Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sheit27 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Sheit27 wrote:
How about something simple like 6-9 Skyrays with 6-9 Tetras with first turn. You lose every single jetbike + more and still have missiles for the hemlocks.

Why would I deploy the bikes if I new that was the list.? I would deploy the D-cannons behind LOS blocking terrain and the assassin somewhere you can't see him. Then when I come on in turn 2 I lay waste to that whole army. Deployment is pretty much the key to any good strategy. And what if I go first.? You can say goodbye to all those units lol maybe not all the skyrays but those tetras are dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to meantion, no one would ever bring that list to a event lol you have to understand people make army's to deal with multiple army's not just one type.

you wont really get out of LOS, tetras would deploy on edge, then get a 12 inch scout move, and then 12 inch movement. they will all markerlight you up and then seeker missiles won't require LOS. so if all you put on is 2-3 units you will be tabled. And I've seen some realistic 6 skyray lists but I doubt anyone would run them.

Not only that but how would you know the list beforehand to be able to counter it so? This is hypothetical. This army is far far...FAR from unbeatable. You're not the first to thi nk of it and won't be the last. It does to.. multiple things..

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

Sheit27 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Sheit27 wrote:
How about something simple like 6-9 Skyrays with 6-9 Tetras with first turn. You lose every single jetbike + more and still have missiles for the hemlocks.

Why would I deploy the bikes if I new that was the list.? I would deploy the D-cannons behind LOS blocking terrain and the assassin somewhere you can't see him. Then when I come on in turn 2 I lay waste to that whole army. Deployment is pretty much the key to any good strategy. And what if I go first.? You can say goodbye to all those units lol maybe not all the skyrays but those tetras are dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to meantion, no one would ever bring that list to a event lol you have to understand people make army's to deal with multiple army's not just one type.

you wont really get out of LOS, tetras would deploy on edge, then get a 12 inch scout move, and then 12 inch movement. they will all markerlight you up and then seeker missiles won't require LOS. so if all you put on is 2-3 units you will be tabled. And I've seen some realistic 6 skyray lists but I doubt anyone would run them.

Not only that but how would you know the list beforehand to be able to counter it so? This is hypothetical. This army is far far...FAR from unbeatable. You're not the first to thi nk of it and won't be the last. It does to.. multiple things..

The point of this thread was to see what hard counters people could come up with to beat this list, and to be fair some people have come up with some decent lists, but with that said this is a army I've been bringing to events. And at events you don't see these hard counters because while they might beat me, they will lose to something else, that's why I feel like this list is very hard to beat because at a event you wo t have the chance to utter your list to counter mine.

no one is claiming your list isn't good or that it isn't a great tournament list. It in fact is, but your title just says "name a list that will hardcounter me" so that's all we're giving you. you didn't ask for a viable tournament list that will hard counter you.

When and where is the next event you are going to... I would love to come play, because if you are winning the events with that then I imagine that my bike army would do very well...

Thyhadras wrote:
When and where is the next event you are going to... I would love to come play, because if you are winning the events with that then I imagine that my bike army would do very well...

Next event is warmasters in Canada and then it's Daboyz in November

pinecone77 wrote:
Not bad, but for maximum OP ness you should find a way to fit in a Wraithknight or two...

Other then wraithknights being terrible because 1 hemlock can kill it on average in a turn.

We live in Canada mate!

 Cieged wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
[ And I have created the best list, but I'm sure someone in this world has made one two, can't read minds lol but I do no that here in North America I'm the first to build paint and bring this to a GT.

Neat! Which well known GT did you win with this?

Right. Ask jy2 or Smitty.
Eldar is a bit over the top since the next to the last codex came out.
After two tourneys I shelved my Eldar and since then I play Necrons.
You have come a bit too late to tell Dakka that you broke Eldar.

You must not have seen the Eldar list from one of the guys from nWo that went 5-0 at BAO. Very, very similar list. It's Eldar.

