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2014/01/27 02:42:45
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
Yea SMS are really good. They where actually solid in the older dex, in the new one they are just plain better. I honestly don't care about the primarily weapon on broadsides anymore, it is the SMS that seem to do all the work for me anymore against infantry.
2014/01/27 03:15:34
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
Well, hey. At this point it's not even really worth discussing (this meta). Tyranids have almost zero chance against a competitive Tau/Eldar force, just like many armies.
Now I'm more interested in seeing 'Nids play against other armies, like the various MEQ armies,
2014/01/27 03:33:25
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
I don't think that's a very good Nid list to be perfectly honest. the backfield synapse consists of three zoanthropes, which just isn't enough. Also, no Venomthropes, and Genestealers are awful without Broodlords OR the dataslates... This is a min-maxed, optimized Taudar against a Nid list with little toughness and no real focus... I know Blackmoor is a good player, but that list doesn't seem great to me. At 1750, you could fit:
This list is a lot less dependent on reserve rolls (which did screw Blackmoor a bit) and focuses on a brick going up the center. Even if it decides to hold back, those Tervigons are going to be tough as nails near the Bastion. And Taudar lack anti-Bastion, where basically only the Wraithknight has a chance, and that isn't a given at all.
Basically put the Bastion in the center, with one Venom in and one behind (unless there's good LoS blockers elsewhere) and let your 4 ground MCs advance in cover. A buffmander can only affect one unit at a time! Or if playing waiting game, you can secure your half of the table while hopefully targetting troops.
I think it would make a better game than that army did.
2014/01/27 04:13:39
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
This list is a lot less dependent on reserve rolls (which did screw Blackmoor a bit) and focuses on a brick going up the center. Even if it decides to hold back, those Tervigons are going to be tough as nails near the Bastion. And Taudar lack anti-Bastion, where basically only the Wraithknight has a chance, and that isn't a given at all.
Basically put the Bastion in the center, with one Venom in and one behind (unless there's good LoS blockers elsewhere) and let your 4 ground MCs advance in cover. A buffmander can only affect one unit at a time! Or if playing waiting game, you can secure your half of the table while hopefully targetting troops.
I think it would make a better game than that army did.
Why would Reecius target the bastion? The last time I checked Venomthrope only a 5+ save making them easy pickings for smart missiles. Given that Reecius went first in this game he would just kill them turn 1 with smart missiles since they aren't in the bastion yet. Unless of course you put the whole bastion in your deployment zone in that case the taudar just out range and pick away at your army with impunity since you are castling in your own deployment zone.
Even if they get in the bastion I don't think you understand that most of the shooting coming from that studio army that they have been using ignores cover anyway from the guns, and then there is the buff commander.
Also a lot of that shooting doesn't punch 3+ saves anyway, which most likely will be what cover save will be as well. So it doesn't actually matter. The only wraithknight or maybe the ripetide with the HBC that novacharged for the rending profile will care about the cover saves on your MCs the rest don't punch your armor anyway.
2014/01/27 04:40:15
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
This list is a lot less dependent on reserve rolls (which did screw Blackmoor a bit) and focuses on a brick going up the center. Even if it decides to hold back, those Tervigons are going to be tough as nails near the Bastion. And Taudar lack anti-Bastion, where basically only the Wraithknight has a chance, and that isn't a given at all.
Basically put the Bastion in the center, with one Venom in and one behind (unless there's good LoS blockers elsewhere) and let your 4 ground MCs advance in cover. A buffmander can only affect one unit at a time! Or if playing waiting game, you can secure your half of the table while hopefully targetting troops.
I think it would make a better game than that army did.
Why would Reecius target the bastion? The last time I checked Venomthrope only a 5+ save making them easy pickings for smart missiles. Given that Reecius went first in this game he would just kill them turn 1 with smart missiles since they aren't in the bastion yet. Unless of course you put the whole bastion in your deployment zone in that case the taudar just out range and pick away at your army with impunity since you are castling in your own deployment zone.
