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Time for some more Escalation goodness. So what happens when a gargantuan monster goes up against a super-heavy? Well, we will find out in this battle as the Ultramarines with a Warhound Scout Titan and led by Marneus Calgar take on the Blood for the Blood God Daemonlord, An'ggrath, along with Be'lakor and of course, yours truly, the ubiquitous Kairos Fateweaver.
The game will be taking place tomorrow (Thursday). I will be playing the role of the Ultramarines. Jason, one of our resident, young daemon players, will be taking on the forces of the Blood God. Now he has never beaten me yet one-on-one, but perhaps tomorrow, his fortune may change? In any case, I helped him to design his list into what I feel is actually a very strong Take-All-Comer's Khorne army. The question is, is it strong enough to defeat my own TAC Space Marines Escalation army? Who will take it....the super-fast and assaulty daemons or the shooty and durable Ultramarines? Coming soon to a batrep near you....
3. Fateweaver. Damn birdie hit the jackpot by landing a 2nd Pupper Master for his psychic power. That means each turn, I could be potentially shooting my own Space Marine army with up to 8 Destroyer pie plates! That's 4 more than what I could fire at Daemons!!! Moreover, his re-roll will play a large part in this game. With his re-roll, that means only 1 in 9 successful hits will ground a FMC.
4. Vector-strikes can actually do a lot of damage. That is potentially 24 vector-strikes that we also get daemons into better positions for assault next turn.
5. An'ggrath is nigh invincible to conventional firepower.
6. Void Shields will help them survive the Space Marine's 1st turn firepower.
7. Emperor's Will. That means objectives won't really be an issue for Daemons.
8. Daemons have got the mobility advantage. They can more easily get to the SM objective than marines can get to theirs.
9. Did I mention that they've got 2 Puppet Masters in the army? Well, that's worth 2 slots in top 10.
10. Lack of skyfire on the Marine's side.
Space Marines:
Top 10 Reasons Why Space Marines Will Win.
1. 4 Destroyer shots. Anything on the ground will be dead.
2. Marneus frickin' Calgar. Calgar is DA MAN! No marine will run away unless he tells them to.
3. Combat squadding = lots of bodies to survive the daemon onslaught +
4. lots of guns for grounding +
5. Lots of units for screening +
6. Lots of sacrificial units
7. With scouts in land speeders and the stormraven, mobility actually isn't too bad for them.
8. Ultramarines doctrines. I can twin-link my tacticals. Then with Marneus there, I can twin-link them a 2nd time! Like I said, Marneus is the frickin' man!
9. Marines are going 1st. They have a chance to cripple the daemons before they can even do anything.
10. Marines have a lot more experienced general behind them than daemons do.
Bloodthirster #2: Grimoire of True Names, +1 Wound, It Will Not Die
Bloodthirster #3: Armourbane/Fleshbane, Feel No Pain 4+, 2x Axes of Khorne
So overall, my opponent gets very good psychic power and rewards.
Ultramarines deployment. Everyone in their transports. Tactical squads will combat squad when they disembark.
Marneus and Librarian stay with the scouts in the stormraven in reserves.
Fatey and Grimoire-thirster to the right.
Be'lakor and regular thirster hide behind the central LOS-blocking terrain (BLOS terrain).
An'ggrath and Porta-thirster deploy out of range of night-fight (48"+ from my Warhound).
Overview of our deployment.
I then infiltrate my 2 sniper scouts in opposite corners.
Lastly, I scout my 2 land speeder storms away from my main army. I will use them to threaten his objective and hopefully, force him to redirect some of his FMC's.
Jason then goes ahead and steals the initiative from me. Doh!
Psychic powers/buffs (for most of the game, it would go like this):
Fateweaver - Grimoire
Bloodthirster - Invisibility
Daemons start flapping their wings.
I dunno....I think they've had 1 Red Bull too many.
All 4 FMC's advance. The very right thirster is the Grimoire-thirster.
An'ggrath and Porta-thirster only make it half ways, with the Porta-thirster hiding behind BLOS terrain.
Overview of Daemon movement.
Warpstorm causes 1 HP of damage to my left land speeder typhoon.
Now we go to shooting. Gulp!....
Be'lakor successfully casts Puppet Master on my Warhound. However, Fateweaver's attempt gets denied!
Ahaa! Fooled you, didn't I. You thought I wasn't prepared for his stealing the initiative?
I purposefully deploy my Warhound away from my Void Shield Generator. I then put my important units - my tactical squads - within the protection of my VSG. Either my opponent forgets about my VSG or he just wasn't aware of it. In any case, he fires my Warhound at the 2 rhinos under the protection of the VSG. The VSG depletes its Void Shields by absorbing 3 Destroyer hits. The last Destroyer blast scatters harmlessly away.
