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Pilau Rice wrote:

Shigematsu wrote:
Someone like Creed and his guard Jarren Kell have been alive for 4000 years

... Really?

4000 years old? Or did you add an extra 0 there in error?

That seems ... a bit too old

Thats odd, yes. I always thought Danta was the oldest...

Brother Coa wrote:The majority of the population is surely living like us or like average Human 200 years ago ( doing the land, maintaining his house, paying tax, etc... ). So the average lifespan is surly somewhere around 100 years.

You have disproved your own arguement, how many people live to 100 now, let alone 200 years ago. the averaged human life span now is roughly 67.2 years

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The majority of the population is surely living like us or like average Human 200 years ago ( doing the land, maintaining his house, paying tax, etc... ). So the average lifespan is surly somewhere around 100 years.

You have disproved your own arguement, how many people live to 100 now, let alone 200 years ago. the averaged human life span now is roughly 67.2 years

Well, people have lived actually more in the past than now ( much less pollution and they rarely have any of the modern sicknesses ) the only problem was that they didn't have advanced medicine like us. And 38.000 years in the future on most worlds is peace and people are working all day at their farms ( witch means that they are eating much more healthier than us, so that is a + for life span ). And if some sickness is attacking them they have modern medicines to threat themselves.
If they are living healthy and they have acess to modern drugs why won't they live 100 years? Especially if there is no war near them? And that there is no pollution like today on Earth.

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The majority of the population is surely living like us or like average Human 200 years ago ( doing the land, maintaining his house, paying tax, etc... ). So the average lifespan is surly somewhere around 100 years.

You have disproved your own arguement, how many people live to 100 now, let alone 200 years ago. the averaged human life span now is roughly 67.2 years

Well, people have lived actually more in the past than now ( much less pollution and they rarely have any of the modern sicknesses ) the only problem was that they didn't have advanced medicine like us. And 38.000 years in the future on most worlds is peace and people are working all day at their farms ( witch means that they are eating much more healthier than us, so that is a + for life span ). And if some sickness is attacking them they have modern medicines to threat themselves.
If they are living healthy and they have acess to modern drugs why won't they live 100 years? Especially if there is no war near them? And that there is no pollution like today on Earth.

I don't know where you are getting your infomation from but the average life expectancy in the past is far lower, being below 35 for most classical civilisations and even only 45 at the start of the 20th century, even the rich and powerful did not live very long (with even the most powerful figures, such as kings not even getting past 60). Also pollution doesn't actually kill that many people, and MRSA is nothing compared the the Black Death or the Spanish Flu.

If you take in the fact that the large number of fuedal worlds within the IoM have no access to the 'future awesome medicine' at all (with only a handful of people being advanced, who control the population), then there are the pre-blackpowder worlds and the large numbers of worlds that have populations that basically live to work for the Emperor (and die after their usefullnes deminishes, as the goverment have no use for pensioners). All these factors would lead to a lower end life expectancy.

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:Yes the higher ups live a good few years longer.

But your average hive scum propably lives to about 90,and that's if he isn't shot or stabbed.

And a guardman has a life span of 12 minutes,according to a novel.

90? in a hivecity? its the most hazardous place you can imagine. If the locals dont stab you your looking forward to a death by either poison from a leaking pipe or some kind of malnutrition / illness. id say 50 if your lucky, and a badass.

Common medicine has exctended our current life span by about double what it was a thousand years ago. It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to at least double our life span in ~40,000 years, making it a normal to die around 150-200 without special treatment. I'm already greatly aware of GW's lack of understanding in many different things. Also I've only read a few novels so I don't have a lot of reference to go off of other than Lexicanum. This is just speculation.

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Not really, there are approximately 32,380 Hive Worlds in the Imperium, while the Imperium consists of at least a million worlds (so thats a max of 3.238% IoM worlds).

The majority of worlds in the IoM have a level of technology slightly better than our own or below ours, with a vast number of worlds with populations at black powder level. Even in hive worlds, the vast population are poor workers, so are not likely to live over our own life expectancy.

Its all about the math, if the vast majority of humans are either slaving away in factories, working fields or fighting aliens, the life expectancy of an average human isn't going to be over 100 or even 80.

Thanks for correcting me there. But about the math, is is a big IF. Majority of Humans in the Imperium lives like us, the ordinary guys. Guard is using 0.1% population of the Imperium for war. There aren't much slaves, the most of hard criminals are either in penal legions or they are turned into servitors. The majority of the population is surely living like us or like average Human 200 years ago ( doing the land, maintaining his house, paying tax, etc... ). So the average lifespan is surly somewhere around 100 years.

