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I did some trading and got some forgeworld stuff, they were new and even in official forgeworld packaging. I sold some extras on ebay and one got returned saying it was not forgeworld cause the casting color was off. I have used resin a few times and gone through several batches....there are variances in colors at times. So how do I tell so I know I'm getting the right items?

There are certain details to look out for in the mold lines and quality of cast. Some have argued that knock offs can have better quality so it is really hard to tell.

The colour is no indication as GW/FW switch up their mixes here and there. I have legit models with different colouring of the resin.

Be sure to make sure the kit comes with the original instruction paper and the forgeworld ziplock bag it was originally packaged in - this can help weed out the fakes.

Difference between fake and real FW kits?, one of them looks better then the other, usually the fake ones looks better...

Yup Irony...

As someone who has done a fair amount of looking into recasters and their models over the last 6 months i found some major differences.

With the exception of Neo Resin, recasts are not flexable when hot (usually) and are brittle at times.

The canopies are not very clear and are usually foggy

To save costs they dont have sprews nor do they have the same kind of sprews.

They miss bits of come with excess extras to the standard kit.

The above are just generalisations but some kits a very very hard to tell, whilst others are terrible. You can get standard GW models and put them next to recasters and not tell the difference sometimes. Its even harder with FW models because they can be warped and full of excess mold lines etc and tend to be WORSE out of the packaging then FW models.

All in all its hard to tell but if you can put it in warm water and flex it pretty easily then its MORE THAN LIKELY FW. If it snaps when you try then its recast. But even then because of the huge amount of different recasters this is not always the case.

Thats what i have found after doing a tonne of research and comparrisons and talking with people that deal in that area of money making.

Oh another thing to look at, if the kit is from forge world and has some plastic and some resin, a recast version will have ALL RESIN. So thats one huge way to tell.

Price. If it seems like a reasonable price. its a knockoff.

That's it.

 Orock wrote:
Price. If it seems like a reasonable price. its a knockoff.

That's it.

Not always. People selling them second hand sell them cheap for example. Also i have seen many recasts that are selling for far more then the original value. Sometimes cheap yes, not always. Never a good way of telling. Just a good way of being cautious.

Real FW kits are warped and a real PITA to fit together.
The fakes are usually a better cast.

I've seen a lot of recast FW/GW stuff from China, the biggest giveaway is when there are two mould lines. You'd think they'd clean the mould lines before they copy them, slackers.

dkellyj wrote:
Real FW kits are warped and a real PITA to fit together.
The fakes are usually a better cast.

I have to disagree, my FW iron hands just arrived in the mail and I must say they are perfect. I was expecting alot of wonky parts none what so ever.

 Yonan wrote:
I've seen a lot of recast FW/GW stuff from China, the biggest giveaway is when there are two mould lines. You'd think they'd clean the mould lines before they copy them, slackers.

I would have thought the bigger giveaway was that you were buying them from China...

Is it 25% or more discounted from retail?
95% fake
Does it come with with the forgeworld Ziploc bags? Good sign, paperwork is also a good sign.

Quality is next to impossible to tell, recasts can be just as good or just as bad, just depends on the production run

insaniak wrote:I would have thought the bigger giveaway was that you were buying them from China...

Yeah, that or Russia.

I'm sure that there are fakers outside of communist or former communist countries, but that would probably cut out most of them with that criteria alone.

I've ordered several hundred resin figure kits (not gaming related; mostly anime) from Hong Kong, Thailand, and elsewhere. Most of them are recasts and the sellers openly admit this. I also do quite a bit of resin casting of original sculpts for some local sculptors so know the process pretty well.

The really cheap knockoffs (usually from Thailand) add ground up leftovers from previous casts or even chalk dust to the resin to bulk it up without spending much money. It is often really dry feeling and super brittle.

You can look for spheres in the crevices of the details which where air bubbles when the mould was made which filled with resin when cast. Unfortunately one of the XV9 Hazard suits I got that is a real FW original also has these in the jetpack thrusters so it isn't necessarily a sign of a recast.

The double mould lines are a huge give away as mentioned above.

Also mentioned above is that the recasts are better than real FW models quite a bit of the time (but not always). A friend of mine bought three Avenger Strike Fighters from China for US$25 each and they are impeccable; absolutely perfect casts. The resin is soft and pliable like it should be (similar to GW grey plastic) and the clear parts are crystal clear. No FW bags, no instructions.

Personally, if it looks right and I save some money I could care less. I don't know for sure that any of the FW I've bought second hand is counterfeit or not but I've been suspicious of a couple (purchased from the US too).

