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Eadartri wrote:

I think I saw something like that minus two legs and the laser. Adepticon team tournament winners Team U.S.Eh?

I wouldn't know. Pics would be appreciated though.

Quickjager wrote:

Holy gak Rough Riders can be good now! Ogryns as Wraithguard are going to be making a huge comeback! Packed inside their Chimeras (Fire Prism)!

I never thought about Ogryn as wraithguard! Vaul batteries make for good arty rules.

 Talys wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
How are 80% of the Eldar models "out of date"?

The overwhelmingly vast majority of models are only like 8 years old (not much older than most staple Imperial kits and *way* newer than most IG infantry) and many are only a couple of years old. Meanwhile, their only remaining truly "old" units were Jetbikes and the tanks, the Jetbikes are now new and the tanks still look fine.

The only issue Eldar have is just lots of Aspect Warriors still being Finecast. Their overall range isn't particularly old.

Just compare the Eldar models to Dark Eldar. But let's do it --

- Guardians and Vaul are junk; the level of detail with them compared to any modern kit is awful.

The Guardians themselves aren't any older (or at least not much older) than the basic sculpts for marines, or Fire Warriors, or any of the IG infantry except the command sets and Scions & Ogryn, or basic Ork Boyz, and they certainly aren't any worse than any of those sets.

The big Vaul weapons aren't even 5 years old yet, those are rather new.

- Every HQ is either Metal or Finecast, except except the new Autarch and 1 Farseer model

Plastic HQ's are a relatively recent thing, within the last 5 years. Given that a lot of the plastic models are absurdly expensive and aren't really any better than the finecast/metal ones, I'm not seeing a huge downside there. A lot of factions don't have plastic HQ's, especially not for their complete HQ assortment. Eldar aren't really unique in that regard.

- Finecast: Fire Dragons, Howling Banshees, Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks, every Farseer but one, Warlocks, Rangers. These are monopose models to boot.

Yes, they're Finecast and monopose, I'll grant that, but most of them aren't spectacularly old however, only a year or two older than many SM equivalents like any of the three SM Veterans sets, Legion of the Damned, and the like. Or Chaos Marines where many of the Cult troops remain Metal/Resin or Plastic/Metal hybrids that date back to 2001/2002. Many factions have lots of monopose metal/finecast Elites units.

Again, nothing unique to Eldar there, though yes, getting Aspect Warriors in plastic would have been great.

Speaking of which, GW's had the new Jetbike models sitting around since 2007, strange that it took them so long to release them.

- Vypers compared to Harlequin and Dark Eldar versions look dinky

The crew look a bit weird, the vehicles themselves look allright, I don't have any on hand right now but IIRC they aren't much different dimensionally or in terms of detail. I could be wrong on that one though I'll admit.

- They have essentially 1 tank; Fire Prism, Night Spinners and Falcons are the same model. Wave Serpents are almost the same chassis.

Same with IG, DE, Tau and SM's. They've got like 1 or 2 chassis that serve as the basis for everything, and the Fire Prism/Night Spinner kit isn't even 5 years old yet, the Wave Serpent only a bit older. The Falcon is relatively old but you couldn't tell that looking at the other variants.

- War Walkers are ok-ish, but nothing exciting

But not out-dated. They may not be the most great looking models to you, but they're relatively new next to many equivalents. Certainly newer than the designs for many equivalents like Sentinels, Pirhanas, Land Speeders, etc (a couple of those have gotten some re-cuts, largely to consolidate kits or fix assembly issues, but the designs haven't changed in over a decade)

To given an example of moderness of plastic, Assault Marines are old crap. Death Company are sweet new plastic. Of all the factions, Eldar have the least sweet new plastic

They don't have sweet new plastic like some of the Space Marine stuff. They're not however by any means anywhere near last place in this regard, nor is their range as a whole spectacularly old.

Just compare proportions to: Necron, Tyranid, Harlequins, Dark Eldar, Tau, Orks, Guard, CSM and of course, the gold standard, Space Marines. Out of all the playable factions, only Chaos Demons and Sisters have a higher percentage of dated models (nobody can beat them, since it's 100%).

