Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The New DE codex is out and is full of new stuff. Lot of nerfs and a few buffs, but is particularly nice if you are taking DE as CWE allies.

The HQ section seems to have taken a large hit though, with the loss of half the special characters and the old lesser haemoculi.
A lot of wargear got more expensive or worse. Archons no longer have a way to be AP2 in melee and their shadowfield is 10 points more expensive now.

So what direction do you take this All of the detachments require an HQ, and one would think that an fluffy DE army should include a lot of powerful individuals, but there arent too many options.

Urien looks alright, not great but for 140 points he isnt super expensive. T5 and a 4++ followed by 4+FNP probably makes him the most durable HQ.

An archon with a blaster is 75points, 115 if you want a shadowfield. Not too many close combat weapon options and you are giving up 1 attack to wield the blaster anyway.

A succubus has the only source of AP2 for characters for 95 points she is cheap and will do some damage in close combat. With only T3 and a 6+ save when not in combat, she does not make a great warlord

Hold out for the return of Vect?

I think you pretty much hit it.
Urien for warlord.
Succubus for combat.
Archon with retinue is viable.

 Exergy wrote:

An archon with a blaster is 75points, 115 if you want a shadowfield. Not too many close combat weapon options and you are giving up 1 attack to wield the blaster anyway.

This is probably what I'll be doing (it's what I do currently anyway).

Initially when I saw Archon's can take a Venom as a DT I thought there must be something interesting we can shove in there with him, but alas no I think we are restricted to Dark Reapers and the Court (correct me if I'm wrong). We can take a FA Raider but FA is probably our most competitive slot now with cheaper Reavers, better Scourges and smaller BPs. The option is there to drop something nasty down with a Webway portal, but I feel you will get to destroy one thing of your choice then be destroyed yourself.

I think it's totally silly fluff-wise that the DE, supposedly known for striking really fast are the only race along with IG where the HQs can only move 6". Every other codex has bike/jetbike/jump pack/jet pack/cavalry/flying options. I know the underlying reason is there isn't a model for it, but GW would make SO MUCH MONEY if they made one, every single DE player would hand over £20 just like that.

I think Lhameans have a little bit of promise. Throw in one Ur-Ghul to cause Fear tests maybe and you've got a 105 point unit that nobody really wants to go near. But no grenades and the same caveat as always - IF they can get into combat.

Assuming I keep my DE (I'm yet undecided), I'll most likely stick to a Haemonculus (or Urien).

When I saw that the Archon had lost all AP2, my thought was "Oh good, because what I really need is even less motivation to use him." Actually, that's not quite true, my first thought probably involved some swears.

Really, after the Agoniser was nerfed, I struggled to find a reason to take either the Archon or the Succubus. The Huskblade is interesting, but S3 was often problematic, and marines can be made to fail saves by massed shots (so I see no reason to include expensive AP3 melee weapons).

Also, the Succubus seems too fragile to trust as my warlord, and I don't like having multiple HQs with DE.

I read into the WWP, can deep strike without a transport. Seems all three non special characters can take a WWP, of which the archon is the cheapest.

I am thinking about doing that, might be fun for a while with some allied scythe guard or medusa

ryuken87 wrote:
I know the underlying reason is there isn't a model for it, but GW would make SO MUCH MONEY if they made one, every single DE player would hand over £20 just like that.

If only GW asked what their customers wanted, oh wait...

 Zewrath wrote:

ryuken87 wrote:
I know the underlying reason is there isn't a model for it, but GW would make SO MUCH MONEY if they made one, every single DE player would hand over £20 just like that.

If only GW asked what their customers wanted, oh wait...

It isnt like it would be that difficult....

Well, I'm just looking for a cheap Haemi leading a small ally detachment for my Eldar.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I'm just looking for a cheap Haemi leading a small ally detachment for my Eldar.

Haemis are now more expensive than archons, getting cheap HQs is tough in the new dex


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm starting to start to build out a list, so I know how many additional scourges I am going to need and I am running into some trouble.


First, if I take Urien, with his nice 12" bubble of +1turn for PFP, where do I put him. So little of what I am actually going to take actually makes use of PFP, so what is the point?

If I take an archon, and he isnt with a WWP, where does he go. A lot of units went from 3min to 5min, meaning it is difficult to fit them and an archon in a venom.

 Exergy wrote:

First, if I take Urien, with his nice 12" bubble of +1turn for PFP, where do I put him. So little of what I am actually going to take actually makes use of PFP, so what is the point?

I think I'd just take him for his extra survivability and to actually make use of the model. Other than that, I'd just play him as a normal Haemonculus.

If he ever gets to make use of Master of Pain, I'll consider it a bonus.