However, the Grimoire-thirster does manage to shoot down my damaged typhoon speeder to give my opponent First Blood.
An'ggrath and his normal thirster then run forwards.
Ok....time to bring the pain! I predict 2 very important daemons are going to go down next turn. Heh heh....
Ultramarines 1
Spoiler:
I use the Ultramarine doctrine to twin-link all my tacticals.
I disembark my marines into combat squads.
I form screens around my titan.
More marine combat squads.
I fail to hurt his thirster due to Invisibility, but I do manage to ground him.
Ditto against Be'lakor and Fateweaver as well.
I then decide to play nice. Instead of going after Fatey and Be'lakor with my Warhound, I go after Fatey and his thirster.
However, 1 Destroyer blast from my Warhound scatters and kills 4 marines and the other only does 2W to the thirster.
Daemons then catch a break. My Warhound fires at Be'lakor. 1 shot scatters off and the other shot only does 3W of damage. He still lives!
Daemons 2
Spoiler:
Ok, so we both whiffed with the Warhound. This turn may hurt for Marines.
Bad luck for daemons. 1 unit of bloodletters who comes in also mishaps into my marines and gets destroyed.
Another unit of letters mishap off the table and gets misplaced.
I then place them in a corner far away from the action and the objectives. They won't be a factor in this game.
Fatey and Be'lakor power up with the Grimoire and Invisibility.
Thirster swoops towards my objective....
....and kills 3 marines with vector-strikes along the way.
Marines killed in battle so far: 3
Fatey vectors 1 guy to death.
Marines killed in battle so far: 4
Be'lakor does 3.
Marines killed in battle so far: 7
An'ggrath and the Porta-thirster wipes out an entire combat squad with their vector-strikes.
Marines killed in battle so far: 12
Finally, the Grimoire-thirster vectors 2 marines to death.
Marines killed in battle so far: 14
All Daemons remain in the air.
Warpstorm doesn't do much.
Both thirsters take out another 1 marine each with shooting.
Marines killed in battle so far: 16
An'ggrath takes off 1 HP from a land speeder storm.
Daemons use Puppet Master to take out 2 combat squads with my Warhound.
Marines killed in battle so far: 26
The last Pupper Master aims for the rhino but scatters back onto the Warhound for 4 HP's of damage!
That's +1 VP to Daemons how taking out 3 HP's.
Another Puppet Mastered blast blows up a rhino and kills a unit of 1 tactical nearby. Another 1 tactical dies in the explosion.
Marines killed in battle so far: 28
Wow! More than half of my tacticals, gone this turn and daemons didn't even really have any shooting! A very good turn for Daemons!
Ultramarines 2
Spoiler:
I need for Calgar to come in but they don't.
Overview of the Space Marine turn.
Land speeder subtlely heads towards my opponents objective.
I disembark the rest of my combat squads. 1 lone tactical marine gets into a rhino, which them heads away from the daemons.
BTW, I use the doctrine to twin-link my tacticals once again.
I ground An'ggrath.
WTH? With less units to shoot, I actually ground all of his FMC's as well as put 1W on the Grimoire-thirster!!! Now the problem is, my Warhound can only take out 2 units!
At least I am able to kill Be'lakor with conventional shooting despite his 2++.
Now I have a decision to make. Take out An'ggrath or go for Fatey and a thirster?
I decide to go after Fatey and the Grimoire-thirster. My opponent catches another break here as, with 4 Destroyer shots, I am unable to put down either of the FMC's. Instead, I reduce both down to just 1W left as well as kill 3 of my own tacticals.
Daemons 3
Spoiler:
Daemons get 1 more unit of bloodletters and they drop into my deployment zone.
Marines are in trouble....
....because the big, mean red guy is in town.
Porta-thirster goes after one of my troops.
He drops the Portaglyph, which scatters all the way to the board edge.
Out pops 4 letters.
Instead of taking out the tacticals, his thirster pops the land speeder instead.
Fateweaver Puppet Masters the Warhound, who then kill a rhino. The explosion takes out the guy inside as well as 1 bloodletter.
Grimoire-thirster shoots down 1 tactical.
We then go into assault.
Bloodthirster assaults the combat squad as well.
The end result is a dead combat squad and the remains of my Warhound.
The ensuing explosion from the Warhound itself lands directly on the regular thirster and takes him out as well.
My opponent has just secured +3 VP's for taking out the Warhound. Along with First Blood, he now has a comfortable lead.
Ultramarines 3
Spoiler:
Finally, the Man shows up! Marnie in da house!
I start heading towards the objective. Snipers go after his letters.
Land speeder storm heads towards my opponent's objective as well.
