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Biovores/Spore Mines look like one of the rare winners in the new Tyranid codex, but they also seem to come with a slew of problems, vagaries, and poorly outlined rules (as is traditional for this particular unit/weapon).

Let's break it all down in this thread!

RELEVANT RULES:

Multiple Barrage: Once the first marker is placed, roll a scatter dice for each other Barrage weapon shot fired by the unit. If an arrow is rolled [blah blah blah]. If a Hit! is rolled [blah blah blah blah]. Once all of the markers are in place, resolve hits and Wounds separately for each, remembering to allocate any Wounds caused to the model closest to the centre of the appropriate blast marker.

Spore Mine Launcher: 48" Assault 1, Barrage, Large Blast, Spore Burst
Spore Burst: If, when the final position of the first blast marker in the barrage is determined, there are no models (friend or foe) under it, place D3 Spore Mine models anywhere under the blast marker so that they are in unit coherency and not within impassable terrain or 1" of an enemy model (any that cannot be placed are lost). These act as a Spore Mine Cluster for the rest of the game.

Spore Mine Cluster: Deep Strike, Fearless, Floating Death, Living Bomb
Floating Death: Spore Mines move 3" in the Movement phase and, when they Run or charge, move half the distance rolled. Spore Mines are never slowed by difficult terrain but must take Dangerous Terrain tests as normal. Spore Mines do not attack in close combat. Instead, at the the Initiative 10 step, the entire cluster detonates! To resolve this, centre the large blast marker over any one of the unit's Spore Mines. Every other unit (friend or foe) under the blast marker suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models under the blast marker. The Strength of these hits is equal to 4, but is increased by 1 for each additional Spore Mine in the detonating cluster (to a maximum of Strength 10) These hit are resolved at AP4 and ignore cover saves. Once all hits have been resolved, remove all models in the Spore Mine Cluster from play as casualties.
Living Bomb: Spore Mine Custers are non-scoring, non-denial units. They do not award Victory Points when destroyed, and Wounds suffered by Spore Mines in close combat (including those caused by a Floating Death detonation) are not counted when determining assault results.

Questions:

A unit of three Biovores is shooting. The initial blast marker scatter off the target. What happens to the second and third markers?

RaW: The Burst rule is very specific that only the first marker can produce Spore models to form a new Cluster. However, I see no actual rules text to suggest that the 2nd and 3rd blast markers do not go off normally. Meaning that if the initial shot only scatters mildly, you could produce a Cluster while still potentially hitting the target unit with markers 2 and 3.

Intent: Not clear. The fact that the Cluster can contain 3 mines makes you think that maybe the weapon effect is meant to stop there, in order to represent each Biovore contributing a single mine like in that last codex... although... maybe not, because now a single Biovore who misses can still produce 3x mine Clusters on his own.

I want to Deep Strike my Spore Mine Cluster onto an enemy unit. Is this even legal? If it is, what happens?

RaW: I'm still not totally clear about the legality of Deep Striking onto enemy units. The 5th edition kerfuffle over the Mawloc's Terror from the Deep is the best evidence we have to draw on. Pre-FAQ the Mawloc had no rule allowing it to DS onto enemies. Post-FAQ the Mawloc was given explicit permission to do so (with no clear indication that he was meant to be taken as a special case).

So for the sake of argument, let's skip ahead with the assumption that, yes, anything can DS onto an enemy unit. So what happens if Spore Mine Cluster does just that? RaW seem to say "a mishap, and nothing else." The rules for Clusters detonating only describe it happening in close combat. They don't blow up if they move near an enemy, get shot, or, apparently, DS onto someone's head.

Intent: It seems fairly ****ing odd that an orbital bombardment unit would be prohibited from orbitally bombarding stuff. Then again, maybe they're meant to be reimagined purely as area denial assets.

*******

Anyway, some of those functions seem weirdly counter-intuitive, but I'm imagining a lot of fun Spore Mine hijinks with this codex. Maybe not particularly powerful hijinks, but FUN ones -- seeding the entire board via 3x3 Biovores and 3x6 Clusters... camping objectives with 6-model Cluster units... precision-placing Clusters with some help from infiltrating Lictors... and so on.

When they explode at the initiative 10 step, do they get to pile-in first?

Pyrian wrote:
When they explode at the initiative 10 step, do they get to pile-in first?

Nope. The initiative of a Spore Mine is only 1, so they blow up earlier than their actual initiative step.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another curiosity is the mention of Clusters maxing out at S10.

The most mines you can get in a Cluster is 6. That means they effectively max out at S9.

Not to mention... doesn't EVERYTHING max out at Strength 10? Or if I had an 8-mine Cluster would it suddenly turn into a D-weapon??

Altruizine wrote:

Pyrian wrote:
When they explode at the initiative 10 step, do they get to pile-in first?

Nope. The initiative of a Spore Mine is only 1, so they blow up earlier than their actual initiative step.

You take your pile-in when your first attack is, regardless of your actual initiative, and this is instead of attacking.

EDIT: For something more amusing... They're rather specific about when the cluster is placed. After the final position of the first blast marker is determined. You don't determine hits until after all the markers are placed. So, you place the marker, place the cluster, and then blow the crap out of it. Obviously not RaI...

Wait - if I miss and place spore mines, They were "placed", and didn't "Deep Strike"...is there any prohibition from those mines assaulting on that turn?

What happens is YOU MISS and you place 3 spore mines within w/e the distance it says is. Didnt change from last edition AT ALL.

 Fxeni wrote:
Wait - if I miss and place spore mines, They were "placed", and didn't "Deep Strike"...is there any prohibition from those mines assaulting on that turn?

