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2015/03/25 00:11:42
Subject: Orks vs Knights - Mathhammer - Tankbustas/MANz
Tankbustas and Meganobz are powerful in close combat against Imperial Knights. But how powerful?
A lot of people say that shooting is the way to kill IKs with Orks. However, based on the below, you would need 8 tankbustas surviving at initiative 1 to kill an Imperial Knight in one round of close combat. An Imperial Knight can kill on average less than 2 Tankbustas in a turn in close combat, which means that on average, you should be able to expect to kill an Imperial Knight if assaulting it with 10 tankbustas in one turn of combat.
.7937 Hull Points stripped per turn of combat on average at Init 1 by 1 Tankbusta
S8 + 2d6 AP1 vs AV13 = 26/36 = 72.22~% to Penetrate
S8 Meltabomb w/ Tank Hunters (reroll to Glance) = 1-(5/6) = 1/6
(1/6) * (5/6) = 13.8~%
13.8~% + 83.33~% = 97.22~% to Glance
S8 Meltabomb w/ Tank Hunters (reroll to Pen) = 1-(26/36) = .27~
(.27~) * (.722~) = 20%
20% + 72.22~% = 92.28% to Pen
Average Hull Points dealt in combat by 1 Tankbusta Meltabomb:
( 50% to hit ) * ( 97.22~% to Glance ) = .4861~
( 50% to hit ) * ( 92.28% to Pen ) * ( 1/3 chance to Explode ) * [(1+2+3)/3] = .3076
.7937 Hull Points stripped on average at Init 1 by Tankbusta
2.148~ Average Hull Points stripped per turn of combat at Initiative 1 by 1 MAN w/ Chainfist
2.98594~ Hull Points stripped per turn of combat at Initiative 1 by 1 MAN w/ Chainfist on the Assault
S8 + 2d6 AP2 vs AV13 = 30/36 = 83.33~% to Glance per hit
S8 + 2d6 AP2 vs AV13 = 26/36 = 72.22~% to Penetrate per hit
Average Hull Points dealt in combat by 1 MAN w/ Chainfist:
( 50% to hit ) * ( 83.33~% to Glance ) = .416~
( 50% to hit ) * ( 72.22% to Pen ) * ( 1/6 chance to Explode ) * [(1+2+3)/3] = .12
.416~ + .12 = .537 Hull Points per attack
.537 * 4 = 2.148~ Hull Points stripped per turn of combat at Initiative 1 by 1 MAN w/ Chainfist
S9 Chainfist (Furious Charge)
S9 + 2d6 AP2 vs AV13 = 33/36 = 91.6~% to Glance per hit
S9 + 2d6 AP2 vs AV13 = 30/36 = 83.33~% to Penetrate per hit
Average Hull Points dealt in combat by 1 MAN w/ Chainfist on the Charge:
( 50% to hit ) * ( 91.6~% to Glance ) = .4583~
( 50% to hit ) * ( 83.33~% to Pen ) * (1/6 chance to Explode) * [(1+2+3)/3] = .138~
.4583~ + .138~ = .59718~ Hull Points per attack
.59718~ * 5 = 2.98594~ Hull Points stripped per turn of combat at Initiative 1 by 1 MAN w/ Chainfist on the Assault
.583 Hull points damaged on average per turn of combat by MAN w/ Powerfist
1.22~ Hull points damaged on average per turn of combat by MAN w/ Powerfist in the Assault
Spoiler:
MANz vs AV13 superheavy walker
S8 Power Fist = .5*.33 chance to Glan = 16.6~% chance to Glance per hit
S8 Power Fist = .5*.16 chance to Pen = 8.3~% chance to Penetrate per hit
Average HP stripped per turn of combat per MAN w/ Powerfist=
.16~ * 3 = .5 Hull Points
( .083~ * 3 ) * .16 * [(1+2+3)/3] = .083 Hull Points
.5 + .083 = .583 Hull points damaged on average per turn of combat by MAN w/ Powerfist
S9 Power Fist = .5*.5 chance to Glan = 25% chance to Glance per hit
S9 Power Fist = .5*.33 chance to Pen = 16.6~% chance to Penetrate per hit
Average HP per turn of combat per MAN w/ Powerfist on charge =
.25 * 4 = 1 Hull Point
(.16~ * 4 ) * .16 * [(1+2+3)/3] = .22~ Hull Pointz
1 + .22~ = 1.22~ Hull points damaged on average per turn of combat by MAN w/ Powerfist in the Assault
Tankbustas are the most efficient in terms of hull points stripped per round of combat avg per point.
MANz with Killsaws on the assault are the second most efficient in hull points per point.
MANz with Killsaws are the third most efficient in hull points per point.
And here's your moment of zen.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2015/03/25 05:17:10
Subject: Re:Orks vs Knights - Mathhammer - Tankbustas/MANz
The problem with manz is that you need more of them to reliably kill a knight due to S: D chainsword hitting 1-st. It becomes even worse when manz fail Fear check. Manz missile is not realible in this way. But if the knight kills none or just 1 MAN or if you run bully boyz with 1-2 chainsaws, they have more chances of staying effective after stomps and explosion.
Tankbustas, on the other hand, will more reliably kill a knight cause more of them will be able to strike and ap1 helps getting this extra hp off, but stomps and an explosion will murderise them.
2015/03/26 17:29:42
Subject: Re:Orks vs Knights - Mathhammer - Tankbustas/MANz
Getting either unit there is a problem for any assault close combat attacks. And if the Busters don't kill it, stomp kills can wreck a unit easily. I'd never send MegaNobz to kill a Superheavy walker unless Grotsnik was with them, even then all that Int1 means they're going to lose something and don't forget about when it explodes! I Think it's lame that it'll explode even if it's glanced to death.
Shoot it, then assault with boys with a PB and PK Nob.
Fighting crime in a future time!
2015/03/27 16:43:15
Subject: Orks vs Knights - Mathhammer - Tankbustas/MANz
Pain boy and doc grotsnik won't help at all, the strD rule says to count it as str10 for instant death. You won't get your feel no pain rolls against it.
Wow. That is pretty impressive. I didn't check your math hammer but I think that an experienced Knights player would likely just shoot... fall back... shoot... fall back and then charge when it looked inevitable.
Plus, Was he getting 1s every time for his "Stomp"? I mean it's like at LEAST 1 dead mega per turn likely 3 with Stomps and StrD coming at you.
Impressive though. I've been resistent to tank bustas but everyone seems to love them now. I'll check them out.
Tankbustas and Meganobz are powerful in close combat against Imperial Knights. But how powerful? 
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
20000+ points