I go after his troops.
Now I can go after either Fateweaver or his Grimoire-thirster. Both have only 1W remaining. However, because Fatey currently has a re-rollable 2++, I decide to go after his thirster.
So after 2 missiles, 1 multi-melta and 1 lascannon from the raven as well as 1 missile launcher from the combat squad.....the thirster is still standing!
Typhoon only takes out 2 letters despite firing 2 frag rounds and 3 heavy bolter shots.
Finally, I take out 4 cultists with the land speeder, the guys inside and my other unit of bolter scouts.
They then fail Morale and run off the table.
Scouts fire bolt pistols and take out 1 bloodletter. They then assault the letters....
....and wipe them out.
Not a great turn for Marines, but at least I was able to take out the Daemon troops on their objective.
Daemons 4
Spoiler:
Ok, this is going to be the last Game turn due to the store closing. We actually have to rush the next 2 player turns.
His last unit of bloodletters automatically come in and they on target near my objective. They then get a great 6" run and spread out to protect the objective.
Daemon movement.
Daemons shoot down my unit of 2 tacticals, leaving his bloodletters nothing to assault.
The Porta-thirster jumps and, with a good run, makes it to his own objective to contest.
Ultramarines 4
Spoiler:
Scouts move towards the objective.
Stormraven goes into Hover mode so that Marneus and his crew can disembark. They then shoot down 4 bloodletters with pistols and stormbolters.
The raven then shoots down the Grimoire-thirster.
I decide to run my scouts in order to get Linebreaker.
The final confrontation....
....leads to victory for Marneus and the Ultramarines taking the objective.
So Ultramarines have got 1 objective to 0 for Daemons. They also have Linebreaker (scouts) for a total of 4-pts.
Daemons have 3 VP's for killing the Warhound. They also have Linebreaker (bloodletters, Fateweaver) as well as First Blood (land speeder typhoon) for a total of 5-pts.
Daemons take it in a hard-fought battle 5-4.
Minor Victory to the Forces of Chaos!!!
This message was edited 15 times. Last update was at 2014/01/16 05:57:36
Despite him bringing a decent list I think you've got it. A grounded MC is a dead MC, he has almost no ranged attacks except for fateweaver and some token FMC shots, and his troops are rather soft. Your pods should be able to cripple his scoring units and if you go first you can nuke his FMCs on the ground.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 01:00:41
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To be fair, my opponent has been running daemons for as long as I've known him at our LGS. He's also improved a lot since I first played against him. I have been coaching him every time we've played and I will continue to do so for this game as well.
You can't go wrong with more troops. Also, combat squad and ATSKNF rocks! So too does Calgar's Chapter tactics and the abilty to let his tacticals re-roll to hit....twice!
I think a Warhound completely outclasses An'ggrath for the points and can kill him in one round on the ground. However, An'ggrath should be able to toast the Warhound IF he is able to charge. I think this is entirely dependent on if daemons go first.
I'm really interested to see how An'ggrath does because I love the model and have considered getting him for a long time.
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
I really wish I would have invested in the Apocalypse books as I have no clue what most of these LOWs even do. I voted for the Ultramarines just because they have so many units that can force a lot of grounding checks and once they hit they ground will be pulverized.
herpguy wrote: I think a Warhound completely outclasses An'ggrath for the points and can kill him in one round on the ground. However, An'ggrath should be able to toast the Warhound IF he is able to charge. I think this is entirely dependent on if daemons go first.
I'm really interested to see how An'ggrath does because I love the model and have considered getting him for a long time.
Yeah, the key to this game is how quickly marines can ground those FMC daemons. With Fateweaver's re-roll, it should take 9 units shooting to ground 1 FMC. However, the units will be hitting on 6's due to the lack of skyfire so some of those units aren't even guaranteed to hit!
But even more dangerous than An'ggrath is Be'lakor. Him taking control of the Warhound is what will cause the most damage for daemons. Also, it'll be interesting to see the Warhound go nuclear. That'll take out a lot of the nearby space marines.
y0disisray wrote: I really wish I would have invested in the Apocalypse books as I have no clue what most of these LOWs even do. I voted for the Ultramarines just because they have so many units that can force a lot of grounding checks and once they hit they ground will be pulverized.
Let me give you a brief summary.
The name of the game is Destroyer weaponry. "D" weapons are king. They kill everything, including gargantuan creatures like An'ggrath with ease. However, the weakness of most D weapons is that, other than the Necron Gauss Pylon, they can't hit air targets.
The Warhound can potentially fire 4 D large blasts at 2 different targets....but only if they are on the ground.
An'ggrath is a flying Gargantuan. He is almost impossible to kill by conventional means due to T8, 8W, 2+/3++, flying and FNP. However, he is vulnerable to the Warhound's D. But whatever he gets into combat with, he will most likely win.