Possibly something of an aside, but I find myself really annoyed that Urien lost his regeneration ability. Did the designers think to themselves "Well, the book isn't quite bland enough yet - what other unique abilities can we replace with generic ones?"

Archon with Webway Portal and a Haywire Grenade. 100 points to drop a nasty unit somewhere and throw some cheap anti-tank.

 vipoid wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

First, if I take Urien, with his nice 12" bubble of +1turn for PFP, where do I put him. So little of what I am actually going to take actually makes use of PFP, so what is the point?

I think I'd just take him for his extra survivability and to actually make use of the model. Other than that, I'd just play him as a normal Haemonculus.

If he ever gets to make use of Master of Pain, I'll consider it a bonus.


Possibly something of an aside, but I find myself really annoyed that Urien lost his regeneration ability. Did the designers think to themselves "Well, the book isn't quite bland enough yet - what other unique abilities can we replace with generic ones?"

they made IWND USR, and decided that was the same thing.

 Exergy wrote:
I read into the WWP, can deep strike without a transport. Seems all three non special characters can take a WWP, of which the archon is the cheapest.

I am thinking about doing that, might be fun for a while with some allied scythe guard or medusa

Take an Archon with wwp, 5 wraith guard with scythe to deep strike, then put 5 medusa from his court in a venom. So much flame action.

 lambsandlions wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
I read into the WWP, can deep strike without a transport. Seems all three non special characters can take a WWP, of which the archon is the cheapest.

I am thinking about doing that, might be fun for a while with some allied scythe guard or medusa

Take an Archon with wwp, 5 wraith guard with scythe to deep strike, then put 5 medusa from his court in a venom. So much flame action.

In that case, the archon and scythe guard come down pinpoint. But the medusa in his venom, do they come down pinpoint?

That would be kind of sick.

Really depends on the rest of the list on what you do. I won't waste time bemoaning what we didn't get (autarch's can ride a jetbike, but not an archon?).

I'm sitting here racking my brain, and I honestly can't think of a reason to get excited about the HQ slot. As you mentioned, it is a section of bland wargear platforms. Take Urien to make sure you don't give up Warlord if that is an issue.

Fortunately, it doesn't look like the codex needs a crutch wargear holder in order to work. The Real Space Raiders (RSR) detachment is just silly good, and I honestly think we'll be wanting to not even bother with the wargear. With units like reavers, scourges, and trueborn all competing for points in lists souping up your HQ just seems like throwing good money after bad.

I just can't see any self respecting Archon leaving home without a proper close combat weapon. Agoniser seems to be the obvious choice.

I was however wondering whether a blast pistol is ever worth taking? Range is ridiculously short, but it does only need to kill one marine to make its points back (this is assuming one wants to have some sort of a pistol for the extra attack.)

I think things like WWP and Animus Vitae (particularly when used in conjunction) are where the DE HQs really shine.

I think Succubus in particular are pretty solid now. Also, Haemies will still ratchet up the PfP for the unit they receive, that's really not to shabby.

Also, I think people were a little to quick to write off the new Soul Trap. The old version you had to kill with it and it only worked on ICs and MCs (I think, I might be wrong there). The new version works per wound dealt and the only stipulation is challenges. So you could easily get +3 Strength from killing 1 3 Wound character in a challenge. Now, of course, people might just not accept your challenges (accept Chaos), but that has it's own inherent draw backs. It's worth experimenting a bit with at least.

 Exergy wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
I read into the WWP, can deep strike without a transport. Seems all three non special characters can take a WWP, of which the archon is the cheapest.

I am thinking about doing that, might be fun for a while with some allied scythe guard or medusa

Take an Archon with wwp, 5 wraith guard with scythe to deep strike, then put 5 medusa from his court in a venom. So much flame action.

In that case, the archon and scythe guard come down pinpoint. But the medusa in his venom, do they come down pinpoint?

That would be kind of sick.

No, the medusa scatter, but how do you measure flame templates from a raider? If it is anywhere from the hull, you may be able to position the raider to give you or take away a several inches because it is so long and thin.

Oh, and people were quick to call the Parasite's Kiss"trash", but for 5 points it's really not a bad deal at all. You have an 82% chance to force a save onto basically anything in the game, and you'll grab a wound back when they fail.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

No, the medusa scatter, but how do you measure flame templates from a raider? If it is anywhere from the hull, you may be able to position the raider to give you or take away a several inches because it is so long and thin.

Yeah, open top vehicles are anywhere from the hull. A raider full of Medusae could be pretty nasty.