YESSSSSS

YOU JUST FOUND THE ULTIMATE SPORE MINE EASTER EGG

There is absolutely no prohibition. I typed out *every* relevant rule and didn't skip anything that relates to Biovores, Mines or Clusters. And nothing in that rule says that the newly placed Cluster has to act in any particularly way over the remainder of that turn.

Total FAQ-bait, but I am going to have fun with this for as long as I can!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bloodynecronight wrote:
What happens is YOU MISS and you place 3 spore mines within w/e the distance it says is. Didnt change from last edition AT ALL.

Except that your shooting phase is followed by your assault phase, and Spore Mine Clusters can now assault enemy units to detonate. In fact, it looks like that's the only way that they ever do.

Heheh, I'll let you assault with your spore mines the turn they land, so long as you hit them with the blast they appeared under specifically before it's resolved...

Pyrian wrote:
Heheh, I'll let you assault with your spore mines the turn they land, so long as you hit them with the blast they appeared under specifically before it's resolved...

Gladly! We are chitinous Space Skaven now, so it makes perfect sense.

Floating Death: Spore Mines do not attack in close combat. Instead, at the the Initiative 10 step, the entire cluster detonates! To resolve this, centre the large blast marker over any one of the unit's Spore Mines. Every other unit (friend or foe) under the blast marker suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models under the blast marker. The Strength of these hits is equal to 4, but is increased by 1 for each additional Spore Mine in the detonating cluster (to a maximum of Strength 10) These hit are resolved at AP4 and ignore cover saves. Once all hits have been resolved, remove all models in the Spore Mine Cluster from play as casualties.

Say 2 mobs of orks each have 2 models beneath the large blast marker of 3 detonating sporemines. Each mob suffers 7 S6 AP4 ignores cover hits? Ouch

Britneyfan12 wrote:

Floating Death: Spore Mines do not attack in close combat. Instead, at the the Initiative 10 step, the entire cluster detonates! To resolve this, centre the large blast marker over any one of the unit's Spore Mines. Every other unit (friend or foe) under the blast marker suffers a number of hits equal to the number of models under the blast marker. The Strength of these hits is equal to 4, but is increased by 1 for each additional Spore Mine in the detonating cluster (to a maximum of Strength 10) These hit are resolved at AP4 and ignore cover saves. Once all hits have been resolved, remove all models in the Spore Mine Cluster from play as casualties.

Say 2 mobs of orks each have 2 models beneath the large blast marker of 3 detonating sporemines. Each mob suffers 7 S6 AP4 ignores cover hits? Ouch

Awesome. The more ways you guys find to break this unit the happier I get!

So, strict Raw, you can detonate a Mine so that it covers 8 friendly Termagants and 1 enemy model and do 9 hits to the enemy unit (and 9 to the Termagants too, of course).

im pretty sure they meant each model under the template takes a hit and its just worded wonkey.


It looks fairly straightforward to me, and i see no issues with charging the spore mines after they land.

Basically if you shoot it and it hits, you get 3 large blasts with str4 ap 4. If it miss's the first shot, you get d3 spore mines that wil do 1 large blast of up to str 6 ap4 (assuming you get 3 mines).

Loving these scatter>miss>place spores>assault shenanigans, hopefully this doesn't get FAQ'd out!

Time to load up on Spore Mine models, I'm going to be deep striking units of them and shooting them all over the place from the backfield!

Reading the rule for hits it specificly says each unit takes a number of hit equal to the number of models in the unit under the marker.
Also it says you can place a marker over any of the mines, not all.

Assaulting Spore Mines in not that viable really, they'll die to most Overwatches.

You can't drop them onto enemy units. There's nothing that says you can, so you follow the normal rules for DS-ing, i.e. they mishap.

Not looking to charge them into units that will overwatch as much as charging them into CC with units that are engaged. Large blasts in units that have already piled in should be fun.

Huh, I'll be damned. It doesn't say they count as DSing, nor does it forbid them from charging, which is the usual case. This should be...interesting.

 Gloomfang wrote:
Not looking to charge them into units that will overwatch as much as charging them into CC with units that are engaged. Large blasts in units that have already piled in should be fun.

i thought they detonated if you deepstruck them onto another model considering their rules for living bomb etc.

There are no rules for Exploding on a deep strike mishap.

I have ran 4 games now using the new rules. For 3 of them i ran my 2 Biovores as 1 man broods. With the luck of good dice i had a couple turns where each was dropping 3 spores on either side of troops it was pretty devastating.

I hope they FAQ explaining for sure what happens to a brood with more than 1 biovore, for now i will continue to run them separate (well until i get more heavy supports that is)

Why would they need to FAQ how a unit of multiple Biovores? They work exactly like an other Multiple Barrage, except when you miss with the first shot you get to place some Spore Mines.

sterldog wrote:

 Gloomfang wrote:
Not looking to charge them into units that will overwatch as much as charging them into CC with units that are engaged. Large blasts in units that have already piled in should be fun.

i thought they detonated if you deepstruck them onto another model considering their rules for living bomb etc.

old Codex. New Codex they only go boom on the assault.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Why would they need to FAQ how a unit of multiple Biovores? They work exactly like an other Multiple Barrage, except when you miss with the first shot you get to place some Spore Mines.

Because some people will argue that you get d3 mines per biovore.

Yonush wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Why would they need to FAQ how a unit of multiple Biovores? They work exactly like an other Multiple Barrage, except when you miss with the first shot you get to place some Spore Mines.

Because some people will argue that you get d3 mines per biovore.

I think that part is crystal clear, and the actual blind spot is what happens to the additional templates if the first one scatters. RAW you continue as though it's a normal multiple barrage, but I expect the FAQ to say that once the Spore Mines are placed the barrage ends.