DE got a complete revamp and ditched everything from before 2010 after going a decade without any attention. Most of the IG infantry are 13-14 years old except the command squads and a couple Elites units. Most IG vehicles are extremely slight redesigns of 20 year old models, most people can't tell a new-kit Basilisk from a 2E Basilisk for instance. Orks have only very recently gotten a bunch of new plastic to replace a slew of 20 year old plastics, and many of those new kits are absurdly highly priced. Tau Crisis Suits, Fire Warriors and Vehicles are all older than most of the current Eldar line, with only Broadsides and RIptides and a couple HQ models being newer IIRC.

Yeah, Harlequins are new and in all plastic greatness, but they're also Eldar . Tyranids are in a pretty good spot, but also a very recent development. Necrons are probably the best in terms of what you're going for, having plastic that's less than 4 years old for everything I think at this point except C'tan.

But ultimately, Eldar's model range isn't that spectacularly outdated when we look at these things. They're pretty middle of the road. I'd certainly say they have more "sweet plastic" than something like IG, who really only have Scions and Valkyries (maybe Tauroxes if that's you're thing? Not mine) as "sweet plastic".

 Quickjager wrote:
Just let people proxy their stuff as Eldar units at this point. It will be more fun. Ork nobs as aspect warriors, Kommandos as scorpions, Superoverpriced Gorkanaughts as WraithKnights.

EDIT: Yes actually thank you FBP for having a soul, do you need a soulstone for it? I hear Slaneesh is fickle. Wait what does Ancient Doom do now?

I was thinking about this earlier. Are wraithguard on terminator bases? I could actually dust off my terminators!

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Just let people proxy their stuff as Eldar units at this point. It will be more fun. Ork nobs as aspect warriors, Kommandos as scorpions, Superoverpriced Gorkanaughts as WraithKnights.

EDIT: Yes actually thank you FBP for having a soul, do you need a soulstone for it? I hear Slaneesh is fickle. Wait what does Ancient Doom do now?

I was thinking about this earlier. Are wraithguard on terminator bases? I could actually dust off my terminators!

I think they are TERMINATORS ARE BACK BABY! Assault marines finally can attack fliers as well!

niv-mizzet wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
You know, it's stuff like this that stops me from actually wanting to play Eldar. I really want to make an Aspects of khaine, I love the idea of the Aspect Warriors and I like some of the modls. But stuff like Serpents, and now these jetbikes and wraith stuff, I have a feeling if I ever show up to a club with Eldar, people won't want to play with me because of this stuff.

Your conscience seems to be fully functional. We thank you for having a soul.

That's a bit excessive. He's talking about not running a list with Aspect Warriors who received some minor sorely needed buffs. But since its Eldar, he's concerned that people would be all PITCHFORK! (Which is now my name for anyone refusing to play against anything in any game). I admit that I was swept up in the bandwagon, but ultimately, you have to trust the guys you play with in the flgs or club to keep it light. At my FLGS everyone is pretty cool about stuff provided it is approached in a mature and adult manner.

I enjoy this game and would prefer if others found a way to enjoy it themselves or find a different game rather than act in ways to destroy the company.

@Vaktathi - I don't have time to reply to your response point by point, and I'm on a tablet watching TV, so I'll just ooint out a couple of things.

If you compare equivalent models between Dark Eldar and Eldar, the DE models are simply more sophisticated. Kabalites vs. Guardians. Wyches vs. DA. Scourges vs Swooping Hawks. Et cetera. I doubt you want to defend Finecast as being as good as HIPS.

How is it that you figure that IG and space marines have one tank chassis (each)? IG have lrmbt, wyvern, taurox, and baneblade off the top of my head. SM have at least land raider and rhino chassis, plus drop pods.

The eldar have one kit for tank and one for DT; you can practically build all the variants with it, and two of the variants are almost identical.

