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Will they have the executor?

 Gitzbitah wrote:
"I've got a bad feeling about this"

-My wallet.


Dear Goddess, it is a horrifying thing to be a target audience. I don't think I could possibly not buy this product. X-wing was nothing more than the gateway drug. Next thing you know they'll release a mass combat ground game styled after Epic!

Can't say anything about a large scale combat game, but a little bird told me of a Skirmish game.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I also love how people will refuse to even consider a game because two of the ships are not accurately in scale with each other. Nerd much?

Not really, I'm just aware of the setting and what sort of size the models would need to be to reflect what they're attempting to portray, and they fail. Not just slightly, but to a very large degree.

If 40k used Epic-scale Rhinos to transport squads, would it not seem silly to you?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Incidentally, how has Battlefleet Gothic aged? If I were to buy up old models would the game still be great, or am I best served waiting for the new-gen options like this and the game from the DZC team?

BFG is great, you just need to use 2010 FAQ clarifications, original rules have perhaps bit too many ambiguous things to modern taste.

Some time ago, me and my bud introduced a friend to starship games. One day we asked, would you like another game of X-wing? "Umm...couldn't we just play BFG instead?" Well, we sure could.

It's a travesty they don't make the models anymore.

*jaw to the floor*

Finally!

John D Law wrote:
The box set looks awesome and the minis are gorgeous. That said if i am gonna be a technical geek about it the box contents are completely off. I mean a corvette and a medical frigate versus a star destroyer?!!!!! THis battle would be over in about ten seconds ( amount of time it would take to target the med frigate and then suck the corvette into the landing bay of the SD! Seems way off! That said again its gorgeous

As a technical geek you should know the Nebulon-B class escort frigate was a normal combat ship widely used in the GCW for escort and anti-starfighter interdiction.

However, it does beg an interesting question. X-Wing has kept the two factions distinct with no ship overlaps which has worked well enough because in the fiction the two sides didn't use each other's fighters that often (outside of the obsolete fighters/rear-lines squadrons or some sort of special operation). However, capital ships with their much higher resource costs and comparatively fewer shipyards tended to be re-used often if captured. Corellian corvettes and Nebulon-Bs were both used widely by both sides in the war, and many other ships were such old designs that they fought on both sides. If one wants to delve into the EU, the New Republic made extensive use of Star Destroyers in addition to Mon Calamari crusiers.

It makes me wonder if there will be the hard separation between Rebel and Imperial, or if certain ships will be "Common Pool" where appropriate for the GCW era.

 Krinsath wrote:

John D Law wrote:
The box set looks awesome and the minis are gorgeous. That said if i am gonna be a technical geek about it the box contents are completely off. I mean a corvette and a medical frigate versus a star destroyer?!!!!! THis battle would be over in about ten seconds ( amount of time it would take to target the med frigate and then suck the corvette into the landing bay of the SD! Seems way off! That said again its gorgeous

As a technical geek you should know the Nebulon-B class escort frigate was a normal combat ship widely used in the GCW for escort and anti-starfighter interdiction.

However, it does beg an interesting question. X-Wing has kept the two factions distinct with no ship overlaps which has worked well enough because in the fiction the two sides didn't use each other's fighters that often (outside of the obsolete fighters/rear-lines squadrons or some sort of special operation). However, capital ships with their much higher resource costs and comparatively fewer shipyards tended to be re-used often if captured. Corellian corvettes and Nebulon-Bs were both used widely by both sides in the war, and many other ships were such old designs that they fought on both sides. If one wants to delve into the EU, the New Republic made extensive use of Star Destroyers in addition to Mon Calamari crusiers.

It makes me wonder if there will be the hard separation between Rebel and Imperial, or if certain ships will be "Common Pool" where appropriate for the GCW era.

I have a sinking feeling that those will be the 'Aces' expansions of this game. Or, heavens forbid, the product of some sort of campaign system!

Per my friend, if this takes place shortly after the clone wars, then its most likely a Victory 1, not a Victory 2. The Victory is a baby battleship even baby compared to the Vic 2, so for scale wise its correct or darn close. The fighters are alittle big but I assume they represent a squad, which is 12 fighers. If they made the fighters to scale we would have BFG paper cut out,

I feel a great disturbance in the force, as if a million wallets cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

Anyways, looks like a must-have.

 Ruberu wrote:
Per my friend, if this takes place shortly after the clone wars, then its most likely a Victory 1, not a Victory 2. The Victory is a baby battleship even baby compared to the Vic 2, so for scale wise its correct or darn close. The fighters are alittle big but I assume they represent a squad, which is 12 fighers. If they made the fighters to scale we would have BFG paper cut out,

The card in the OP says Victory II class star destroyer.

... And the Victory and Victory II are the same size.

 Ruberu wrote:
Per my friend, if this takes place shortly after the clone wars, then its most likely a Victory 1, not a Victory 2. The Victory is a baby battleship even baby compared to the Vic 2, so for scale wise its correct or darn close. The fighters are alittle big but I assume they represent a squad, which is 12 fighers. If they made the fighters to scale we would have BFG paper cut out,

According to Wookieepedia both the Victory-I and Victory-II are approximately 900 meters long.

Looks pretty interesting. I look forward to seeing them detail how it works further.

I would really lose all wallet control if they dropped an epic scale planetary battles system though.

 insaniak wrote:
Having at least a semi-accurate nod to scale is a large part of setting up the illusion in a miniatures battle. It's irritating enough when, say, a transport vehicle is not quite large enough to fit the models it's supposed to transport. It's worse when you get to the size disparity between the corvette and the star destroyer here.