I have bought recasts from china that were far better than the original FW kits of the same model that I also purchased. No double mold lines but definitely a different resin. I have a set of Tyranid capillary tower that are recast in the same resin that FW uses. Many recasters will openly tell you its a recast.

http://thediceodyssey.blogspot.co.nz/

We have done some looking into it so if you want info on our findings check out the link.

Posts of Interest are

Cheap Games Workshop Models Ali Express
The post you've all been waiting for
Even Cheaper GW models

The resin is usually more brittle, and less flexible.

Sadly, as others have stated...sometimes the quality is better.
(I order a LOT of forgworld for my group, and yeah....).

Also, many recasters dont have actual forgeworld bags, or instructions.

No FW baggage.

That's the one main giveaway.

As for the rest, the recasts I've seen have been BETTER cast than the originals. It's not hard to line up the mould lines on the originals and the moulds if you know what you are doing.

Lower prices aren't necessarily a giveaway. Some people just cut their losses to be rid of a pita kit (I know I did. Someone got a bargain on a resin FW valkyrie a few years BEFORE the plastic kit came out).

Lack of instructions also aren't a giveaway. That valkyrie kit DIDN'T come with any.

If it was better packed for shipping, it's NOT FW (FW didn't even use voidfill in the box I got that valk in.).

If the resin isn't warped, doesn't have as many internal voids (FW do NOT pressure cast, and large pieces often DO have internal air bubble voids. This has caused issues with customs here, as they are legally mandated to DRILL out suspect voids to ensure they aren't carrying contraband) and is a cleaner cast, it's NOT FW.

Well I guess my item is looking good now cause the genuine plastic bag came with it. The guy I traded with also has a receipt from forgeworld too. Ok, my next question is do recasts have excessive flash? My item is not a vehicle but a figure, pretty sure it didn't come with instructions. I just want to be cautious cause anyone can reuse a plastic bag.

Forge world usually has excessive flash in my experience.

A genuine FW item should have a label on the bag as well, with a batch number on it too.
(of the times I have needed to return or replace something with FW they wanted the batch number from the label - this lets them know who made it for quality control).

Regarding resin colors - while I would say about 80% of my fw stuff was of the same or consistent color, some items have been in different shades of gray or even white resin once.

If you are selling some of these things, just inform the buyers the resin colors can vary.

The color is certainly not a giveaway. I play Red Scorpions, and the first batches I bought of them a couple years ago were a light tan color. What I get now is in varying shades of grey.

 chromedog wrote:
FW do NOT pressure cast, and large pieces often DO have internal air bubble voids.

I can assure you that FW does use pressure casting.

Pressure casting doesn't guarantee a void free cast. I have cast many items with pressure alone and it still has voids and bubbles in it. When pressure is applied there are two stages to the bubble reduction. First the increased exterior pressure crushes the air bubbles suspended in the resin as they contain lower pressure air. This reduces the bubbles but doesn't get rid of all of them. Smaller air bubbles can be reduced to tiny holes which are often called "pin holes" when talking about resin casting. The second stage is when the gas in the bubbles are absorbed into the resin because of the pressure being applied. It's exactly the same way oxygen is absorbed into water allowing fish and other creatures to breath. The resin can only support so much air being absorbed into it and absorbs different gasses at different rates and pressures. If the pressure is relieved after the resin has gelled but before it's hardened it foams up as the gas is released.

Even with both these processes happening you would have to reach some pretty crazy pressures for it to get rid of all air bubbles; probably in the range of 100-200psi. Resin casting is generally done at 30-60psi which can only totally get rid of small bubbles; the larger ones just reduce in size (quite a bit but not totally). To make a totally void-free cast you need to get rid of as much air as possible in the resin and then pressurize. To do this you vacuum the tank to -29in/Hg which causes the bubbles to expand and rise to the surface and break leaving almost air free resin in the mould. Pressure of 30-60psi is then applied which can get rid of all remaining tiny bubbles and make a solid piece.

Without the vacuum stage before pressure stage there are often bubbles left in the cured resin. Without at least pressure casting there would be a crazy amount of bubbles and no details smaller than 1/8" to 1/16" would fill out at all. If FW didn't use at least basic pressure casting their models would all look like the surface of the moon. I've tried some pressure-less casting of block moulds and the parts come out absolutely horrible; far worse than the worst FW kit I've ever seen.

Most places that do pressure only casting have to manually "burp" the air before applying pressure. To do this you rotate or squeeze the mould to dislodge the largest of the air bubbles and the pressure can get rid of what's left. This requires a slower curing resin (usually 5-9min) as you need more time to work the resin. To use faster resins (usually 90sec-3min) it's easier to do the vacuum + pressure method.