But the key to a daemon victory isn't actually An'ggrath. It's Be'lakor and Fateweaver. Fateweaver for his re-roll. Be'lakor for his ability to Puppet Master the Warhound. If they can survive, then daemons actually have a good chance to win it.
I think the demons, if they don't get downed turn 1, are going to be in great shape with that many close combat monstrosities.
I might even consider reserving the warhound if you can't go first honestly.
Gonna be a tough game, but I gotta wonder, why do the marines have so much melta instead of plasma?
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
I could reserve my Warhound, but I probably won't. It's a fun game so no need to be too tactical. Besides, without any way to manipulate reserves, I'd hate for my titan to come in on Turn 4.
Meltas only outnumber plasmas in my tact squads 3:2 so it isn't too bad. The reason why I am taking meltas is because this is a Take-All-Comer's list and in Escalation, super-heavies are much more prevalent than gargantuans. The drop pod melta-squad is to come in and to try to take out any Void Shield Generators protecting the enemy.
I know you consider Be'Lakor more of a threat than An'ggrath, so I don't see Be'Lakor lasting too long here.
However one successful puppet master could do a lot of damage.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Going nuclear is fun too. The other day at a tournament I saw an Eldar super-heavy explode and take out its supporting wraithknight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/09 19:05:13
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
Yeah, Be'lakor will be my target priority. However, my opponent can minimize the damage by hiding him behind LOS blocking terrain. Then when he moves him, take advantage of any LOS-blocking terrain to deny me some of my shooting. It's better to have just 5 units shooting at you than 20.
Wait...what? There was a tournament that allowed Escalation? Was it a major tournament or just a small, local one?
jy2 wrote: Yeah, Be'lakor will be my target priority. However, my opponent can minimize the damage by hiding him behind LOS blocking terrain. Then when he moves him, take advantage of any LOS-blocking terrain to deny me some of my shooting. It's better to have just 5 units shooting at you than 20.
Wait...what? There was a tournament that allowed Escalation? Was it a major tournament or just a small, local one?
Yeah, just all depends on if there is LOS-blocking terrain, which there should be, but I'm usually not that lucky...
It was just a small local one with about 16 people. The store running it wanted to try out to see how Escalation went. It wasn't too bad as not many people had abusive models... yet. However, I know a couple people who have some on order, including Revenants and Warhounds...
Be'Lakor only can do so much when he gets a Strength D blast placed on hum Turn 1 when there is literally nowhere for him to hide...
Argel Tal and Cyrene: Still a better love story than Twilight
Well, fortunately for my opponent, we will take turns placing terrain ourselves, and I will ensure that there are at least 3 BLOS terrain, 1 for each deployment zone and a big one in the middle.
Yeah, it's still early for Escalation. Currently people are still buying their titans and still need to assemble/paint them. You'll probably start to see more of them a few months from now.
Thanks for the explanation Jim I knew what D weaponry did as I bought the Stronghold Assault and Escalation books but I haven't purchased any of the Imperial Armor books so I didn't know what did what. After learning what you've told me I'd still stick to my guns and say the Ultramarines are going to win just because as soon as something is grounded its going to die plain and simple.
Whewwww....what a game. Very fun and actually a very close game. I really did not expect it to be this close.
Just a slight preview of things to come:
1. Fateweaver got Puppet Master!!! So that's 2 Puppet Masters in the daemon army.
2. Marines went first....but then Daemons steal the initiative!!!
3. With my coaching, Jason played a solid game. As a matter of fact, I am proud of the way he played....with good decision-making and very few mistakes.
4. Get ready for a very explosive debut by my scratch-built Warhound. You could kinda say that the chemistry between him and An'ggrath was nothing short of nuclear.
Naw wrote: I will eat my hat if any of those bloodletters ever reach melee.
Lol. Actually they did....though both times, it was my marines charging them.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/01/10 08:13:36
There you go, nr 1 and 2 are reasons for a close game
I am not sure I shall count them being charged for this hat eating promise. Yes, I am chickening out. For the next game, swap them out of the Khorne list for some units that might actually be a threat? You had FW there also, so..
I like An'ggrath's odds against the titan, because a) he can fly, so can probably avoid a lot of destroyer hits, and b) once he gets there, he locks it in combat until he destroys it, preventing it from shooting.
Where he has his weaknesses is against tactical marines. He's barely better than a normal bloodthirster against them, meaning he'll kill a few, and win combat, but they're marines and know no fear, and it'll take him altogether too long to wipe them out.
An'ggrath is only really good when he has a high-price target like a titan to go after. He struggles against 2++ models like everyone else.
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