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I play eldar, and am hoping for some clarification. Specifically the terrify power. it forces a morale check on a unit. this is described just fine in the book for all units except FMC.
If used and successful on the psykic check what would the result be? a normal unit if it fails morale will fall back the listed distance. but FMC do not list one. they also do not list any immunity to morale checks. or pinning. same situation really. what would happen? i run eldar psyker heavy, and plan to mess with the psychic pilot flyer. the only weapon they have to use against other air units is the terrify power. but i really dont want to spring this on someone without a better idea of what would happen. is there a rule somewhere that makes them immune?
Also, if they do fall off the board from falling back, do they count as destroyed, or would it be similar to flying off the table while swooping, and return to ongoing reserves?

i would also like to know this, I'm about to start using belakor and play against nids alot. what happens when he uses terrify against a fmc?

FMC move like jump infantry, and so would fall back the same distance.

FMCs move like Jump units, falling back is considered movement, therefore FMCs fall back like Jump units.
Falling back off the board: "It's quite likely that a Flying Monstrous Creature will leave the board whilst Swooping... If this happens, whether deliberate or not, the unit is said to have left combat airspace - it then enters Ongoing Reserves." Even if it isn't deliberate, a FMC that leaves the board while swooping always enters Ongoing Reserves.

Ok, had a perusal of the rules. FMCs are not fearless by default, and so take the test as normal.

If they fail the test, they move back 3D6 inches straight towards their board edge, as they retain their turns flight mode and they then move like a Jump MC.

If they leave the board the rules for them specifically state that whether they left it on their own accord or not, they head into Ongoing Reserves.

Glad i could help


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah yes, he goes into ongoing ONLY if he is swooping. Gliding he bites the big one.

does it then re-enter on the following player turn or game turn?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also does the FMC become grounded? which direction is he facing after the move?

 zachwho wrote:
does it then re-enter on the following player turn or game turn?

"Units in Ongoing Reserve always re-enter play at the start of their controlling player's following turn,"

Automatically Appended Next Post:
also does the FMC become grounded? which direction is he facing after the move?

No, as Terrify is not a shooting attack. Whichever direction he will be forced to face after pivoting up to 90 degrees towards their own table.

How would synapse interfere here? If you're within synapse range before fleeing, you automatically regroup. I guess it's intended for the next movement phase of the unit, when it'd "flee" a second time but I'm unsure

After grabbing my books, immediatly after failing a Morale test you're falling back, and synapse states that if a (tyranid) unit is falling back and is in synapse range before moving, it automatically regroups.
I must be missing something ...

They regroup after the fall back move.

Except you never regroup after the move, you always (normally) test beforehand.

I think we are using different terms here. A regroup only takes place after the fall back. Fearless means you auto pass the initial test.

The way it works is take leadership, fall back if failed, then regroup if possible.

Marines with ATSKNF do the same thing. You hit them, they take a leadership and If failed fall back. Then they immediately regroup.

Not having the nid codex on me at the moment, if their rule says something like "automatically regroup" then they would take the leadership check and fall back if it fails. If they happen to run off the board then they are dead ( exempting swooping MC due to the weird rules as shown further up ). If they don't run off the board then they regroup.


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The before moving part is referencing the timing as a regroup test takes place at the beginning of your movement phase. So if the nids run in your opponents shooting, at the beginnin of your movement they regroup.

clively wrote:
I think we are using different terms here. A regroup only takes place after the fall back. Fearless means you auto pass the initial test.

The way it works is take leadership, fall back if failed, then regroup if possible.

Marines with ATSKNF do the same thing. You hit them, they take a leadership and If failed fall back. Then they immediately regroup.

Not having the nid codex on me at the moment, if their rule says something like "automatically regroup" then they would take the leadership check and fall back if it fails. If they happen to run off the board then they are dead ( exempting swooping MC due to the weird rules as shown further up ). If they don't run off the board then they regroup.


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The before moving part is referencing the timing as a regroup test takes place at the beginning of your movement phase. So if the nids run in your opponents shooting, at the beginnin of your movement they regroup.

Synapse specifies that if you're falling back, and you're in synapse before the movement, you automatically regroup.
Immediatly after failing the Ld test, you're falling back. A tyrant for example would always be in synapse range if you Terrify it. Provided it fails the test, it'd fall back immediatly. But before the fall back move, it's in its own Synapse range. Wouldn't it automatically regroup, and thus never "fall back" (the moving part of it)?

 Imperator_Class wrote:



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Ah yes, he goes into ongoing ONLY if he is swooping. Gliding he bites the big one.

This is the question though. if they are falling back, which way are they moving? they only move as jump units if they are gliding. terrify doesnt give/have permission to change their movement mode specifically, so if they are swooping and hit with terrify, then fail morale, are they then forced to be gliding while falling back? no fall back is listed for them as swooping. If they ARE gliding, doesnt that mean they are shootable by other units without keeping hard to hit?

As for synapse and automatically regrouping. does synapse let them regroup on its own, or is it because being within synapse grants fearless? because terrify removes fearless until the end of the turn. so should prevent the auto-regroup. if its synapse though then im not sure quite how that would work.

 Stearic wrote:

 Imperator_Class wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah yes, he goes into ongoing ONLY if he is swooping. Gliding he bites the big one.

As for synapse and automatically regrouping. does synapse let them regroup on its own, or is it because being within synapse grants fearless? because terrify removes fearless until the end of the turn. so should prevent the auto-regroup. if its synapse though then im not sure quite how that would work.

That's the thing. Synapse grants fearless AND that auto-regroup I'm talking about

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Ok, had a perusal of the rules. FMCs are not fearless by default, and so take the test as normal.

