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The Assault Terminator and Tactical Terminator unit entries no longer exist- they would be replaced with this profile.



Terminators

90 points

3 Terminators

Stat Block
Terminators: WS4 / BS4 / S4 / T4 / W1 / A2 / I4 /Ld9 / 2+sv
Veteran Sargent Terminator: WS4 / BS4 / S4 / T4 / W1 / A3 / I4 /Ld10 / 2+sv

Wargear
Storm-Bolter
Power Weapon
Terminator Armor

Options

- Any model may replace their storm-bolter with a:

Close-Combat Weapon --- Free
Storm-Shield --- 5ppm
Combi-Weapon --- 5ppm
Heavy Bolter --- 5ppm
Heavy Flamer ---10ppm
Autocannon --- 10ppm
Missile Launcher --- 10ppm
Plasma Cannon --- 20ppm
Multi-Melta --- 20ppm
Typhoon Missile Launcher --- 20ppm
Assault Cannon ---30ppm

- Any model may replace their power weapon and/or storm-bolter with a:

Lightning Claw --- 5ppm
Power Fist --- 5ppm
Thunder Hammer --- 10ppm
Chain-Fist --- 20ppm


- One Terminator may be upgraded to a Veteran Sargent for 10 points
- A Veteran Sargent may take melta bombs for 5 points

- The unit may purchase a Land Raider (Godhammer, Crusader and Redeemer patterns) as a dedicated transport
- A unit numbering 8 models may purchase a Land Raider Crusader as a dedicated transport for 200 points


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let's get this E-rage party started.

No more invuln? The cheaper SS will help I guess.

Three questions, can I take a SS and, say, an assault cannon?
And did you mean cyclone missile launcher, or make some form of hand-held typhoon launcher?
If cyclone, can I take a cyclone launcher, an assault cannon, and a SS all on one model?

Well, does this imply that PA veteran squad sergeants are also a3 ld10? Or, since the new squad size and wargear are modified background as a pretext for modified rules, are you saying terminator sergeants stay behind or are different when the terminators put on power armor? I like the a veteran-er sergeant, but it seems like he'd be ws5 a2, not ws4 a3.

I was about to do a discussion thread on why multi-melta terminators make sense to you, playing a game, but not to terminators, who don't know that "Relentless" and Heavy 1 are things.

I feel like the typos and the names of the land raiders are probably intentional, so I'm going to watch. Seriously, you'll be able to tell if posters have read the thread if they're shouting about them.

No max unit size. I am definitely bringing 34 terminators with 33 Assault Cannons to an unbound 2k game.

Hell, for 300 points I get five relentless assault cannons?

what.

I'm a blaxican too

Why has the chainfist gone up ten points from the current Marine book?

I'd go for this

And why can't a three-model squad take a Helios as a Dedicated Transport? They'd fit.

I like the revamp ideas. I would probably even reduce the base cost down to 26 points.

The full decked out terms with AC and SS would cost a whopping 61 points and have no CC ability. They would be on par with T5 2 W centurians with Gravguns.

3 man MM drop squads would be 138 points. I think you'd see a lot of those. Still require some decent firepower to bring down making for a solid suicide option.

Mass heavy bolter terms would also be a thing and that would probably be the most fun.

It just hit me that a standard marine with a power sword would only be 1 point cheaper than these..... So 1 point for 2+ armor, more attacks, and higher leadership. Why wouldn't everyone run nothing but terminators?

So do terminators under this rule keep relentless and their invul save? And why are chainfists more expensive than a thunder hammer? A chain fist should be 5 points more than a powerfist and not a point more. Other than that, these rules don't look bad at first blush.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbobbito wrote:
It just hit me that a standard marine with a power sword would only be 1 point cheaper than these..... So 1 point for 2+ armor, more attacks, and higher leadership. Why wouldn't everyone run nothing but terminators?

This is because a lot of the space marine upgrades are seriously over costed. IMO a power weapon (not including power fist obviously) should cost 10pts.

 kingbobbito wrote:
It just hit me that a standard marine with a power sword would only be 1 point cheaper than these..... So 1 point for 2+ armor, more attacks, and higher leadership. Why wouldn't everyone run nothing but terminators?

