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What rules do you abide by when you play 40K?
For example, mine is:

•I must obey the BRB.
•Even the stupid rules.
•Even the rule that says FMCs have to start the game in Gliding mode.
•I may not take 2 Flyrants in a 500 point game, even if the rules say I can.
•I am not allowed to call anyone TFG or WAAC except myself.
•Not allowed to touch my opponent's models without permission.
•I must ask my opponent's permission to use 2+ rerollables in casual games.
•Psychological warfare is a dick move.
•I must use common sense, and use common sense when figuring out what "common sense" is.

How is psychological warfare a dick move? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, it's an integral part of the game.

 Jimsolo wrote:
How is psychological warfare a dick move? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, it's an integral part of the game.

Psychological warfare is insulting your opponent or their skills to make them play poorly. What you refer to is gameplay.

Verviedi wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
How is psychological warfare a dick move? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, it's an integral part of the game.

Psychological warfare is insulting your opponent or their skills to make them play poorly. What you refer to is gameplay.

I don't think I've ever met someone who thinks that's "psychological warfare." Do you have players that think/do that? That's...really pathetic.


Personal "code of honor?"

1. Dice not flat on the table are to be refilled, as are dice that fall out of your hand during the shuckle. Even if they are flat, but land on a base or on area terrain, I reroll them.
2. For vehicles with odd sections that may or may not be hull, I let my opponent decide. (Drop Pod doors and Raider prows are the two most frequent examples.)
3. I don't roll dice when my opponent isn't looking unless he's expressly told me to.
4. Before forfeiting, I will ask my opponent's permission, and usually ask if they legitimately think there's a possibility of me turning my defeat around.
5. I always play RAW unless the RAI is crystal clear.
6. In a caveat to the above: I also play the popular interpretation of the rules, even if I "know" the popular interpretation is wrong.

I bring the hardest list I can muster, I play to the best of my ability, and I do not insult you by not doing the other two.

I always help my opponent out on rules they may have been forgetting, that's advantageous to them, and not necessarily to me. Like to re-roll their Ones on Preferred Enemy, or to roll for their reserves and such.

1. First and foremost, go into the game to have fun. This goes for not just myself, but for my opponent. This is a game. Games are designed to be fun. Not having fun is a waste of both yours and my own time.
2. To play by the rules to the best of our abilities.
3. To never 'take back' a bad move, or to retroactively perform something I missed that could be potentially beneficial to myself (such as saves of some kind). One cannot learn to remember these things on their own if they do not suffer the consequences. (And as such, I forget far less than ever before)
4. To never touch my opponents models unless given permission to do so. It is not my property, I have zero right to touch it without their say.
5. To always shake my opponents hand at the beginning and end of every game. If a handshake is not in their repertoire, then a fist bump works just as well. Some sort of sign that I enjoyed my game, win or lose, and to show my respect to you as a fellow player of this game.
6. To always ensure that we have at least one, heart felt laugh during the game. Das wut dat Orks are for!

Verviedi wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
How is psychological warfare a dick move? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, it's an integral part of the game.

Psychological warfare is insulting your opponent or their skills to make them play poorly. What you refer to is gameplay.

Insulting your opponent is insulting your opponent, Psychological warfare is making them second guess an obvious choice to choose a poorer one.

Right, there are a lot of ways to psyk out you opponent without doing anything questionable.

 Jimsolo wrote:
How is psychological warfare a dick move? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, it's an integral part of the game.

Because "psychological warfare" usually refers to dishonest tactics like trying to distract your opponent so that they make a mistake, trying to rush them through their turn and constantly asking "are you done yet?" so that they forget to move/shoot/assault with a unit, etc. It's things that aren't technically against the rules of the game, but are an attempt to win because of what you do while you're playing instead of how well you play the game.

Psychological Warfare is standing next to your opponent on their side of the table, politely dismantling his dude in his deployment zone. Talk about disrupting their game plan!

SJ

 Peregrine wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
How is psychological warfare a dick move? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, it's an integral part of the game.

Because "psychological warfare" usually refers to dishonest tactics like trying to distract your opponent so that they make a mistake, trying to rush them through their turn and constantly asking "are you done yet?" so that they forget to move/shoot/assault with a unit, etc. It's things that aren't technically against the rules of the game, but are an attempt to win because of what you do while you're playing instead of how well you play the game.