 Julnlecs wrote:
You must not have seen the Eldar list from one of the guys from nWo that went 5-0 at BAO. Very, very similar list. It's Eldar

well I've had this army since before BAO so who knows they might have seen me post up my lists from before but anyone with the right mind could come up with this list just by opening the book, I just came back from a event and went 6-0 all opponents tabled. Eldar is just amazing and I don't even have to take wraithnights (which are crap)

You're funny if you think they are crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to LVO. I'll play you there.

 Julnlecs wrote:
You're funny if you think they are crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to LVO. I'll play you there.

One hemlock will take out a wraithnight a turn lol what's a wraithnight going to do against bikes.? Kill maybe 2 a turn lol sure there great against tanks, until a grav unit shoots you and there goes 295pts down the crapper, for those 295pts I rather take 5 D-cannon platforms

Dman137 wrote:

 Julnlecs wrote:
You're funny if you think they are crap.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Come to LVO. I'll play you there.

One hemlock will take out a wraithnight a turn lol what's a wraithnight going to do against bikes.? Kill maybe 2 a turn lol sure there great against tanks, until a grav unit shoots you and there goes 295pts down the crapper, for those 295pts I rather take 5 D-cannon platforms

No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

I think he does believe that, yes.

And I wonder why Eldar players get a bad rap...

One Hemlock will never take out a Wraithknight by itself in a single turn.

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

I think he does believe that, yes.

And I wonder why Eldar players get a bad rap...

Eldar players get a bad rep because everyone complains to much about the dex. Every event I go to everyone always cries about how op eldar is and that it shouldn't be allowed, it should be nerfed, it needs to be comped blah blah blah everyone just just needs to chill and just learn how to beat it. Yes eldar is strong, but so is SM, tau, necrons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
One Hemlock will never take out a Wraithknight by itself in a single turn.

Let's see, I hit you with 2 templates that both do D3 wounds so I can do 6 wounds in 1 go. That's a dead knight.

Dman137 wrote:

 Lord Corellia wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
No one "saw your list and took it to win a huge tourney" this list has been known since the new Dex. You think you're the only eldar player hashing out overly op lists?

I think he does believe that, yes.

And I wonder why Eldar players get a bad rap...

Eldar players get a bad rep because everyone complains to much about the dex. Every event I go to everyone always cries about how op eldar is and that it shouldn't be allowed, it should be nerfed, it needs to be comped blah blah blah everyone just just needs to chill and just learn how to beat it. Yes eldar is strong, but so is SM, tau, necrons


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frozocrone wrote:
One Hemlock will never take out a Wraithknight by itself in a single turn.

Let's see, I hit you with 2 templates that both do D3 wounds so I can do 6 wounds in 1 go. That's a dead knight.

You're assuming you're going to roll 3 damage every time.

That's assuming you don't scatter off, roll a 3 for Destroyer and then rolling a 3 for D3.

Statisically that's only ~43%, so the odd's aren't in your favour. Then you take into account that a competant player has a Wraithknight's toe in ruins and that's only ~21%.

So I was wrong (after realizing it has two D-Scythes and not one), yes, you can kill a Wraithknight a turn, but it's unlikely.

 Frozocrone wrote:
That's assuming you don't scatter off, roll a 3 for Destroyer and then rolling a 3 for D3.

Statisically that's only ~43%, so the odd's aren't in your favour. Then you take into account that a competant player has a Wraithknight's toe in ruins and that's only ~21%.

So I was wrong (after realizing it has two D-Scythes and not one), yes, you can kill a Wraithknight a turn, but it's unlikely.

I no it's unlikely, but it could happen. But I still think 295pts is better spent on other units in the book, like 3 units of 5 spiders would be amazing

He's also forgetting most players run the Shield and Sword Wraithknight. In which case it would get a 5++. Then most players will Fortune or Invis the wraithknight in cover as well. But since he tables all of his opponents he must not run into those players. Thus him thinking Wraithknights are crap.