I fully realise it's not an issue for many people... But for me, a good miniatures game is just as much about the miniatures as it is about playing the game.

But which would you rather have: a Star Wars capital ship game with scale issues, or a Star Wars capital ship game that doesn't exist? Because those are the choices here, the size differences between the smallest ships and the largest ships are just too big to make it practical to use true-scale models. Either you have giant star destroyers that you can't really fit onto the table, or tiny corvettes that are a barely-detailed blob at the top of the base. This isn't like in 40k where the models could be scaled correctly if GW cared enough to do it.

The CR90 doesn't need to be a small blob on the end of a flight stand - just half the size that it's shown there.

Now, I'm not part of the "the A-wing is too big!" crowd, but the corvette's size really bugs me for some reason.

 Peregrine wrote:
But which would you rather have: a Star Wars capital ship game with scale issues, or a Star Wars capital ship game that doesn't exist?

I would rather wait for a game that picks a scale and sticks to it than buy a game I'm not going to be happy with.

those are the choices here, the size differences between the smallest ships and the largest ships are just too big to make it practical to use true-scale models.

Only if you include the smallest ships and/or the largest ships in the game.

A Star Wars game doesn't actually have to include every ship that has ever been shown.

Oh balls.......well at least I managed to hold of getting any xwing stuff.

This will ruin me lol

 insaniak wrote:
I would rather wait for a game that picks a scale and sticks to it than buy a game I'm not going to be happy with.

Then you're going to be waiting forever, because that game can not exist.

Only if you include the smallest ships and/or the largest ships in the game.

A Star Wars game doesn't actually have to include every ship that has ever been shown.

It doesn't have to include every ship, but even if you include just the iconic canon ones you've got too much of a size range. Assuming the upper limit on a practical ship is 6" and the biggest one is a normal 1.6km star destroyer a corvette would be about half an inch long, way too small to include any real detail or sell in a $15 expansion. And if you don't include those ships then everyone is going to be asking why you didn't, and why they have a "Star Wars" game where all the ships are random EU stuff that hardly anyone recognizes.

 Peregrine wrote:
It doesn't have to include every ship, but even if you include just the iconic canon ones you've got too much of a size range. Assuming the upper limit on a practical ship is 6" and the biggest one is a normal 1.6km star destroyer a corvette would be about half an inch long, way too small to include any real detail or sell in a $15 expansion.

At half an inch long it doesn't need a huge amount of detail, and you simply include a bunch of them in the expansion (or a bigger ship and a couple of smaller ones) instead of just a single ship.

The Corvette is tiny, so it would come in squadrons. But they want to include it as a capital ship, and they need the minis to be a reasonable size, so they're not in perfect scale. I don't think it's that big a deal.

Hmmm I'm definitely in the one scale camp...On the other hand it's Star Wars and just one starter box wouldn't hurt now would it. What could possibly go wrong.....

It's true that SW capital ships have large size range...in BFG, smallest modelled ships are destroyers, which are 1.5km long in the lore (though sources vary). Battleships are maybe 8km long, so they are bit over 5 times longer than the smallest presented craft (excluding attack craft).

By contrast in SW, a Nebulon frigate is what, 300m long, and Imperial Star destroyer is 1.6km. So those would be within same limits, but if you start add other stuff, there are bigger ships even in the movies - Calamari flagship is over 3km long, not to mention about Executor - and in EU, there are many ships intermediate that size. And of course there are also smaller ships in the opposite end of the scale.

That said, I wish they paid better attention to the scale. It annoys me how in X-Wing, scale is all over the place (Y-Wing is too small etc). Logically, it is very hard to understand what a lone corvette could do to hurt a Star Destroyer, even Victory class - it would be a smack in the windscreen, so to speak. So why even bother to model that? I'm sure there are better fits in the canon if it comes to that. Warhammer universe also has tons of ships smaller than a destroyer size, but they are simply ignored in the game, or included with the attack craft.

Pretty damn keen on this, looks and sounds great.

Backfire wrote:
not to mention about Executor -

I'd put money on the Executor being an 'X Wing Corvette' style big box release a year or two down the line.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
I would rather wait for a game that picks a scale and sticks to it than buy a game I'm not going to be happy with.

Then you're going to be waiting forever, because that game can not exist.

You're not wrong. But this game doesn't seem to be an acceptable substitute for some. Sadly.

As much as I'd love 'perfect' scale, I'd accept a small degree of fudging, same as X wing. This is far, far too out of scale to make sense to me.

Take my wallet, hell, take a kidney, I want that stuff bad.

Daston wrote:
Oh balls.......well at least I managed to hold off getting any xwing stuff.

This will ruin me lol

My thoughts exactly . Glad I waited! Capital ship combat with small squadrons of fighters is where it's at

Very, very interested in this! Not too fussed about exact scale if they keep things reasonable. The new bigger ships for X-wing are too large to game with, imo- a compromise is okay with me.

Yep I was getting *this* close to picking up X-Wing. I still probably will as I imagine these will play somewhat differently, but the idea of capital ships and fighter squadrons really tickles my fancy!

Yeah that would be main concern, a simple derivation of the X-Wing mechanics would be of little interest to me.

Just looking at the movement stick, I think this is a completely different beast. Plus, three types of coloured dice!

Almost bought X-wing, now i can buy this!