I consider it stuff like
"Im going to shoot the StormRaven"
With a response like
"Hmm, Thats an interesting move, but ok"
Gets them to second guess.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I consider it stuff like
"Im going to shoot the StormRaven"
With a response like
"Hmm, Thats an interesting move, but ok"
Gets them to second guess.

And that's what I mean by dishonest behavior: you're trying to be as annoying as possible so you can get your opponent to make a mistake. It's the kind of thing that only people who suck at the game and have no other hope of winning have to resort to.

How, How is making my opponent second guess his move bad?

Peregrine, I disagree. A good player will never be a great player unitl they can disarm their opponent via correct use of psychology and charisma. And that, my friend, is the "heart" of Psychological Warfare.

SJ

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How, How is making my opponent second guess his move bad?

Because you're doing it by trying to be as obnoxious as possible and making the game a lot less enjoyable for your opponent. If they just tell you to STFU and ignore you then your "strategy" accomplishes nothing. It can only work if you can force them to pay attention to you instead of just playing the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Peregrine, I disagree. A good player will never be a great player unitl they can disarm their opponent via correct use of psychology and charisma. And that, my friend, is the "heart" of Psychological Warfare.

That's like saying a good player can never be great until they master the use of loaded dice. A great player doesn't need psychological gimmicks to win, they just win by being better at the game. Having to resort to trying to be so annoying that your opponent makes a mistake is the kind of thing you do when you don't think that your in-game actions will be enough to win.

 Peregrine wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How, How is making my opponent second guess his move bad?

Because you're doing it by trying to be as obnoxious as possible and making the game a lot less enjoyable for your opponent. If they just tell you to STFU and ignore you then your "strategy" accomplishes nothing. It can only work if you can force them to pay attention to you instead of just playing the game.

No its not, if you are CONFIDENT in your skills, then it will work.

I play for fun first and formost.

I do not like to bring flyers or super heavys unless my opponent has something that has chance to deal with them.

Im up for bending the rules in it is common sense.

I allow saving throws when ever it is even slightly possible, it isnt fun for anybody when you cannot even role a dice.

Psychological warfare (and resisting psychological warfare even moreso) is an integral part of face-to-face gaming. Even the 'poker face', not letting your opponent see how you really feel about the developments in the game is a simple form of psychological warfare.

Gaming skill can only take you so far, unless you're the best gamer to walk the face of the Earth by a large margin. Sooner or later you will encounter people of equal skill who employ psychological warfare, and consequently win more.

I don't cheat, and I don't touch your stuff. Everything else falls under general rules for interacting with other humans.

Short version, don't be a dick. Long version:

1. Communicate clearly. If you're rolling dice, explain what they're for and what the number you need is. If you're not sure about a rule ask, if a conflict/confusing situation comes up get perspectives before making judgement calls.

2. Pay attention. Don't walk away from the table, don't sit reading a book during your opponent's turn. Don't lose interest and pack up four turns in.

3. Check boundaries. Don't start handling the other guy's stuff without asking, don't analyze or criticize his plays without checking if it's okay. Even if you love postmorteming the game and figuring out how you could have played better some people don't like you dissecting their choices, ask before starting.

4. Play to your opponent. Prep different lists and ask ahead of time how competitive your opponent is prepared to be. Don't be afraid to ease off if the game is turning into a curbstomp, be prepared to go for lesser victories even if the main objective is out of reach. Close games are fun for everyone, one-sided turn-three wipes are fun for nobody.

5. Play to the rules. If it's your longtime group of friends with a set of standard house rules that's great, but if you're wandering into a new gamestore for a pick-up game against someone you just met assume you're playing everything completely rules-as-written. We know GW can't write clear rules to save their lives, if your interpretation of what the rulebook says differs from the other guy's and one sentence each fails to convince the other side roll off for whose interpretation stands and then stay consistent for the rest of the game.

6. Be respectful. There is a time and a place for trash talk; we're playing a strategy game here. This is not the time or the place. Expect the same standards of behavior here as in any conversation; if you have things to bitch about, set them aside and bitch about them later. Be positive in the moment.

LordBlades wrote:
Sooner or later you will encounter people of equal skill who employ psychological warfare, and consequently win more.