Even if they get in the bastion I don't think you understand that most of the shooting coming from that studio army that they have been using ignores cover anyway from the guns, and then there is the buff commander.
Also a lot of that shooting doesn't punch 3+ saves anyway, which most likely will be what cover save will be as well. So it doesn't actually matter. The only wraithknight or maybe the ripetide with the HBC that novacharged for the rending profile will care about the cover saves on your MCs the rest don't punch your armor anyway.
The buff commander is one unit. Nothing else in the army will both ignore cover AND 3+/2+ armor saves. So Smart Missiles still take a while to kill an MC. Will they kill gants? Yeah. But if your Beasts last longer With a 2++ in ruins thanks to the Venom) then they can start hitting those Broadsides/Riptides back.
2014/01/27 05:07:33
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
The last two games only seemed close because I made huge mistakes. If I was playing sharp, I would have crushed them both completely. Plus, all three games the Nid player has had to hide most of the game, it isn't fun. =(
Nids are the worst codex I think I have ever read, no joke. I am still waiting to be proven wrong, though.
@Jancoran
I don't think he will ever make it into combat. The only reason we saw him a lot before this was because of Iron Arm and Endurance. That gave him a chance. Now? No way. Plus, he isn't nearly as good in HtH anymore. Forcing your opponent to reroll invul saves was the secret sauce that made him so beastly. Without that and Biomancy, he is dramatically less powerful.
Automatically Appended Next Post: @Jifel
If the Jetseer gets Misfortune and/or perfect timing, it;s the same deal. Plus, Marker Lights, too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/27 05:23:50
Maybe. But if you plan to rely on reserves heavily, you need a Comms relay if you dont take the Swarmlord. At that point you're adding 70 points and wishing you could just add that ability to a Hive Tyrant. And then you think "I can...it's called a Swarmlord, and it gets WAY more than the comms relay gives you". And so on.
So as long as you dont care if he's a flyer, then hey. He can play the same way as the Flyrants did in Jy2's army: behind terrain for large chunks of game, being awesome and then destroying anything that tries to take an objective past the midpoint (unless its name is Mephiston...but maybe even then if he can nerf leadership enough).
I suppose we will see Tyranid tactics grow over time.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Bastion is a MUST for either a Zoey or a Prime with the Norn Crown to best protect a good source of synapse. Once I saw Blackmoor's list I knew this was going to be brutal because once those Zoeys were gone everything else would fall apart. I would probably just drop two Zoeys and add a Bastion w/Comms Relay that way you will more than likely get all of your reserves turn 2.
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing
2014/01/27 07:52:16
Subject: Re:Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
The game was lost with the dice roll to pick sides. This allowed 2 things to happen:
#1. He go to pick the deployment zone with a 2 story ruin. This meant that he could place his Broadsides up there and my Mawlocs could not touch them. My deployment zone only had a couple of cans that 2 broadsides can stand on and the rest of them would have been lunch..
#2. Reese got to place the odd objective. That means that he has 2 objectives right infront of his castle and that I have to cross the table under all of that firepower to get to them. If I could castle up with the objectives in front of me and he has to come to my side of the table it would have been a different game.
Because of where the objectives were placed I had no choice but to try to overwhelm him on turn #2. If I can fly my 2 Hive Tyrants there and they could shoot 2 units, my Mawlocs could hit 2 units, and I would have my 2 genestealers squads outflank there (I had acute senses as a warlord trait). He can't kill everything and I then try to take out his troops. My plan fell apart when I forgot catalyst on my Hive Tyrant (who would have still been alive) and my bad reserve rolls. If I could have got all of my reserve units in on turn #2 the game would have been different one way or another. The fact that they didn't meant that I had to go to plan B and try for the turn 5 win.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reecius wrote: Or you take a Bastion and put a Zoey or Venom inside and Biodvores on the top?
What is going to stop a Wraithknight or a Riptide from punching it?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jancoran wrote: wierd how bunched up some of that stuff was, knowing the Riptides were running hot.
.
