 Peregrine wrote:
For example, you might have a house rule that the doors must open and even if you glued them shut you can still draw LOS through the pod.

No one can disembark if the doors of the drop pod are still up. That's my house rule if someone tries to claim their glued-up pod completely blocks LOS

Super Newb wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
For example, you might have a house rule that the doors must open and even if you glued them shut you can still draw LOS through the pod.

No one can disembark if the doors of the drop pod are still up. That's my house rule if someone tries to claim their glued-up pod completely blocks LOS

Is that your personal house-rule or your groups house-rule?

And honestly, I would be perfectly fine with the guys inside not being able to disembark until the pod is destroyed. It means I get to shoot out of it and not get shot back.

 Happyjew wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
For example, you might have a house rule that the doors must open and even if you glued them shut you can still draw LOS through the pod.

No one can disembark if the doors of the drop pod are still up. That's my house rule if someone tries to claim their glued-up pod completely blocks LOS

Is that your personal house-rule or your groups house-rule?

What does it matter? For the record, it's not an actual rule mostly because I've never encountered anyone in the real world shameless enough to try to claim their (glued shut) pod completely blocks LOS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Happyjew wrote:
And honestly, I would be perfectly fine with the guys inside not being able to disembark until the pod is destroyed. It means I get to shoot out of it and not get shot back.

How can you shoot out of something with no fire points?

Super Newb wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
And honestly, I would be perfectly fine with the guys inside not being able to disembark until the pod is destroyed. It means I get to shoot out of it and not get shot back.

How can you shoot out of something with no fire points?

Drop Pods are Open-topped vehicles. Thus they every model can fire out of it.