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Hi guys!

Im painting Lanyssa Ryssyll and i wanted to go with a 'Winter' Theme, especially with the cloak. Unfortunatly i cant really make it work...

The three pictures show how far ive gotten. 1 is the initial attempt using (P3) Morrow White, Frostbite, meridius blue, Ironhull grey, Coal black, (CD'A) Light Blue, Shadow Grey
2 I got rid of Meridius and
3 i added a Light Grey wash followed by a blue wash

So far i feel its improved (ignore how the paint is slapped on the feathers, this is a flawed test mini, not touching the proper one until im sure) but it looks more watery than Icy.

Can anyone suggest some ideas how to give it an icer, frostier look? i'm ok with adding to this or starting again with a new pattern/set of colors.

Thanks in advance

Anyone? i'll take bad advice as well as good

I think you're on the right track. The latest version is starting to come together.
I think you should start pulling some detail back out with highlights, going to almost white in some areas. You can always knock it back a bit again with more washes.

I quite like the last picture actually. If you want a colder look maybe just go light grey, near white, and white blue?

Now that I just read what I wrote that sounds like terrible advice haha nevertheless I think just using lighter blues and lighter greys would do the trick. Maybe some pure white highlights as well

The third attempt is getting there. You need to highlight (even better wetblend) to pure white and also imho get rid of the darkest greyish color.

Not my pic BTW.



Just a case really of sticking to blue tones, but alot of blending and making sure to use white to really make it pop.

Wow, thanks for all the replies!

Ok, now im just a newbie at this and ive heard the phrase 'highlight back to base/midtone' before but i'm not sure exactly what it means, i sorta know what highlights are (currently my experiments have gone as far as washes and drybrushing) but how do i 'Highlight back to white'? because putting more white in there sounds like a great way to make it colder but i dont want to screw this up!

Sorry if this is an obvious question but i'm really not up on the terminology just yet.


Wow, those Ice Elementals are awesome! doubt i could get anywhere near that effect but as an inspiration its a winner!

You would be AMAZED at what the Guilliman Blue glaze from GW would do for that cloak. Before glazing it I would try mixing bright silver paint with clear blue paint and giving the cloak a dry brushing with it. You may also try a light spritzing of glue and adding some crushed glass snow effect. Try this on a different surface first to be sure you like it and don't forget to post your results!

 Darianblood wrote:

Ok, now im just a newbie at this and ive heard the phrase 'highlight back to base/midtone' before but i'm not sure exactly what it means, i sorta know what highlights are (currently my experiments have gone as far as washes and drybrushing) but how do i 'Highlight back to white'? because putting more white in there sounds like a great way to make it colder but i dont want to screw this up!

The phrase refers to reclaiming shaded areas back to your basecoat colour. For example, if you basecoat Underbelly Blue, and shade it blue, there may be overshading, i.e. your Underbelly Blue has become rather too blue. So, one applies more Underbelly Blue, leaving the bluest blues in the deepest recesses, thereby reclaiming the majority of colour back to Underbelly Blue, yet still showing your blue shades in the deepest recesses.

To highlight back to white simply indicates pushing your highlights to white. This is usually done in order to create greater contrast. Returning to the previous example, now that one has basecoated Underbelly Blue, shaded blue, and then reclaimed the basecoat, one would continue to highlight with Underbelly Blue/Frostbite mix, then pure Frostbite, and then finally Frostbite/Morrow White for some very small, pinpoint highlights.

The final pic you posted is on the way to this. I would suggest that you pick out the extreme tips of the feathers on the cloak with a 'highlight back to white' as described above. The cloak may also benefit with a very dilute wash of Blue Ink/Coal Black mix, applied directly and in a very controlled manner to the recesses (at the intersections separating the cloak's feathers).

Does that all make sense?

gohkm wrote:

 Darianblood wrote:

Ok, now im just a newbie at this and ive heard the phrase 'highlight back to base/midtone' before but i'm not sure exactly what it means, i sorta know what highlights are (currently my experiments have gone as far as washes and drybrushing) but how do i 'Highlight back to white'? because putting more white in there sounds like a great way to make it colder but i dont want to screw this up!

The phrase refers to reclaiming shaded areas back to your basecoat colour. For example, if you basecoat Underbelly Blue, and shade it blue, there may be overshading, i.e. your Underbelly Blue has become rather too blue. So, one applies more Underbelly Blue, leaving the bluest blues in the deepest recesses, thereby reclaiming the majority of colour back to Underbelly Blue, yet still showing your blue shades in the deepest recesses.

To highlight back to white simply indicates pushing your highlights to white. This is usually done in order to create greater contrast. Returning to the previous example, now that one has basecoated Underbelly Blue, shaded blue, and then reclaimed the basecoat, one would continue to highlight with Underbelly Blue/Frostbite mix, then pure Frostbite, and then finally Frostbite/Morrow White for some very small, pinpoint highlights.

The final pic you posted is on the way to this. I would suggest that you pick out the extreme tips of the feathers on the cloak with a 'highlight back to white' as described above. The cloak may also benefit with a very dilute wash of Blue Ink/Coal Black mix, applied directly and in a very controlled manner to the recesses (at the intersections separating the cloak's feathers).