The buff commander is one unit. Nothing else in the army will both ignore cover AND 3+/2+ armor saves. So Smart Missiles still take a while to kill an MC. Will they kill gants? Yeah. But if your Beasts last longer With a 2++ in ruins thanks to the Venom) then they can start hitting those Broadsides/Riptides back.
He has a ton of smart missiles (Nova Charged Riptides). Also the buff commander gives him monster hunter so just one of his Riptides killed my flying Hive Tyrant in one turn. He also has a lot of marker lights so cover was never going to be a factor in this game with or without a Venomthrope.
I don't think that's a very good Nid list to be perfectly honest. the backfield synapse consists of three zoanthropes, which just isn't enough. Also, no Venomthropes, and Genestealers are awful without Broodlords OR the dataslates... This is a min-maxed, optimized Taudar against a Nid list with little toughness and no real focus... I know Blackmoor is a good player, but that list doesn't seem great to me. At 1750, you could fit:
The real important thing about all those batrep of nids vs whatever is how uninteresting they are in comparaison to most other front line gaming batreps (which are the best on the internet btw).
Reecius is basically just shooting, and the nids are just hiding waiting to get lucky and roll 4 reserve turn 2 (like here) or just see an opening to try and snatch and grab an artifact or contest an objective.
Tyranids have officially been demoted from a xenos army to a thief club.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/01/27 09:31:35
2014/01/27 13:33:27
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
The last two games only seemed close because I made huge mistakes. If I was playing sharp, I would have crushed them both completely. Plus, all three games the Nid player has had to hide most of the game, it isn't fun. =(
Nids are the worst codex I think I have ever read, no joke. I am still waiting to be proven wrong, though.
"RoTides"? C'mon, man!
Still, they were close! I agree with your first paragraph mostly, but seeing Nids face other armies, they don't seem to be the worst codex ever. Unless you mean least interesting... but not worst ever!
I played forrest-spirit-only wood elves in 7th ed fantasy, when daemons reigned supreme and negated all my ward saves. I once got tabled by daemons and only killed 2 models and I didn't think I really did much wrong in the game! So, I think "worst codex ever" is going too far.
It seems to match up fine / be very capable of beating marines, from jy2's bat reps. Maybe it's power level is in line with most of 40k, just not with Tau / Eldar.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/27 13:39:18
2014/01/27 14:25:42
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
I've already commented on the youtube page some of my thoughts on the batrep (which reece quickly addressed, he's on the ball with all this technological stuff!) But i'll re-address and add some here for discussion:
I asked why the mawlocs weren't doing anything in the batrep - as it turns out they simply failed apparently, and mishapped into the corner. My thoughts on this: Looking at the tau side of the table, it was a huge castle of models. If the broadsides were on the top level of a ruin, target something else - take out troops, put some wounds on a buffmander, get near the broadsides to try and assault the following turn...anything. As it stands the taudar would then have to turn and kill the mawloc, which draws shots away from the rest of the army.
Genestealers- Yes, SMS would have killed a unit of them with average rolling sure. But without markerlight support, maybe not. It's all in the dice. And either way, that's shots again not going at your dual flyrants swooping up the field. I still say that even at a potential loss, infiltrating them midfield between BLOS terrain would have been the better choice - it would have also caused TauDar to turtle up more, making more juicy target zones for the mawloc.
Bastion - What's to stop the wraithknight from punching the bastion? He's got to get there first, putting him in assault range. Taking some poison hormagaunts or lash whip/bonesword shrikes and hiding them nearby as counter-assault will make the taudar think twice about assaulting the bastion. Then a zoey can hide in there all day casting warp lance out of the fire port or just dominion to give a wide synapse bubble for the home zones. Yes the wraith cannons could shoot the bastion and potentially take it out, but that's again shots not going towards synapse creatures. Edit - I know Blackmoor DIDN'T take a bastion, but he could have dropped 2 of the zoeys and done so with a comm's relay. the biovores could have hid behind it and lobbed spore mines.
Nids are going to lose models in every game - it's just a matter of making the enemy choose WHICH models to kill and then using the others to your best benefit. They're certainly not easy to play (though they really haven't been, since tau and eldar hit the meta, even with Biomancy) but they have tools that can compete.