You pretty much make my point for me when you talk about when DE, Orks, etc. got new models. Heck, BA, a minor faction, got tacticals.

Anyhow, as someone who loves modeling GW stuff, I can only say that a lot of Eldar models feel very dated.

Oh and Harlequins can't be taken as a part of the new Eldar (any more than De).

Im pretty glad we don't have any elder players in my community. I think most people in my area don't like playing them either

Raven Cowl wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
You know, it's stuff like this that stops me from actually wanting to play Eldar. I really want to make an Aspects of khaine, I love the idea of the Aspect Warriors and I like some of the modls. But stuff like Serpents, and now these jetbikes and wraith stuff, I have a feeling if I ever show up to a club with Eldar, people won't want to play with me because of this stuff.

Your conscience seems to be fully functional. We thank you for having a soul.

That's a bit excessive. He's talking about not running a list with Aspect Warriors who received some minor sorely needed buffs. But since its Eldar, he's concerned that people would be all PITCHFORK! (Which is now my name for anyone refusing to play against anything in any game). I admit that I was swept up in the bandwagon, but ultimately, you have to trust the guys you play with in the flgs or club to keep it light. At my FLGS everyone is pretty cool about stuff provided it is approached in a mature and adult manner.

You call it pitchforking like its a derogatory term, but seriously, if you played a game that took about 3 hours, and there was some faction/unit type that literally made the game not only unwinnable* but completely not fun for you, would you want to keep spending 3 hour chunks playing them, or just play someone else... Or go do laundry or something else productive?

Really I'm hearing "if you're not having fun watching your army get slaughtered by this awesome one with no real opportunity to do anything back, you must be a jerk!" from people on here.

*unwinnable is a slight exaggeration. Gretchin can kill terminators, krak grenades can kill flyers, and a lone ork boy can sweeping advance a 20 man dark eldar warrior unit. That doesn't make it bloody likely!

I support this ban. Henceforth, i shall not play any games against eldar, period. Neither will i play them.

Yea, I'm sure you'll get the large tournament organizers to do that just because you don't like playing against that codex.

The codex really needs to be pulped and replaced with a nerfed, not buffed, codex.

This would cost Games Workshop many thousands of dollars. The only way this kind of chump change is going to be spent is if it comes directly from the shareholders. This is the only course of action we have, IMHO, that will be effective.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Don't like my Eldar? Stay off my tables then. If this is your stance on Eldar than I do not want to play against you using my Astral Claws, Tyranids or even my stupidly weak Chaos list. If you want to take steps to invalidate the army that I spent a few hundred dollars on because of a rule set that is 1) out of my control and 2) not the end of the world, then your group, area and whatever else you get to side with you is not a part of the hobby that I want to be a part of. Reimburse the time and money I put into the army or you can kindly stuff it. You damage the hobby more with this sort of thinking than anything else.

If your response to "No thanks, I wouldn't have fun against that list" is "Fine, I won't play you with any list!", you might be unreasonable.

niv-mizzet wrote:

Raven Cowl wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 FakeBritishPerson wrote:
You know, it's stuff like this that stops me from actually wanting to play Eldar. I really want to make an Aspects of khaine, I love the idea of the Aspect Warriors and I like some of the modls. But stuff like Serpents, and now these jetbikes and wraith stuff, I have a feeling if I ever show up to a club with Eldar, people won't want to play with me because of this stuff.

Your conscience seems to be fully functional. We thank you for having a soul.

Spoiler:

That's a bit excessive. He's talking about not running a list with Aspect Warriors who received some minor sorely needed buffs. But since its Eldar, he's concerned that people would be all PITCHFORK! (Which is now my name for anyone refusing to play against anything in any game). I admit that I was swept up in the bandwagon, but ultimately, you have to trust the guys you play with in the flgs or club to keep it light. At my FLGS everyone is pretty cool about stuff provided it is approached in a mature and adult manner.

 Talys wrote:
@Vaktathi - I don't have time to reply to your response point by point, and I'm on a tablet watching TV, so I'll just ooint out a couple of things.