It would vary too much planet-to-planet to be representative of any useful information though.

i.e. on deathworlds people live into their forties

On mining worlds slaves are regularly worked to death.

On hive/forge worlds the pollution can kill someone who isn't properly protected in moments.

Sothas wrote:I'm already greatly aware of GW's lack of understanding in many different things.

There is still such a thing as resources vs. interest. if the people in power see no reason to extend the lifespan of the masses then why would they?
in our world as well as in 40k there is still such a thing as rational thought, and there will allways be people that find life extention pointless if administered to their "farming cattle".

another point of interest is that 40k is the dark ages in the future. medicine might to some degree be as misunderstood as technology in that world. remember we used to burn witches for knowing about herbs.

Sothas wrote:Common medicine has exctended our current life span by about double what it was a thousand years ago. It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to at least double our life span in ~40,000 years, making it a normal to die around 150-200 without special treatment. I'm already greatly aware of GW's lack of understanding in many different things. Also I've only read a few novels so I don't have a lot of reference to go off of other than Lexicanum. This is just speculation.

There is a big difference between having the technology and widely distributing it, we have the medical/technological capability to cure a vast array of diseases, but all over the world thousands of people die from diarrhoea a day alone, why? Distribution.

On most human worlds the IoM/planetary governments have no need to keep the vast majority of the population alive longer than ~60 years, all they need is a constant workforce and as long as their population reproduce they don't need to keep people alive for long, so why waste resources.

im2randomghgh wrote:It would vary too much planet-to-planet to be representative of any useful information though.

i.e. on deathworlds people live into their forties

On mining worlds slaves are regularly worked to death.

On hive/forge worlds the pollution can kill someone who isn't properly protected in moments.

That was the point i was trying to make as well, that due to vast differences from world to world, the average life expectancy of a human would be very non-representative.

I wouldn't really take the populations of forge worlds into account anyway due to the fact that they are part of the empire of mars and that the population of machanicus worlds usually aren't all that human.

Is there any evidence of back-alley medical treatments? Including life extension???

xXSir MontyXx wrote:Is there any evidence of back-alley medical treatments? Including life extension???

Theres plenty in the Fluff (Ravenor especially but also Eisenhorn) about back-alley treatments, but nothing about life extension AFAIK.
There are numerous references to Hive Ganger 'muscle' (common thugs) having various vat-grown muscles/enhancements etc., so an extrapolation could be possible to say that life extension treatments are available. (its a bit of a stretch though).

some of the cheaper, and less effective, treatments are probably avaliable from back ally "doctors"

Bluntman you're acting like juvenate and medicine has to bestowed directly from the holy God Emperor himself. Commerce exists in the future. Pharmaceuticals are available to Imperials just the way Aspirin is available to Americans. The President doesn't authorize each individual person's usage of Aspirin. In fact America's a little tighter in their controls: at least they have the FDA.
However, your right in your analogy that millions of people on earth right now don't have access to even aspirin. It's the same in the Imperium and so some worlds the average lifespan is 30. It's not a grand Inquisitorial conspiracy: those worlds are just the Africa of the future.

Wasn't there somewhere in the rulebook that the avarage Imperial Citizen recieved 8 hours of free time per day? (Assuming they talk about 24 hours per day)
IIRC, it was in the Cities of death book.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Sothas wrote:Common medicine has exctended our current life span by about double what it was a thousand years ago. It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to at least double our life span in ~40,000 years, making it a normal to die around 150-200 without special treatment. I'm already greatly aware of GW's lack of understanding in many different things. Also I've only read a few novels so I don't have a lot of reference to go off of other than Lexicanum. This is just speculation.

There is a big difference between having the technology and widely distributing it, we have the medical/technological capability to cure a vast array of diseases, but all over the world thousands of people die from diarrhoea a day alone, why? Distribution.

On most human worlds the IoM/planetary governments have no need to keep the vast majority of the population alive longer than ~60 years, all they need is a constant workforce and as long as their population reproduce they don't need to keep people alive for long, so why waste resources.

im2randomghgh wrote:It would vary too much planet-to-planet to be representative of any useful information though.

i.e. on deathworlds people live into their forties

On mining worlds slaves are regularly worked to death.

On hive/forge worlds the pollution can kill someone who isn't properly protected in moments.

That was the point i was trying to make as well, that due to vast differences from world to world, the average life expectancy of a human would be very non-representative.

I wouldn't really take the populations of forge worlds into account anyway due to the fact that they are part of the empire of mars and that the population of machanicus worlds usually aren't all that human.