I'll be getting in some more games in the next few weeks than i had been here locally (West Virginia, woo!). If i can manage i'll try to post a batrep or two up here on dakka for others to pick apart and scrutinize. I know an Eldar player who almost always beats me with his DE/Eldar...Maybe i'll poke the bear and see how it goes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/27 14:42:47
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2014/01/27 15:20:28
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
The 11 Termagants + 13 Devilgants are actually 1 big, mixed unit.
Ok thanks, in the video breakdown they were listed as seperate enteries
I still think horde is the only way to run against tau. They have amazing shooting yes, so you need to make their shots less point efficient by using cheap bodies. I think a hormagaunt tide might have merit with proper support.
tetrisphreak wrote: I've already commented on the youtube page some of my thoughts on the batrep (which reece quickly addressed, he's on the ball with all this technological stuff!) But i'll re-address and add some here for discussion:
I asked why the mawlocs weren't doing anything in the batrep - as it turns out they simply failed apparently, and mishapped into the corner. My thoughts on this: Looking at the tau side of the table, it was a huge castle of models. If the broadsides were on the top level of a ruin, target something else - take out troops, put some wounds on a buffmander, get near the broadsides to try and assault the following turn...anything. As it stands the taudar would then have to turn and kill the mawloc, which draws shots away from the rest of the army.
My first thought was to kill his troops with the Mawlocs, but he was really spread out so I might have gotten 2-3 fire warriors even if I managed to roll a hit. Remember that you only hit a third of the time with them. Then if it hit something or not most of the time it will be placed on the table where his fire warriors will make quick work of them. I think you are underestimating how hit-or-miss the Mawlocs are. So I placed them in my corner of the board and burrowed them on turn #4 for a turn 5 win.
Genestealers- Yes, SMS would have killed a unit of them with average rolling sure. But without markerlight support, maybe not. It's all in the dice. And either way, that's shots again not going at your dual flyrants swooping up the field. I still say that even at a potential loss, infiltrating them midfield between BLOS terrain would have been the better choice - it would have also caused TauDar to turtle up more, making more juicy target zones for the mawloc.
He can kill infiltrating genestealers without working up a sweat. Remember he went first and had no other targets turn #1.
Bastion - What's to stop the wraithknight from punching the bastion? He's got to get there first, putting him in assault range. Taking some poison hormagaunts or lash whip/bonesword shrikes and hiding them nearby as counter-assault will make the taudar think twice about assaulting the bastion. Then a zoey can hide in there all day casting warp lance out of the fire port or just dominion to give a wide synapse bubble for the home zones. Yes the wraith cannons could shoot the bastion and potentially take it out, but that's again shots not going towards synapse creatures. Edit - I know Blackmoor DIDN'T take a bastion, but he could have dropped 2 of the zoeys and done so with a comm's relay. the biovores could have hid behind it and lobbed spore mines.
Here is an equation for you bastion lovers: Wraithknight+Buffmander=2 shots strength 10+Tankhunter+Ignore Cover (Guide from Farseer)
That said, I am still thinking about adding bastion with a comms relay for the other armies.
2014/01/27 17:27:27
Subject: Warhammer 40K Video Bat Rep Taudar vs Tyranids (Blackmoor vs Reecius)
Here is an equation for you bastion lovers: Wraithknight+Buffmander=2 shots strength 10+Tankhunter+Ignore Cover (Guide from Farseer)
That said, I am still thinking about adding bastion with a comms relay for the other armies.
Sorry, can't happen. Buffmander cannot join the WK because he is a unit of 1.
What about the Riptide with the Ion Cannon then? I think you can Nova charge it to strength 9 ordinance. That means that you have 2 rolls to pen with a re-rolls with tank hunter (and still shots from the wraithknight)
-5000 Pts. of Orks
-1750 Pts. of Ravenwing 
and I didn't think I really did much wrong in the game! So, I think "worst codex ever" is going too far.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