If you compare equivalent models between Dark Eldar and Eldar, the DE models are simply more sophisticated. Kabalites vs. Guardians. Wyches vs. DA. Scourges vs Swooping Hawks. Et cetera. I doubt you want to defend Finecast as being as good as HIPS

The material is not as good no, Finecast resin is terrible, but if we look at the actual models themselves (or metal versions), the models aren't all that bad.

That said, I don't think a lot of these comparisons are great. Why are we comparing Wyches and Dire Avengers? Wyches are a close combat unit, with a background heavily involving appearance and showmanship, with armored, clothed, and bare flesh segments that are simply more inherently complex, relative to Dire Avengers which are a fully armored strictly combat unit. The DA sculpts are also only like 3 years older than the Wyches, and I don't see anything wrong with them in terms of detail.

Likewise, Kabalite Warriors vs Guardians, the Guardians are more plain, with less segmented armor and no spiky bits/blades, but I don't think that makes them worse sculpts or less detailed, they're just inherently less flashy units, as to be expected from the disciplined and studious Eldar as oppose to their wild and individualistic Dark Eldar kin.

The Swooping Hawks are a fair point, I forgot about them, they are a bit older. The other Aspects IIRC however were all redone in 2006/7, making them about a year older than stuff like SM Sternguard/Vanguard vets and Legion of the Damned IIRC.

How is it that you figure that IG and space marines have one tank chassis (each)? IG have lrmbt, wyvern, taurox, and baneblade off the top of my head. SM have at least land raider and rhino chassis, plus drop pods.

I didn't think we were counting Superheavies, so didn't bother with the Baneblade (which also isn't included in the IG codex, only the Escalation book).

That said, almost everything is built on either the Chimera or LRBT chassis, mosly the Chimera chassis. I guess you can include the Taurox but I can't stand the thing, I don't think I've seen anyone buy one and only saw a couple of them in the immediate aftermath of the codex release and then never saw them again, and largely consider it an unwanted superfluous outlier.

Really they've got the Chimera Chassis and Leman Russ chassis. IG are also really marketed as the "Tank" army.

I don't think its really fair to include the Drop Pod in there with the SM as that's a relatively unique vehicle. Aside from that, they've got two chassis.

The eldar have one kit for tank and one for DT; you can practically build all the variants with it, and two of the variants are almost identical.

Sure they're all built on the same hull, but is there really a problem here, or are just looking "they don't have 2-3 different hulls" as being innately unequal?

I mean, Tau have one hull for everything too except Pirhanas. SM's have one hull for everything except their "just-shy-of-superheavy" Land Raider (which is just a class of unit Eldar don't have, much like SM's don't have Jetbikes). SM MBT's, Artillery, and DT's all use the same hull chassis *just* like Eldar.

You pretty much make my point for me when you talk about when DE, Orks, etc. got new models. Heck, BA, a minor faction, got tacticals.

Orks had an even older model range than Eldar, and have now ended up being *way* more expensive to play with their updated models than they used to be. DE were practically an extinct army for years and effectively re-released as a whole new army.

Eldar have gotten a good clutch of releases with every codex. Aside from Aspect Warriors and some HQ's, are now all plastic, and even those finecast/metal models aren't significantly older than many of their equivalents in other armies. They're not the newest and plasticiest, but they're not lagging spectacularly far behind either. Certainly nothing like the 80% number quoted earlier.

Anyhow, as someone who loves modeling GW stuff, I can only say that a lot of Eldar models feel very dated.

All I can say is that they're really not that dated however given the pace of releases relative to many other armies. They're not all super-duper new plastics, but neither is IG, SM's, Tau, etc. Eldar aren't spectacularly far behind these armies.

Oh and Harlequins can't be taken as a part of the new Eldar (any more than De).

Are they not in the book at all? I guess that might make a sort of sense, though with the way BB's and detachments work it's probably not much more than semantics I guess the way this game is heading.