Look at a strike squad marine. 20 points - get a force sword and a storm bolter and str 6 close combat from hammer hand - can transport in a rhino and has natural deep strike too. It seems like all this stuff is a bargain right? no - not really - they still aren't used because they just cost too much for 1w models that die easy. 2+ save terminators still die easy. The actual value of the protection of 2+ armor from 3+ armor is worth about 6 points IMO. They gain relentless but also lose the ability to have a cheap transport, lose the ability to make sweeping advances - this is just a free trade off IMO. 26 points seems right to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NorseSig wrote:
So do terminators under this rule keep relentless and their invul save? And why are chainfists more expensive than a thunder hammer? A chain fist should be 5 points more than a powerfist and not a point more. Other than that, these rules don't look bad at first blush.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbobbito wrote:
It just hit me that a standard marine with a power sword would only be 1 point cheaper than these..... So 1 point for 2+ armor, more attacks, and higher leadership. Why wouldn't everyone run nothing but terminators?

This is because a lot of the space marine upgrades are seriously over costed. IMO a power weapon (not including power fist obviously) should cost 10pts.

Strike squad marines pay 6 points for a force sword, storm bolter, and hammer hand. Still they aren't used.

I'm liking your idea, but I have some questions.
Why is the Chain Fist so expensive?
Why are Multi-meltas 20pts each, as opposed to the Missile being 10pts each? (I have a feeling I know why, but I'd like to hear your reason)
Why are Assault Cannons 30pts?

Also, there's no option to buy additional Terminator models for that unit. I'll assume there is supposed to be, given the LRC option.

 Xenomancers wrote:

The full decked out terms with AC and SS would cost a whopping 61 points and have no CC ability. They would be on par with T5 2 W centurians with Gravguns.

Unless I'm missing something, you wouldn't be able to run AC/SS terminators. The SS is the Storm Bolter swap out, so is the AC.

Unit1126PLL wrote: No max unit size. I am definitely bringing 34 terminators with 33 Assault Cannons to an unbound 2k game.

There's no permission to buy additional models, either.

But you could bring plenty anyway, since it's unbound.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:
It just hit me that a standard marine with a power sword would only be 1 point cheaper than these..... So 1 point for 2+ armor, more attacks, and higher leadership. Why wouldn't everyone run nothing but terminators?

Look at a strike squad marine. 20 points - get a force sword and a storm bolter and str 6 close combat from hammer hand - can transport in a rhino and has natural deep strike too. It seems like all this stuff is a bargain right? no - not really - they still aren't used because they just cost too much for 1w models that die easy. 2+ save terminators still die easy. The actual value of the protection of 2+ armor from 3+ armor is worth about 6 points IMO. They gain relentless but also lose the ability to have a cheap transport, lose the ability to make sweeping advances - this is just a free trade off IMO. 26 points seems right to me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NorseSig wrote:
So do terminators under this rule keep relentless and their invul save? And why are chainfists more expensive than a thunder hammer? A chain fist should be 5 points more than a powerfist and not a point more. Other than that, these rules don't look bad at first blush.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kingbobbito wrote:
It just hit me that a standard marine with a power sword would only be 1 point cheaper than these..... So 1 point for 2+ armor, more attacks, and higher leadership. Why wouldn't everyone run nothing but terminators?

This is because a lot of the space marine upgrades are seriously over costed. IMO a power weapon (not including power fist obviously) should cost 10pts.

Strike squad marines pay 6 points for a force sword, storm bolter, and hammer hand. Still they aren't used.

I'm not saying there aren't a lot of overpriced units in various Space marine codicies. What I am saying is that often in the codicies is the upgrades are overpriced as well. If a person could get a fair points cost for the model/unit and the upgrades they would be taken. I feel a lot of the issues with space marines is they overpay for most everything and if it got fixed it would go a long way in fixing a lot of the problems with space marines codicies. I will say tank cracking stuff under these rules ideas are pretty darn expensive. Too expensive if you ask me. And I am inclined to agree with you on the cost of terminator armor. It feels to me like it should cost only 6 or 7 points. Just like storm bolters at most should be 2pts imo. 28- 30 points for a stock terminator seems about right to me. The closest units stat wise to a terminator are vanguard vets and honour guard. Both are a little over costed imo, but if we apply the gear changes to them to give them the same gear as a stock terminator it works out to about 28 - 30 ppm.

Adding rules to have up to 10 models might be a good idea. Maybe allow Spartan Assault tanks as dedicated transports for 10man units.