The warping of FW parts is simply because they remove the parts from the mould after the resin has hardened but before it's cured. Uncured resin is like hard Jello and flops all over the place but is technically solid.

Here is the picture of the figure in question, when I had it there were no air bubbles I could see. Just flash that needed to be cleaned up and trimmed. Your opinions and responses is very much appreciated. I also added it to the first post as well

looks too dark for a recast i think you are safe. Plus recasts dont have the same flash between joints and so on. (that thin layer of stuff).

Yeah, almost positive that its not a recast, though I really have to ask, why do you care? The GW police aren't going to knock down your door and arrest you for accidentally buying a recast, nor will anyone really be able to tell its recast or not once painted, and the only people who're really going to judge you for it aren't really people worth knowing.

Smell is also a very good indicator, a few pieces I got off eBay had an exceptionally strong solvent smell to them. This is not normal and suffice to say they went straight in the hazchem bin at work.

Yeah, I hate to ask as well....

Why do you care?

If you are concerned that you did a trade and expected genuine FW, and it wasnt....as long as the resin was not too brittle...I would be happy.

I buy a LOT of fw each year (I am the guy who does group ordrers for my group) and while I am happy to support FW...I also come across a lot of recast stuff in my group.
(either unknowingly from ebay, or even stuff guys direct from recasters).

Sadly, I would say the recasters' quality control is as good or better than forgeworld.

Here is an intersting thing - a friend of mine picked up a hierophant a while ago..cheap. He got: an excellent cast hierophant, expertly packed - no instructions and no fw bag.

I looked at it...it was very good quality.

But one more thing......it had metal rods in it for support.
Yep, in the legs, when they cast it, they put metal in it.
(the heirophant is a bad design....its legs cant support its weight - builders usually have to chop it up and pin it).

These recasters not only did a near perfect cast with no warping...but they improved the design.

I.was.stunned.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, almost positive that its not a recast, though I really have to ask, why do you care? The GW police aren't going to knock down your door and arrest you for accidentally buying a recast, nor will anyone really be able to tell its recast or not once painted, and the only people who're really going to judge you for it aren't really people worth knowing.

I am asking cause I sold this item on ebay and the buyer flipped out saying its the wrong color and full of imperfections. Which I know it is not as I carefully looked at it before trading for several items.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

davethepak wrote:
Yeah, I hate to ask as well....

Why do you care?

If you are concerned that you did a trade and expected genuine FW, and it wasnt....as long as the resin was not too brittle...I would be happy.

I buy a LOT of fw each year (I am the guy who does group ordrers for my group) and while I am happy to support FW...I also come across a lot of recast stuff in my group.
(either unknowingly from ebay, or even stuff guys direct from recasters).

Sadly, I would say the recasters' quality control is as good or better than forgeworld.

Here is an intersting thing - a friend of mine picked up a hierophant a while ago..cheap. He got: an excellent cast hierophant, expertly packed - no instructions and no fw bag.

I looked at it...it was very good quality.

But one more thing......it had metal rods in it for support.
Yep, in the legs, when they cast it, they put metal in it.
(the heirophant is a bad design....its legs cant support its weight - builders usually have to chop it up and pin it).

These recasters not only did a near perfect cast with no warping...but they improved the design.

I.was.stunned.

Personally I don't care, the prices FW and GW make us pay is ridiculous....so are there policies towards LGS and bits selling. I am only asking cause I do not want to misrepresent the extras I sell on ebay. In this case the buyer flipped out saying its not FW and that it was the wrong color and had imperfections. I am allowing them to return it inspite of being 90% positive its not a recast.

I'm with a lot of the others here... Forgeworld has taken a lot of my money and given me some pretty awful stuff. I still buy it because you have to support what you like, but I've seen a few recasts and I have to say it is awfully tempting. I've had to heat bend stuff from Forgeworld back into the right shape, remove excessive amounts of flash and terrible mold lines. After a big batch, several years ago, I stopped buying from them after they sent me a bunch of broken stuff. Now I just buy it when I go to conventions where I can inspect them right there. They get a bit annoyed with me about it, but oh well. Finally bought my Gargantuan Squiggoth after passing on one with broken parts. I'd been saving awhile for that one.

If you're into Forgeworld stuff, I'd say still buy some, but I wouldn't blame anyone for buying from an alternate source. Just remember that if they make NO money, they'll shut it down. Then we all miss out.