I just can't understand why as a community we can just send a message that enough is enough. Easy enough just don't buy the new book or new models.

Take one for team Eldar guys. Play the 6th ed book. People at this point people will gladly let you play it. Its not like you lose anything this way. No money lost (but saved) or time lost.

The message gets sent. The community rejoices and Eldar players are hailed as the heroes that saved 40k.

Or you know we could argue. Let the game continue to just get worse and worse. Let the community shrink ever more as people bail before its too late to get some money back. And when it finally fails completely you guys can be secure in your awesome skillz, ability to "adapt" and spend money compulsively better then any one else.

I remember being bombed completely off the table in 4th and 5th by IG artillery lines. Deploy , deploy shovel, go home turn 1.

I remember not even being allowed to get that far by GK quakes hunt preventing me from even deploying,

I remember all sorts of broken codex stuff from all 7 editions of 40k I have played. Virus outbreak ring a bell, if you weren't playing Marines...? Asscan/cyclone SW.. Cron Air, assassins popping up in your own units with vortex grenades?
Etc etc...

This isn't the worst power imbalance 40k has ever seen. It won't be the last either.

I will play Eldar players just as I played against all those other dirty-broken lists from other codexes.

Odds are I'll have fun sometimes too, despite the power disparity,

 Ascalam wrote:
I remember being bombed completely off the table in 4th and 5th by IG artillery lines. Deploy , deploy shovel, go home turn 1.

This really only worked when the IG army went first, terrain was light, and the opponent deployed really stupidly (this was also the edition you could *very* effectively play reserve-denial games, that's how I played my Eldar then), and even then wouldn't blast you off the board in anything like one turn, and they certainly weren't throwing the quantity of firepower around that's commonplace now. That also only worked in 5E, IG in 4E were a horrendous joke of an uncompetitive army.

An Eldar player said he was glad my GK don't have psybolt ammo anymore because they do silly things; and I just looked at him as he put 4 serpents down...

 aronthomas17 wrote:
An Eldar player said he was glad my GK don't have psybolt ammo anymore because they do silly things; and I just looked at him as he put 4 serpents down...

Have you considered the Sicaran or Icarus Array Onager Dune Crawler (both of which ignore Jink) ?

Hydras used to ignore JInk...

I miss having functional Hydras

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
I remember being bombed completely off the table in 4th and 5th by IG artillery lines. Deploy , deploy shovel, go home turn 1.

This really only worked when the IG army went first, terrain was light, and the opponent deployed really stupidly (this was also the edition you could *very* effectively play reserve-denial games, that's how I played my Eldar then), and even then wouldn't blast you off the board in anything like one turn, and they certainly weren't throwing the quantity of firepower around that's commonplace now. That also only worked in 5E, IG in 4E were a horrendous joke of an uncompetitive army.

If you played orks, DE or Nids (swarm armies, or fragile vehicle armadas) and lost first go, you would be wiped off the map before even moving, unless you were playing a very heavy terrain table, as you have no option but to clump up. Swarm armies pretty much fill their deployment zone at the start of the game, and the same goes for raider fleets or trukk convoys.

And oddly enough the Sm and IG players would get all hot under the collar at the idea of giving you something to hide behind a lot of games at my flgs occurred on the war torn planet Billiard Ball

Meh still not as bad as Grey Knights and Necrons, and while I HATE their OPness I'll still play against them.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I just can't understand why as a community we can just send a message that enough is enough. Easy enough just don't buy the new book or new models.

Take one for team Eldar guys. Play the 6th ed book. People at this point people will gladly let you play it. Its not like you lose anything this way. No money lost (but saved) or time lost.

The message gets sent. The community rejoices and Eldar players are hailed as the heroes that saved 40k.

Or you know we could argue. Let the game continue to just get worse and worse. Let the community shrink ever more as people bail before its too late to get some money back. And when it finally fails completely you guys can be secure in your awesome skillz, ability to "adapt" and spend money compulsively better then any one else.