An idea I came up with is an Archon with armour of misery and webway portal. You drop him down and run terror through enemy lines, or better yet put him with 10 D-scythe wraithguard and a few Iyanden spiritseers, the psychic screams alone would be devastating. Or combo it with Hemlocks and boo people off the board.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

ShadarLogoth wrote:


Yeah, open top vehicles are anywhere from the hull. A raider full of Medusae could be pretty nasty.

Only down side is that they are 25pts each and paper thin.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Also, I think people were a little to quick to write off the new Soul Trap. The old version you had to kill with it and it only worked on ICs and MCs (I think, I might be wrong there). The new version works per wound dealt and the only stipulation is challenges. So you could easily get +3 Strength from killing 1 3 Wound character in a challenge. Now, of course, people might just not accept your challenges (accept Chaos), but that has it's own inherent draw backs. It's worth experimenting a bit with at least.

I doubt your archon is going to find too many 3 wound characters that he can actually kill(without EW, 2+ save, or T5) that are going to accept a challenge from him. It would be nice if it came on some character that was actually good in combat, or if it was against any character inside or outside of combat.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
I just can't see any self respecting Archon leaving home without a proper close combat weapon. Agoniser seems to be the obvious choice.

It is looking like this edtions archon isnt very good in combat. ergo I am going to save the 25 points to spend somewhere else, once he gets in combat with something you wish you had a weapon again he is basically dead anyway.

 Crimson wrote:

I was however wondering whether a blast pistol is ever worth taking? Range is ridiculously short, but it does only need to kill one marine to make its points back (this is assuming one wants to have some sort of a pistol for the extra attack.)

Do not take a blast pistol. If you are in range to use it, you are probably going to want to charge after the shooting phase, knocking off a model within 6 means you might fail your charge.

Also 15 points for a weapon you probably will never fire!

I doubt your archon is going to find too many 3 wound characters that he can actually kill(without EW, 2+ save, or T5) that are going to accept a challenge from him. It would be nice if it came on some character that was actually good in combat, or if it was against any character inside or outside of combat.

I think you are underestimating his combat abilities just a tad. WS 7, I7 are pretty beastly. Agonisers, Husk Blades, Djin Blades, are all still pretty decent CC weapons. Not every character in the game has a 2+ save.

And, sure, many will just not accept the challenge. That's still a good thing. Almost all character have non-negligible CC prowess.

Odd but I was thinking Haemonculus for that PfP buff added into Scourges. You trade mobility big time but 4+ / 6++ / 5+fnp is a little more durable than people give ot credit for, especially at Haywire range... or am I mistaken?

 RancidHate wrote:
Odd but I was thinking Haemonculus for that PfP buff added into Scourges. You trade mobility big time but 4+ / 6++ / 5+fnp is a little more durable than people give ot credit for, especially at Haywire range... or am I mistaken?

120 points of scourges, that have 12" move or DS

Put a haemi with them, and he only gives them 6+ FNP on turn one, but makes the unit cost 190 points

seems like a lot of points for a 1/6 chance to save str5 or less wounds

Stick the Haemi with the jet bikes turn 1.
Then you get the FNP on a T4 (or possibly T5 with drugs) unit.
5+/3++jink and 6+fnp, going to 5+ fnp turn2 and 4+fnp turn3.

When you need the speed, leave him behind.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Stick the Haemi with the jet bikes turn 1.
Then you get the FNP on a T4 (or possibly T5 with drugs) unit.
5+/3++jink and 6+fnp, going to 5+ fnp turn2 and 4+fnp turn3.

When you need the speed, leave him behind.

Haemis do not grant +1 FNP, they increase the turn number. So turn 2 they would give 5+ FNP instead of 6+ and turn 3 turn, they would get FC a turn early.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Stick the Haemi with the jet bikes turn 1.
Then you get the FNP on a T4 (or possibly T5 with drugs) unit.
5+/3++jink and 6+fnp, going to 5+ fnp turn2 and 4+fnp turn3.

When you need the speed, leave him behind.

I just don't see that use anymore. We have basically two HQ slots that should be re-titled to WWP carriers. I don't want to waste that potential on a babysitter.

If you need to increase the PfP table why are people not taking Urien rackarth?

 Red Corsair wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Stick the Haemi with the jet bikes turn 1.
Then you get the FNP on a T4 (or possibly T5 with drugs) unit.
5+/3++jink and 6+fnp, going to 5+ fnp turn2 and 4+fnp turn3.

When you need the speed, leave him behind.

I just don't see that use anymore. We have basically two HQ slots that should be re-titled to WWP carriers. I don't want to waste that potential on a babysitter.

yeah, again a 70 point babysitter to increase surviability of such a cheap unit by 1/6 on the first two turns. Not worth it.

Naked archon, cheap hq best hq.

I think I'm gonna equip my Archon with a Blaster and give him a Venom to skim around the battlefield.