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Im after two games that play similar to GWs, with models that can match their quality and have robust rules. Because:

Start rant:

I got tired of Fantasy's magic phase. If it were on par with the power of melee or shooting it would be the best game ever imo.

40k 7th ed it just too overwhelming and random. I like tactical nuance, but in order to achieve this Id need to 'know my enemy', thus having to spend 100s to learn all their rules (TAC is dead, long live brute force lists?)

End rant.

Look forward to your suggestions.

Look into Malifaux or Privateer Press games. Both of them are open beta tested and are solid games. I prefer Malifaux, which is more skirmish based and tactical, in my mind, but to each their own.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/369662.page

GW seems to have conned a lot of people into thinking that if you want to play, you have use their specific minis with their specific rules, and you have to keep buying, buying, buying. Attitudes that seem to bleed through to other games.
Instead, keep your WFB and 40K minis. Keep the background if you like it, especially any personal fluff for your armies or characters. Just try using them with different rules.
Here's a list of other tactical mass-battle fantasy wargames - most of them have units similar to WFB, generic unit entries, or unit creation rules, that you can slot your WFB minis into without too much pushing and jiggling. And here's a few examples of minis arranged on the element/unit bases that they use. Kings of War seems to be one of the most popular, but personally I like the look of Legions of Battle and especially Mayhem.

There are a few sci-fi platoon games floating about, that can do the same for 40K. Some examples include Warpath 2.0, Stargrunt II, 5150, and Tomorrow's War. My first choice is Victory Decision: Future Combat. See further descriptions and especially the design notes here. The writer was a playtester on Epic: Armageddon, and incorporated a few of that game's mechanics into ViDe:FuCo, which I count as a good thing.
I'd also say something about Rogue Planet, coming from the same (Origins award-nominated) writer as Mayhem, but I'm starting to wonder if Amazon is ever going to deliver my print copy...

I got mine almost exactly 48 hours after purchase!!! I have yet to try it out though....

I'm always looking for new systems and such, since I haven't found anything that scratches my itch perfectly. I honestly think the most fun I've had with miniatures battling was D&D 4th.

Also, Malifaux is an amazingly intuitive ruleset.

Vermis has made a pretty good list, other than those I would say Infinity is probably towards the top of that list in terms of tactical nuance, I've been playing for years and am still discovering new things about how to play. Great time to get into it as well, as there is now a new starter set (called Operation Icestorm) and the 3rd edition rules have just been released.

There are lots of historical games as well which offer this, I'm really enjoying Saga at the moment, but a lot depends on what period and scale you wanted to play.

KSpen wrote:Im after two games that play similar to GWs, with models that can match their quality and have robust rules. Because:

Start rant:

I got tired of Fantasy's magic phase. If it were on par with the power of melee or shooting it would be the best game ever imo.

40k 7th ed it just too overwhelming and random. I like tactical nuance, but in order to achieve this Id need to 'know my enemy', thus having to spend 100s to learn all their rules (TAC is dead, long live brute force lists?)

End rant.

Look forward to your suggestions.

Vermis wrote:

GW seems to have conned a lot of people into thinking that if you want to play, you have use their specific minis with their specific rules, and you have to keep buying, buying, buying. Attitudes that seem to bleed through to other games.
Instead, keep your WFB and 40K minis. Keep the background if you like it, especially any personal fluff for your armies or characters. Just try using them with different rules.
Here's a list of other tactical mass-battle fantasy wargames - most of them have units similar to WFB, generic unit entries, or unit creation rules, that you can slot your WFB minis into without too much pushing and jiggling. And here's a few examples of minis arranged on the element/unit bases that they use. Kings of War seems to be one of the most popular, but personally I like the look of Legions of Battle and especially Mayhem.