 Julnlecs wrote:
He's also forgetting most players run the Shield and Sword Wraithknight. In which case it would get a 5++. Then most players will Fortune or Invis the wraithknight in cover as well. But since he tables all of his opponents he must not run into those players. Thus him thinking Wraithknights are crap.

Lmao no one runs the sword knight and if they do they don't win very much, also your hoping you get 2 spells, what happens when you don't.? Wraithnights are not as good as you think, what happens when a skyhammer force comes down and kills 2 knights in one go.. Oh that's right you all think the the Knight is amazing lmao

Dman137 wrote:

 Julnlecs wrote:
He's also forgetting most players run the Shield and Sword Wraithknight. In which case it would get a 5++. Then most players will Fortune or Invis the wraithknight in cover as well. But since he tables all of his opponents he must not run into those players. Thus him thinking Wraithknights are crap.

Lmao no one runs the sword knight and if they do they don't win very much, also your hoping you get 2 spells, what happens when you don't.? Wraithnights are not as good as you think, what happens when a skyhammer force comes down and kills 2 knights in one go.. Oh that's right you all think the the Knight is amazing lmao

Man, you sure have a lot of "Well if they do this, I'll do this" speeches lined up. This is a game with a lot of dice rolling. It's easy to say 'well this COULD happen'. Yep, but it also could NOT happen. Just because something can or can't doesn't mean it is or isn't good. My Boyz squad COULD take down various monstrous creatures. It doesn't mean it's GOING to happen or happen RELIABLY. And it also doesn't mean my Boyz are top tier just because they have the POTENTIAL to do things. But it doesn't make them bottom tier for not being able to do a specific thing either.

How does the sky hammer take out two knights in one turn? ??

Thyhadras wrote:
How does the sky hammer take out two knights in one turn? ??

I would have to theorize the potential for Grav getting right up in their face right away, which is basically wraithknights solid counter. Not that that is any different than before. But according to his logic, if there is a potential counter for something, then it's not worth running. At least, that is the gist of what I've been reading.

Melevolence wrote:

Thyhadras wrote:
How does the sky hammer take out two knights in one turn? ??

I would have to theorize the potential for Grav getting right up in their face right away, which is basically wraithknights solid counter. Not that that is any different than before. But according to his logic, if there is a potential counter for something, then it's not worth running. At least, that is the gist of what I've been reading.

Well seeing as in SM got grav everywhere it's going to happen, and yeah it's a hard counter and people no that there going to see wraithnight sap what do you think there going to take lol pretty much every SM army has a pod with cents in it with a Libby. wraithnights were great until the new SM dex came out. 295pts is better spent somewhere else instead of dumping it in one unit that can get deleted in 1 turn.

Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

Exactly. I can't even recall a single Eldar player use Wraithknight and 'bad' in the same sentence, unless it was 'x unit dies badly to Wraithknights' or something along those lines.

So let's look at a point comparison as we are looking at around 300+ points for that one dev squad with grav cannons. ..so the sky hammer is going to be a huge chunk of your army. Honestly I keep hearing how good sky hammer is but for the points it is terrible

niv-mizzet wrote:
Dman: forum-theoryhammer 40k is not actually a winnable game. If you want people to acknowledge the list, show some real evidence. Batreps and tourney results mainly. The more detailed the better.

However, please continue trying to convince other eldar players that wraithknights are bad. I would love to see less of them.

I plan on putting up some bat-reps after this up coming event, last event I wish I had takin some pics/videos my list walked tru every army (my 1500pt list, I've put that list up before for reference) the event was Astronomicon. Came in second for general (final table I have my opponent down to 2 models but he was still holding a objective I was holding one but failed 2 3+ saves and lost my objective, tho I found out after that my opponent cheated and I had no idea) that cost me 1st overall by 3 points.

As for the wraithnights I'm just trying to open people's eyes to the fact that there are way better options to take other then a wraithnight. But clearly the message isn't getting tru lol

It's because there isn't better options.