Well the low ranking mechanicus inductees (who form the bulk of the Mechanicus) usually only have one upgrade. You receive and upgrade every time you are "promoted".

im2randomghgh wrote:
Well the low ranking mechanicus inductees (who form the bulk of the Mechanicus) usually only have one upgrade. You receive and upgrade every time you are "promoted".

Where's that from may i ask?

Revenent Reiko wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Well the low ranking mechanicus inductees (who form the bulk of the Mechanicus) usually only have one upgrade. You receive and upgrade every time you are "promoted".

Where's that from may i ask?

In Hellforged it said that the menials (lowest non-servitor rank in the Mechanicus) have only one or sometimes two upgrades.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Revenent Reiko wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Well the low ranking mechanicus inductees (who form the bulk of the Mechanicus) usually only have one upgrade. You receive and upgrade every time you are "promoted".

Where's that from may i ask?

In Hellforged it said that the menials (lowest non-servitor rank in the Mechanicus) have only one or sometimes two upgrades.

OK (havent read that yet), but what about the upgrade per promotion bit?

Brother Coa wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:The majority of the population is surely living like us or like average Human 200 years ago ( doing the land, maintaining his house, paying tax, etc... ). So the average lifespan is surly somewhere around 100 years.

You have disproved your own arguement, how many people live to 100 now, let alone 200 years ago. the averaged human life span now is roughly 67.2 years

Well, people have lived actually more in the past than now ( much less pollution and they rarely have any of the modern sicknesses ) the only problem was that they didn't have advanced medicine like us. And 38.000 years in the future on most worlds is peace and people are working all day at their farms ( witch means that they are eating much more healthier than us, so that is a + for life span ). And if some sickness is attacking them they have modern medicines to threat themselves.
If they are living healthy and they have acess to modern drugs why won't they live 100 years? Especially if there is no war near them? And that there is no pollution like today on Earth.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
But Terra in that time is a smoggy hellhole i think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or no, that's Armageddon I'm thinking of.

Terra is a single city, that houses upwards of 32 trillion people, counter-intuitively at a lower density than modern Tokyo, when depth is taken into account.

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Terra is a single city, that houses upwards of 32 trillion people, counter-intuitively at a lower density than modern Tokyo, when depth is taken into account.

Kind of, the density of Humans on Terra isnt going to be the same over the whole world. (but that is a fun fact )

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:Terra is a single city, that houses upwards of 32 trillion people, counter-intuitively at a lower density than modern Tokyo, when depth is taken into account.

Well it is actually 100 trillions so...

Anyways, that's because the Imperial Palace covers a continent, as does the Ecclesiarchy temple thing.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Bluntman you're acting like juvenate and medicine has to bestowed directly from the holy God Emperor himself. Commerce exists in the future. Pharmaceuticals are available to Imperials just the way Aspirin is available to Americans. The President doesn't authorize each individual person's usage of Aspirin. In fact America's a little tighter in their controls: at least they have the FDA.
However, your right in your analogy that millions of people on earth right now don't have access to even aspirin. It's the same in the Imperium and so some worlds the average lifespan is 30. It's not a grand Inquisitorial conspiracy: those worlds are just the Africa of the future.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Aspirin to treatments that are equivalent to the Fountain of Youth.

Really Kamikaze, nowhere is there fluff to suggest that rejuvenant treatments are widely available to anyone that doesn't have access to large amounts of wealth or influence.

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Bluntman you're acting like juvenate and medicine has to bestowed directly from the holy God Emperor himself. Commerce exists in the future. Pharmaceuticals are available to Imperials just the way Aspirin is available to Americans. The President doesn't authorize each individual person's usage of Aspirin. In fact America's a little tighter in their controls: at least they have the FDA.
However, your right in your analogy that millions of people on earth right now don't have access to even aspirin. It's the same in the Imperium and so some worlds the average lifespan is 30. It's not a grand Inquisitorial conspiracy: those worlds are just the Africa of the future.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Aspirin to treatments that are equivalent to the Fountain of Youth.

Really Kamikaze, nowhere is there fluff to suggest that rejuvenant treatments are widely available to anyone that doesn't have access to large amounts of wealth or influence.

Also, those worlds where people live to thirty are like that because of the climat. No matter how many rejuvenant treatments you've had, a death world is a death world.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Bluntman you're acting like juvenate and medicine has to bestowed directly from the holy God Emperor himself. Commerce exists in the future. Pharmaceuticals are available to Imperials just the way Aspirin is available to Americans. The President doesn't authorize each individual person's usage of Aspirin. In fact America's a little tighter in their controls: at least they have the FDA.
However, your right in your analogy that millions of people on earth right now don't have access to even aspirin. It's the same in the Imperium and so some worlds the average lifespan is 30. It's not a grand Inquisitorial conspiracy: those worlds are just the Africa of the future.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Aspirin to treatments that are equivalent to the Fountain of Youth.