There are a few sci-fi platoon games floating about, that can do the same for 40K. Some examples include Warpath 2.0, Stargrunt II, 5150, and Tomorrow's War. My first choice is Victory Decision: Future Combat. See further descriptions and especially the design notes here. The writer was a playtester on Epic: Armageddon, and incorporated a few of that game's mechanics into ViDe:FuCo, which I count as a good thing.
I'd also say something about Rogue Planet, coming from the same (Origins award-nominated) writer as Mayhem, but I'm starting to wonder if Amazon is ever going to deliver my print copy...

Use any minis you want, there are many manufacturers out there that equal or surpass GW.

For humans go with Perry, Wargames Factory (who also make awesome orcs and skeletons) or Fireforge. Any other monster types go Reaper and Mantic.

Personally I am currently interested in Mayhem, Song of Blades and Heroes (Ganesha Games has a mass battle set coming soon), and backed the Kings of War 2.0 kickstarter.

Personally I am at a point which I will use what minis I choose with the rules I choose. The little lead men don't know the difference and better rules can be had at a fraction of GW's silly price.

You can also use Gripping Beast or any of the Warlord Games miniatures for humans. Mix and match to suit your needs.

If you're looking to keep using your existing miniatures then Kings of War, Warpath and OnePage40k have completely different rulesets but the same sorts of model and unit.

If you're looking to keep playing in the GW universe with GW-quality minis, I'd recommend checking out their specialist games - Necromunda and Battlefleet Gothic still have big followings, don't take long to collect, and are widely regarded as some of the best games GW ever made. Most Necromunda gangs can be easily built from plastic 40k models.

If you're looking for something completely different, Infinity, Malifaux and the Warmahordes games are pretty popular.

In 1979, a company in the USA released a game called (I kid you not):

Space Marines

To this day, I have yet to see a better skirmish, or Platoon to Company level, individual man, miniatures game. It was intended to be the ground combat rules for their role playing game, Space Opera

If you like rule's lawyering, Squad Leader (another game from the 1970's, from SPI, I think - maybe Avalon Hill) is perhaps the most realistic Squad to Company level game play (it plays best with a Platoon to each side - obviously focused upon Infantry).

And, there remain other games that surpass 40K, yet which have a hard time gaining a following because they were never supported (Striker, Striker II, Dirtside, Stargrunt, and for a while, Steve Jackson produced a Sci-Fi skirmish game that went with The Fantasy Trip, Melee, and Wizards. He also produced Battlesuit. Which was for the OGRE/GEV universe).

For Fantasy rules.

People are also largely unaware of Hoards of the Things, and Here there be Dragons, which were the fantasy versions of DBA and DBM, respectively.

Field of Glory has an unpublished set of Fantasy rules (still being expanded, and in need of some WHFB additions to the rules lists) that might eventually get published if I can start getting to conventions to support them (I need to finish painting my damned armies first - for which I have half a Rohirrim and half a Hithaeglir Goblin/Orc army, each, painted.... I need to get the Gondorian, Mordor, and Mirkwood Silvan Elves finished to be able to really run an event at a convention).

Similarly, Hoplon (a variant of DBM with units and morale - even though it came out years before FoG, people have said it is similar to a cross between DBM and FoG) is an awesome set of rules, which plays better than WHFB in terms of balance and speed, and which has an unofficial set of Fantasy adaptations.

Both the FoG Fantasy and Hoplon Fantasy rules have less "magic" in them! and most magic is treated as simply a modifier to the combat or morale (or possibly movement) of a unit, and magic exists in a variety of implementations for them (to deal with different universes: D&D, Runequest, WHFB, Middle-earth, Hyboria, Moorcock's Elric's Young Kingdoms, etc.) things like D&D, or some iterations of WHFB, the magic is used like tokens which the player simply "plays" at any point in the game.

For Runequest, or the Young Kingdoms, Magic is done on a basis of points, which may be expended to cast certain spells. Some spells can always be cast, at any time. Others are one use (but still use points). And these two are just used at any time, where appropriate.

So there is no real "magic" phase. Although for Ritual Magic, these take place in the "Command Phases" of each set of rules.