1. 95% of my games are leagues and tournaments where that won't be allowed
2. I happen to like the new book
3. It isn't my job to fix the game. I'll send you my direct deposit info, feel free to give me the yearly salary of the rules writers and then I'll consider it my job

You sound like someone who thinks voting means you have a say in how the country is run, or gun free zone signs actually mean someone willing to commit armed robbery and murder will stop in their tracks over a sign.

 Ascalam wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
I remember being bombed completely off the table in 4th and 5th by IG artillery lines. Deploy , deploy shovel, go home turn 1.

This really only worked when the IG army went first, terrain was light, and the opponent deployed really stupidly (this was also the edition you could *very* effectively play reserve-denial games, that's how I played my Eldar then), and even then wouldn't blast you off the board in anything like one turn, and they certainly weren't throwing the quantity of firepower around that's commonplace now. That also only worked in 5E, IG in 4E were a horrendous joke of an uncompetitive army.

If you played orks, DE or Nids (swarm armies, or fragile vehicle armadas) and lost first go, you would be wiped off the map before even moving, unless you were playing a very heavy terrain table, as you have no option but to clump up. Swarm armies pretty much fill their deployment zone at the start of the game, and the same goes for raider fleets or trukk convoys.

And oddly enough the Sm and IG players would get all hot under the collar at the idea of giving you something to hide behind a lot of games at my flgs occurred on the war torn planet Billiard Ball

I actually found my most effective IG armies in 5E weren't the ones with tons of blast templates, it was those with just lots of shots. I think by the end of 5E, I don't think I was running any real blast templates in my tournament army, rather 17 hulls with just lots of guns as opposed to blasts.

Either way, they were rather situational and hugely first turn dependent. When the stars aligned, they could be absolutely brutal, true, but they wouldn't routinely clear tables against most armies.

As for terrain, I can't comment on other player

 Vaktathi wrote:
Sure they're all built on the same hull, but is there really a problem here, or are just looking "they don't have 2-3 different hulls" as being innately unequal?

No, that's not what I mean. Fire prism and Night Spinner are literally the same kit. Like, one box, 2 builds. Night Spinner and Falcon are so similar as to be virtually identical -- only the turret is a tiny bit different. Tell me it ain't so.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eldar-Night-Spinner
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eldar-Falcon

The Wave Serpent is at least a *little* different.

 Vaktathi wrote:

I mean, Tau have one hull for everything too except Pirhanas. SM's have one hull for everything except their "just-shy-of-superheavy" Land Raider (which is just a class of unit Eldar don't have, much like SM's don't have Jetbikes). SM MBT's, Artillery, and DT's all use the same hull chassis *just* like Eldar.

Yes SM don't have Eldar Jetbikes... but they do have bikes (various) and land speeders (2)...

With SM, there are many distinctive looking models you can build. For instance, a predator, vindicator, rhino, and whirlwind all look distinctive (and have their various roles), even though they're based on one chassis. A whirlwind and vindicator look MUCH different from each other than a Night Spinner and Falcon. In the same way that a Fire Prism at least looks a little different from a Wave Serpent. I hope you see what I mean. And yeah, Drop Pods are not tanks. But uh.. I guess they are like wrecked tanks more than anything else

All I'm saying is: I wish GW would make more distinctive tanks for one of the main factions. Just one would make me happy!

 Vaktathi wrote:

Eldar have gotten a good clutch of releases with every codex. Aside from Aspect Warriors and some HQ's, are now all plastic, and even those finecast/metal models aren't significantly older than many of their equivalents in other armies. They're not the newest and plasticiest, but they're not lagging spectacularly far behind either. Certainly nothing like the 80% number quoted earlier.

but.. but... but... Aspect Warriors are like... the core of the Eldar fluff, lol. I stand by my 80% number, because every time I go to my FLGS and look at the Eldar section of the shelf, I'm depressed by anything that isn't a jet or has the name "Wraith" in it.

Let's put it another way:
- How many infantry kits do the Eldar have that are multipart plastic? Versus other top factions?
- How many vehicle kits do the Eldar have? Versus other top factions?