Seems the OP was specifically talking about Terrify, though, I assume through use of a Hemlock Wraithfighter. Part of that psychic ability is that is strips Fearless and any other thing that grants immunity to fear is ignored. You HAVE to take a morale check if hit with Terrify, end of story.

 SRSFACE wrote:

 Imperator_Class wrote:
Ok, had a perusal of the rules. FMCs are not fearless by default, and so take the test as normal.

Seems the OP was specifically talking about Terrify, though, I assume through use of a Hemlock Wraithfighter. Part of that psychic ability is that is strips Fearless and any other thing that grants immunity to fear is ignored. You HAVE to take a morale check if hit with Terrify, end of story.

Noone claimed you didn't have to take the check, but the fall back move isn't clear. Also terrify doesn't "strip any other thing that grants immunity to fear". The unit loses Fearless and treats everything as causing fear, Nothing else.ATSKNF ignores fear, and still works on a Terrified unit.

You're right, Bob. That's just how I had it remembered in my head.

90% of my posts are while I'm at work in between what I do. I should probably start bringing my mini-BRB with me so I'm not just relying on my very scattered memory on how things work.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Whichever direction he will be forced to face after pivoting up to 90 degrees towards their own table.

Can you explain this a bit more? Falling back is always directly toward the appropriate table edge. This would be NOT following those directions. Why is this acceptable?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Whichever direction he will be forced to face after pivoting up to 90 degrees towards their own table.

Can you explain this a bit more? Falling back is always directly toward the appropriate table edge. This would be NOT following those directions. Why is this acceptable?

It is a case of must vs cannot. The unit must run towards the appropriate board edge. A swooping FMC cannot pivot more than 90 degrees (and must move forward).

Swooping falling back and pivot is likely overlooked as for some reason brb doesn't recognise a case where swooping FMC's can fall back at all ( listed as NA in reference ). HIWPI is pivot 90 and move full there, or just pivot it whatever to get it in the correct direction. Probably the latter, towards the owners edge. Though a case could be made for no pivot at all. The rules really do not line up well for swooping MC and falling back.

As for synapse, imo the unit would fall back due to terrify then auto regroup next movement. After failing a moral check you immediately fall back, and regrouping isn't an option until the next movement. (pages 29 to 31). It is less clear, though I believe to be' falling back' you have already made one move.

I would think the FMC still falls back in a straight line toward their board edge. I am not 100% sure on the wording so you guys who have the book on you tell me if I'm wrong or not, but the case for pivoting 90 degrees is entirely something dealing with the movement phase, correct? Falling back is not the movement phase, and so I think you would use the rules for jump units in it's entirety.

 SRSFACE wrote:
but the case for pivoting 90 degrees is entirely something dealing with the movement phase, correct?

Nope, it's whenever it moves.

There used to be an FAQ on nids falling back and it said they automatically regrouped once in synapse range but I actually don't see any nid FAQ up right now so who knows? Don't have my codex on me right now either though.
I know they are not exactly the same but you could treat it like GTG as both are states disallowed to a fearless model.

Q: If a unit has the Fearless special rule applied to them while they
have Gone to Ground, are the effects of Go to Ground immediately
cancelled (for example, if this were to occur at the start of their turn
could those units then move, shoot etc. as normal in the appropriate
phases?) (p35)
A: Yes.

 Nem wrote:
Swooping falling back and pivot is likely overlooked as for some reason brb doesn't recognise a case where swooping FMC's can fall back at all ( listed as NA in reference ). .

Or you can take that as a FMC that is swooping cannot Fall Back.

Thus you can only handle it one of 2 ways:

A.He is immune to falling back while swooping.

B.If he is forced to fall back he immediately enters glide mode and falls back 3d6 then regroups.

Sidebar about FMCs who are falling back and hit the board edge. They do not enter Ongoing Reserves. They are destroyed.

BRB p.30
If any model from a unit that is falling back moves into contact with a table edge, the entire unit is removed from the game as casualties, as it scatters and flees the battle.

p.49
It's quite likely that a Flying Monstrous Creature will leave the board whilst Swooping. Indeed it can, unlike other units, deliberately do so. If this happens, whether deliberate or not, the unit is said to have left combat airspace - it then enters Ongoing Reserves (see page 125)

Unless I'm missing something, it must come into contact with a board edge before it can leave it, if moving normally. If falling back, the moment it comes into contact with the board edge, it dies. Have I missed something?

Eihnlazer wrote:


Thus you can only handle it one of 2 ways:

A.He is immune to falling back while swooping.

B.If he is forced to fall back he immediately enters glide mode and falls back 3d6 then regroups.

Why would it need to or be forced to glide while falling back?

Since they are described as 'moving like' a jump unit they follow the jump unit rules.

They use their jump packs and move 3d6

 Jimsolo wrote:
Sidebar about FMCs who are falling back and hit the board edge. They do not enter Ongoing Reserves. They are destroyed.

BRB p.30
If any model from a unit that is falling back moves into contact with a table edge, the entire unit is removed from the game as casualties, as it scatters and flees the battle.

p.49
It's quite likely that a Flying Monstrous Creature will leave the board whilst Swooping. Indeed it can, unlike other units, deliberately do so. If this happens, whether deliberate or not, the unit is said to have left combat airspace- it then enters Ongoing Reserves (see page 125)

Unless I'm missing something, it must come into contact with a board edge before it can leave it, if moving normally. If falling back, the moment it comes into contact with the board edge, it dies. Have I missed something?

The underlined part causes the question. How does a FMC leave the board edge if it does not do so deliberately? What can force the FMC to leave against its will? Whatever caused it to leave against its will causes it to go into Ongoing Reserves. Which conflicts with the fall back rule. So which is more specific?

Falling back is part of the general rules for all units, Swooping is a more specific rule for only Flying Monstrous Creatures.