And... There is an unpublished (but still available) set of rules called Ancient Conquest (written by Frank Chadwick) that is readily adapted to Fantasy. The rules already use "event cards" that can be played at any time.

Just add "spells" to the event cards to introduce magic.

A friend in Houston and I used to play this before I moved to LA in 2006.

The latter three have a very different flavor to WHFB, but produce a much more playable game in terms of speed of play, and no weird things happening due to gamey tricks in the rules.

MB

Thanks for all your advice.

Im thinking about warmachine and starwars.

I think a balance of what is played/popular and matches my ideal play style/ruleset which will determine an enjoyable game system.

KSpen wrote:

I think a balance of what is played/popular

I gotta ask, if you mean 'what is played/popular in my area', why are you asking here? If you don't, pick what you like! Introduce it to other gamers and make it played/popular!

Check out Warzone Resurrection. Hands down the most fun I have had playing since back in the 90s with WZ 1st ed and 40K 2nd ed. Beautiful models, great game play, and free rules. YOu can go to Prodos Games website and download the rulebook and factions for free. Check them out. Doesn't cost a fortune to play either unlike 40k.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:
Look into Malifaux or Privateer Press games. Both of them are open beta tested and are solid games. I prefer Malifaux, which is more skirmish based and tactical, in my mind, but to each their own.

I'd consider PP.
Their rule set is much tighter and they have a nice tournament format. See Steamroller 2015.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Valhallan42nd wrote:
Look into Malifaux or Privateer Press games. Both of them are open beta tested and are solid games. I prefer Malifaux, which is more skirmish based and tactical, in my mind, but to each their own.

I'd consider PP.
Their rule set is much tighter and they have a nice tournament format. See Steamroller 2015.

Tighter than 40k? Yes. Malifaux is also fairly tight. I'd suggest looking into it. Gaining Grounds 2015 is our tourney doc. It does require painting, though.

I'd second the suggestion of Kings of War as a replacement for WHFB. It's got many similarities to WHFB, but without the magic phase and many less layers of special rules.

As Vermis so eloquently says, you can use your WHFB figs, or KoW figs, or pick figs from any other manufacturer. No sense in leaving GW's all-in-one demands and buying into someone else's all-in-one demands.

Plus, the KoW rules are free, so you can give them a try with the figs you've got before committing.

I have played 40k for years and spent a fortune in 4 massive armies. All this time thinking that 40k is the the only option and the only game with players.

I discovered Warlord Games a few months back, and Im so happy. For the price of one Gargantuan Creature I can buy an entire 1,000 + point army. The game is truly tactical. First time I played the first thing I said: "This is what 40k is supposed to be".

First Suggestion is check out Warlord Games, all the games are good:

Bolt Action is WW2, but it is an awesome game with big player base.
Konflict 47 is WW2 Sci-Fi, looks cool and want to get started on that.
Antares is a Sci-Fi 40k style game.
The Terminator game looks great, with rules that work.
A bunch more Historical period games.

Infinity is interesting
Fleet games; Like Star Wars Armada, or Halo Fleet


I am so done with 40K. One of the first things I noticed buying from other companies is "Customer Service" !!!! yes remember what that is? I forgot....

40K is just broken beyond repair. every time that I play I have some bloke with some super unit with with rerollable everything and 3 saves. And facebook FAQ!!! and bickering about rules with every player, because there are dozens of rules sets, and hundreds of interpretations.

GW should hire someone with education above High School that knows how to write. Until they rewrite everything; (Maybe 8th edition) im out, So many more games out there that are far superior.

There are a lot of great games out there. and even some of the old OOP have fans and players.
WoK
KoW
warzone
warmachine
Void
confrontation
hordes
malifaux
battletech
lord of the rings/hobbit (yeah its GW but they got this one right)
chronopia
Celtos
those are just a few.

One argument there-GW has fantastic customer service. I've never experienced anything else than workers for GW going above and beyond for me when the company makes a mistake.

Definitely check to see if you'll have available players whether that be at some spot you frequent... or with people you know who might play...