Does that all make sense?

Yes it does thankyou! finally i get what that means....i love that idea but i like the one by JohnDoe1990 above too, and in order to do what you and he suggested i think i'll need to order a couple more paints, so in the meantime i'm going to paint up a second Lanyssa like the first (though maybe try a variant pattern) and try both ways to see which i like best. Hopefully i'll be able to post both!

Have you thought of dusting the cloak with white pigments? Not only would it give a frosted look but add a little bit of texture to the frost on the cloak.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Have you thought of dusting the cloak with white pigments? Not only would it give a frosted look but add a little bit of texture to the frost on the cloak.

White pigments? would that be something like a weathering powder?

 Darianblood wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Have you thought of dusting the cloak with white pigments? Not only would it give a frosted look but add a little bit of texture to the frost on the cloak.

White pigments? would that be something like a weathering powder?

Yes but to add the texture you must use them in different manner.

Usually you put some pigments in place with a brush, use alcohol and eventually a pigment fixer or varnish.

Now you do the opposite, put the alcohol on first, powerder up the cloak with white pigments. Pigments won't dissolve as much and result in small clumps and texture.

Let dry and eventually seal everything with a matt varnish.

 Erik_Morkai wrote:

 Darianblood wrote:

 Erik_Morkai wrote:
Have you thought of dusting the cloak with white pigments? Not only would it give a frosted look but add a little bit of texture to the frost on the cloak.

White pigments? would that be something like a weathering powder?

Yes but to add the texture you must use them in different manner.

Usually you put some pigments in place with a brush, use alcohol and eventually a pigment fixer or varnish.

Now you do the opposite, put the alcohol on first, powerder up the cloak with white pigments. Pigments won't dissolve as much and result in small clumps and texture.

Let dry and eventually seal everything with a matt varnish.

Wow, i'd never have considered anything like this, i sure came to the right place to get advice

Looks like i might need a 3rd test miniature, not to mention some more supplies.....

One question, the alcohol, would that be Isopropyl (rubbing) Alcohol?

I've never tried that, but methylated spirits or other mineral spirits work just fine.

If you use pigments, be thrifty when varnishing - too much varnish will kill the pigment effect (sort of a nice, dusty-looking effect), even with fixer.

A lot of people apply pigments after varnishing, and then use a fixer, to avoid this issue. I've tried both approaches, and in the end I just gave up varnishing entirely, and used a lot of matt medium in my paints.

gohkm wrote:
I've never tried that, but methylated spirits or other mineral spirits work just fine.

If you use pigments, be thrifty when varnishing - too much varnish will kill the pigment effect (sort of a nice, dusty-looking effect), even with fixer.

A lot of people apply pigments after varnishing, and then use a fixer, to avoid this issue. I've tried both approaches, and in the end I just gave up varnishing entirely, and used a lot of matt medium in my paints.

After having inks run on me when i tried to paint on varnish, i now airbrush a thin coat of gloss onto finished miniatures and when thats fixed everything paint matt on over it, i imagine that should hold the pigment ok?

The issue is that varnish (or at least, Testors Dullcote) tends to have a blending effect. This kills the pigments' dusty effect.

If you use spirits first, then clump on the pigment, then varnish, theoretically, the effect shouldn't vanish, since the pigments are now clumped, and that should negate the blending effect of varnish somewhat.

As to your inks running after varnishing, are you letting the inks dry fully? Inks can take a long time to dry, especially if stuffed into nooks and crannies. I've never experienced this problem, though, and I use inks rather extensively.

gohkm wrote:
The issue is that varnish (or at least, Testors Dullcote) tends to have a blending effect. This kills the pigments' dusty effect.

If you use spirits first, then clump on the pigment, then varnish, theoretically, the effect shouldn't vanish, since the pigments are now clumped, and that should negate the blending effect of varnish somewhat.

As to your inks running after varnishing, are you letting the inks dry fully? Inks can take a long time to dry, especially if stuffed into nooks and crannies. I've never experienced this problem, though, and I use inks rather extensively.

Ok thanks

As for the inks, its happened when the Mini had been left for a day or two after painting, but tbh i found i prefer airbrushing the gloss on anyway, as i can get it thinner than i would if i painted it. I use Coat d'Arms gloss and matt varnish over pretty much every brand of paint and ink (CD'A, P3, Army Painter, Citadel, Vallejo)

I'll have to see if I can replicate the running ink. I can think of a few ways that it might actually be useful.

Cheers!

 JohnDoe1990 wrote:
You would be AMAZED at what the Guilliman Blue glaze from GW would do for that cloak. Before glazing it I would try mixing bright silver paint with clear blue paint and giving the cloak a dry brushing with it. You may also try a light spritzing of glue and adding some crushed glass snow effect. Try this on a different surface first to be sure you like it and don't forget to post your results!

You were sooo right about the Guilliman Blue! did the silver/blue drybrush then glazed it, sad thing is it doesnt show up so well on the pic but up close the Mini shimmers when i turn it....

Not sure about the snow effect yet....more practice minis to paint up! Also the pic doesnt really show how all the feathers still look slightly different colours...