And then you ignore everything they say that isn't a statement about what in-game actions they are taking, and their whole "psychological warfare" gimmick instantly becomes worthless. Well, not entirely worthless. It does tell you that they're the kind of person who will eagerly trade having an enjoyable game where neither player tries to annoy the other into submission for a 0.000001% increased chance of winning.

Rule 1: Have fun and always try to ensure my opponent is too.

Rule 2: No Cheating.

Rule 3: I run my lists with No 'List Tailoring'.

Rule 4: Always shake hands with the opponent at the beginning/end of every game.

Rule 5: Always be respectful and try to be patient for as much as is seemly/possible, especially with new players.

Rule 6: Stick to the rulebooks/codex as much as possible but be prepared to give some wiggle room on stupid or unfair rulings. (Complete agreement on both parties.)

As for Psychological warfare, it is part of the game and as long as it is not aggressive/dick-ish I have no issue with it, it is an integral part of wargaming and lets not forget actual war.

I don't employ it myself, but I wouldn't hold it against an opponent for trying.

 Peregrine wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Sooner or later you will encounter people of equal skill who employ psychological warfare, and consequently win more.

And then you ignore everything they say that isn't a statement about what in-game actions they are taking, and their whole "psychological warfare" gimmick instantly becomes worthless. Well, not entirely worthless. It does tell you that they're the kind of person who will eagerly trade having an enjoyable game where neither player tries to annoy the other into submission for a 0.000001% increased chance of winning.

why do you equate psychological warfare with annoying? You don't have to annoy the other player to make him second guess their calls. Just make him lose concentration (which can be even achieved by friendly conversation)

LordBlades wrote:
why do you equate psychological warfare with annoying? You don't have to annoy the other player to make him second guess their calls.

Saying things like "are you sure you want to do that" is just annoying. You and I both know that you're not giving me honest advice, so all you're doing is making pointless noise and delaying my dice rolls.

 Peregrine wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
why do you equate psychological warfare with annoying? You don't have to annoy the other player to make him second guess their calls.

Saying things like "are you sure you want to do that" is just annoying. You and I both know that you're not giving me honest advice, so all you're doing is making pointless noise and delaying my dice rolls.

But graciously commenting on stuff like 'what nicely painted models you have' or 'cool conversion, how did you do that' just at the right time is slightly less annoying and can still break concentration.

Same for pretending to be thinking/calculating/there is something bigger behind unimportant moves to give just a couple of examples.

LordBlades wrote:
But graciously commenting on stuff like 'what nicely painted models you have' or 'cool conversion, how did you do that' just at the right time is slightly less annoying and can still break concentration.

Ok, so it's not annoying, it's just being an insincere . If you're only complimenting someone's models so that you can distract them and hope to get them to make a mistake then you really need to reevaluate your priorities in life.

Same for pretending to be thinking/calculating/there is something bigger behind unimportant moves to give just a couple of examples.

IOW, wasting time instead of just rolling the dice and finishing the game at an efficient pace. How exactly is that NOT annoying?

Or maybe you jsut genuinely like the guy's models, you're just picking the right (or wrong) time to say it?

Also, do you mean to imply thinking and calculating is annoying?

LordBlades wrote:
Or maybe you jsut genuinely like the guy's models, you're just picking the right (or wrong) time to say it?

If you genuinely want to give a compliment then do it before or after the game. Using a compliment as a strategic distraction means that you care much less about the compliment itself than how it can be used to gain some tiny advantage in the game. That's the kind of calculating behavior that sociopaths embrace, not something you should do if you're genuinely just trying to be nice.

Also, do you mean to imply thinking and calculating is annoying?

Only if you're just pretending to think and calculate about a trivial decision because of "psychological warfare". If you're honestly thinking about a decision that's fine. If you know exactly what you're going to do and you're just pretending to think so that I'll make a mistake then stop wasting my time.

Peregrine has the right of it here, in my opinion.

My personal rules are:

- take everything in stride. Laugh about my own mistakes.
- play by the rules. Never bend anything for advantage.
- if I'm losing horribly, enjoy the story created and the spectacle of painted miniatures arranged on a tabletop.
- don't touch other's miniatures without permission, and once given hold them by the base at all times.