There's plenty of stuff out there I'd love to try but haven't really invested in because of issues with player base for my area...

It doesn't stop me from buying a piece or two if I like a sculpt or something... but there are plenty of games I wish I had the experience of really getting into but didn't because of the lack of available players.

Of course, if resources were no question.... then... ALL THE GAMES!!!!!

As for suggestions for games regardless of the player base or resource issues, I'd be hard hit to help you... plenty of the games I've played or been interested in have move beyond the rules/versions I'm familiar with.

But... lets say you're actually getting ready to borrow Rufus' Telephone Booth... here's stuff I liked to play alternative to GW stuff... based on older versions:

-Warmachine (I played plenty of MK1 and a teeny bit of MK2) - I like the design of the stuff with its 'Its not steam punk but we'll call it steam punk' look... The lore is pretty rich and has a bit more consistency. While some combos can be fun and neat to pull off, even the basic attacks or special attacks without being used in a combo are pretty fun.

-Hordes (I played plenty of MK1 and a teeny bit of MK2) - I like the kind of 'main stream stylized fantasy' look... It reminds me of when I fell in love with Chris Metzen's take on some fantasy stuff... Its lore is part of Warmachine's lore so its a given that i like it. Same thing with the combos and abilities, but also plus one for the whole Fury/Frenzy mechanic... I loved forcing my beasts into being more apt to got ape gak (or is that Wolf gak?).

-Infinity (Corvus Belli's game... not the Disney game as one person thought a couple years ago on a post I made here... I played a bit before the original Paradiso book came out... well before 3rd... maybe 2nd?) - 'Ghost in the Shell' was the first thing that came to mind when I saw some of the models for the first time... I love the designs; a lot more sleeker than other sci-fi stuff I'd seen. The background stuff I haven't delved too much into. But how it looks is pretty awesome. I really enjoyed the mechanics... I like how the weapons were handled especially in regards to how range has a factor in the damage. I can't remember specifics on what else with the mechanics I loved but it felt like a dream game.

-Godslayer (I forget the 'subtitle' to the game... usually when I try to look it up, that one deck building game comes up... Ascension?... played this when it first released with a buddy back in Cali) - The designs for this game were kind of neat in that it utilized some older real world type aesthetics... for example the faction I tried out... the Mortans... resemble ancient Roman military. The faction my buddy played looked like the Greek counterpart. Their Banebrood (beastmen type) and Nordgaard (pretty much dwarfs) were 2 other factions that looked cool. The mechanics were similar to Warmachine/Hordes with some of the abilities and a resource type of mechanic. I'm not sure if this game is still going.

-Wrath of Kings (Played soon after the original Kickstarter ended but nothing beyond a couple games) - I like the designs with this game as well... I believe an artist with the original Confrontation game worked on this?... The Nasier are my favorite with their denomic look... the Teknes which to me evoke a 'twisted gnome' kind of feel... The mechanics are okay... they're similar to warmachine/hordes but maybe with a couple extra factors to keep track of... it wasn't a deal breaker for me but it just seemed like a little extra.

-Checkers (First played this when I was younger... but only if my GI Joes or Transformers weren't readily handy) - Best design ever... the version I played had little discs... and the subtle color choice of black and red just nails it... like a battle for the human soul you know?! The mechanics are kind of awesome... you fething jump over the other piece to attack it... and you can even do combos and jump over more than one piece... pretty dang O.P. They need to address that in a FAQ... Still crossing my fingers for a well done VR version.

i will had my voice in favor of Kings of War if you want a Fantasy ranked battle system and are tired of the extremes of warhammer

How about Lord of the Rings from Games Workshop? That is a solid great set of rules. I am sure you can find them on eBay or what not, or if you want brand new The Hobbit, it's basically the same.

I used the LotR rules for 40K minis and my son loved the game so much more.

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.



No real harm done though.

There's a sticky... and maybe even a more recent thread knocking about , possibly.