Really Kamikaze, nowhere is there fluff to suggest that rejuvenant treatments are widely available to anyone that doesn't have access to large amounts of wealth or influence.

Also, those worlds where people live to thirty are like that because of the climat. No matter how many rejuvenant treatments you've had, a death world is a death world.

I would have to agree, look at Mark Wahlberg (or however you spell his name.) he is 40 years old and looks like he is in his twenties. My father is 43 and he looks 43.

I would think rejuvination treatments are on the level of celebrities and high ranking military figures and politics, and not available for the common folk.

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Bluntman you're acting like juvenate and medicine has to bestowed directly from the holy God Emperor himself. Commerce exists in the future. Pharmaceuticals are available to Imperials just the way Aspirin is available to Americans. The President doesn't authorize each individual person's usage of Aspirin. In fact America's a little tighter in their controls: at least they have the FDA.
However, your right in your analogy that millions of people on earth right now don't have access to even aspirin. It's the same in the Imperium and so some worlds the average lifespan is 30. It's not a grand Inquisitorial conspiracy: those worlds are just the Africa of the future.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Aspirin to treatments that are equivalent to the Fountain of Youth.

Really Kamikaze, nowhere is there fluff to suggest that rejuvenant treatments are widely available to anyone that doesn't have access to large amounts of wealth or influence.

Also, those worlds where people live to thirty are like that because of the climat. No matter how many rejuvenant treatments you've had, a death world is a death world.

I would have to agree, look at Mark Wahlberg (or however you spell his name.) he is 40 years old and looks like he is in his twenties. My father is 43 and he looks 43.

I would think rejuvination treatments are on the level of celebrities and high ranking military figures and politics, and not available for the common folk.

Unless they are feth-Yeah rich

"Rich People" are still civilians. Therefore civilians have access to Juvenate treatments.

im2randomghgh wrote:

xXSir MontyXx wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Bluntman you're acting like juvenate and medicine has to bestowed directly from the holy God Emperor himself. Commerce exists in the future. Pharmaceuticals are available to Imperials just the way Aspirin is available to Americans. The President doesn't authorize each individual person's usage of Aspirin. In fact America's a little tighter in their controls: at least they have the FDA.
However, your right in your analogy that millions of people on earth right now don't have access to even aspirin. It's the same in the Imperium and so some worlds the average lifespan is 30. It's not a grand Inquisitorial conspiracy: those worlds are just the Africa of the future.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Aspirin to treatments that are equivalent to the Fountain of Youth.

Really Kamikaze, nowhere is there fluff to suggest that rejuvenant treatments are widely available to anyone that doesn't have access to large amounts of wealth or influence.

Also, those worlds where people live to thirty are like that because of the climat. No matter how many rejuvenant treatments you've had, a death world is a death world.

I would have to agree, look at Mark Wahlberg (or however you spell his name.) he is 40 years old and looks like he is in his twenties. My father is 43 and he looks 43.

I would think rejuvination treatments are on the level of celebrities and high ranking military figures and politics, and not available for the common folk.

Unless they are feth-Yeah rich

the Eisinhorn and Ravenor omnibusses have plenty of examples of cheapo medical procedures accross all layers of society.

the implications are that simple juvnat procedures/treatments are avaliable for those that can afford it.



a factory worker would certaintly be able to save up enough to go in and have something done once a year or so. its like saving up for a carm something they can't do everyday and to the highest standard, but it can be done.


if you have a steady source of income, you will be able to get life extensions.

@Grey Templar. That's my impression too. Juvenate treatments would be one of the more normal things you can get. Some people get bizarre extendo-limbs, gene-therapy that makes you a muscle bound hulk or even internal brain cybernetics that increase reaction time.

Grey Templar wrote:
the Eisinhorn and Ravenor omnibusses have plenty of examples of cheapo medical procedures accross all layers of society.

the implications are that simple juvnat procedures/treatments are avaliable for those that can afford it.



a factory worker would certaintly be able to save up enough to go in and have something done once a year or so. its like saving up for a carm something they can't do everyday and to the highest standard, but it can be done.


if you have a steady source of income, you will be able to get life extensions.

If you read the opening of Ordo Malleus, and what Eisenhorn thinks of Bequin, you'll see that he expresses surprise that she is able to afford such a strict regime of treatments, even in her position (which was considerably wealthy).

@Kamikaze: Yeah, wealthy civilians. There is nothing anywhere that suggests Mr. Average-Joe-McFactory-Worker will ever be able to afford them.