 Vaktathi wrote:

Are they not in the book at all? I guess that might make a sort of sense, though with the way BB's and detachments work it's probably not much more than semantics I guess the way this game is heading.

Well, I don't have the book yet, but I presume this is the case as they aren't in the war host chart as an option in the white dwarf, and there's no mention of them anywhere in the leaks. I mean, they're as much a part of Eldar as Grey Knights are to (vanilla) Space Marines. There doesn't seem to be a way to deploy them without using rules from their own codex.

If they were in the main book, nobody would ever buy the Harlequin codex

Anyhow, all I'm doing is saying Eldar need a big refresh, the way DE and other factions have gotten. New Guardians, Aspect Warriors, Swooping Hawks and I would be satisfied. Add a new Vyper, and 1 more distinctive tank, and I'd be thrilled. When a large part of the collection is metal, snapfit, or finecast... it's dated. Eldar were my second faction ever, and I would love to go back to collecting it.

My worst matches were against a mix of blasts and tons of las guns. I still enjoyed some of them, but playing 3rd ed DE and 4th ed orks against that was basically suicidal...

A couple of codexes down the line they'll probably give SM players Reaver Titans as troops at 15 pts each, and we will be hearing about how balanced and mild they are

If I wasn't into playing masochistically I wouldn't be playing DE in any case

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Don't like my Eldar? Stay off my tables then. If this is your stance on Eldar than I do not want to play against you using my Astral Claws, Tyranids or even my stupidly weak Chaos list. If you want to take steps to invalidate the army that I spent a few hundred dollars on because of a rule set that is 1) out of my control and 2) not the end of the world, then your group, area and whatever else you get to side with you is not a part of the hobby that I want to be a part of. Reimburse the time and money I put into the army or you can kindly stuff it. You damage the hobby more with this sort of thinking than anything else.

See fellow forumites? It's working. It starts with one. Then we get two, and the numbers don't let up. I think people are just too lazy and don't stick to their guns. Even if I had a friend who played Eldar I would no longer play him. That's just the kind of person I am though. All you need to do is just get them angry. When no one ever wants to play with them they'll get the picture to finally bring sanity to the Eldar codex.

This is for the good of all the Warhammer 40k community, Eldar players, and GW.

 Ascalam wrote:
My worst matches were against a mix of blasts and tons of las guns. I still enjoyed some of them, but playing 3rd ed DE and 4th ed orks against that was basically suicidal...

To be fair, DE always seem to do poorly against IG. I almost never beat them with my CSM's, but I don't think I've ever had a game with IG, even the crappy 3.5E codex, against DE that wasn't painfully one sided against the DE.

A couple of codexes down the line they'll probably give SM players Reaver Titans as troops at 15 pts each, and we will be hearing about how balanced and mild they are

please don't say that, they might actually do it

Gamgee wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Don't like my Eldar? Stay off my tables then. If this is your stance on Eldar than I do not want to play against you using my Astral Claws, Tyranids or even my stupidly weak Chaos list. If you want to take steps to invalidate the army that I spent a few hundred dollars on because of a rule set that is 1) out of my control and 2) not the end of the world, then your group, area and whatever else you get to side with you is not a part of the hobby that I want to be a part of. Reimburse the time and money I put into the army or you can kindly stuff it. You damage the hobby more with this sort of thinking than anything else.

See fellow forumites? It's working. It starts with one. Then we get two, and the numbers don't let up. I think people are just too lazy and don't stick to their guns. Even if I had a friend who played Eldar I would no longer play him. That's just the kind of person I am though. All you need to do is just get them angry. When no one ever wants to play with them they'll get the picture to finally bring sanity to the Eldar codex.

This is for the good of all the Warhammer 40k community, Eldar players, and GW.

Well I wouldn't necessarily refuse to play someone with Eldar immediately.

That being said if I know they're trying to cheese it then our games would have to conclude till an agreement can be reached between both parties.