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hello
please share your stories about times you have been cheated against. if you feel like it

Sorry, what's a "B&P" game?

First time, games club in High School. Blood Angels player brought an extra elite squad (more points than we agreed on) and it was the marines with the jetpacks, I still had 100 orks in a 1000pt game. He rolled so many 1's and 2's for armour saves, it's karma for you.

Beer and Pretzels. (Casual game.)

Yes to both. When I first started playing, there were a couple of guys who were the worst cheats I've ever seen (and the reason I had such a butthurt hatred for Tyranids for a long time) that took their shenanigans to the extreme even in casual play.

In my first ever real tournament under 5th ed rules, (which I was still getting accustomed to at the time, after a break of a few years from the hobby) an opponent told me that a '4' on the die for Vehicle penetration was a 'weapon destroyed' result. This during a Death or Glory attack that would have stopped his Deffrolla from annihilating my army. 4 on the die, on an open-topped vehicle. Made with a multi-melta.

Lesson learned. (When something horrible happens, look at the rules. If your opponent gets butthurt about the length of time you're taking, ignore them.) Never again, lol. Never again.

We had one "that guy" who was commonly considered a cheater. He'd pick up dice, order them in his hand and sort of just drop them so they hardly bounced at all. He also measured everything beforehand (back when it was expressly forbidden) by pulling the tape measure out to 48'' or so in the movement phase - in essence he checked possible firing and charge ranges for every unit he was about to move.

But at least he didn't cheat at rules - he did remind opponents of stuff they forgot, unlike a certain other player. This guy just stood there watching you forget double AP dice for Ordnance etc, only waking up to ignored rules when it was beneficial to his army.

I remember playing a pick up at Lenton a while back in 4th edition. According to my opponent rhinos could only carry 5 marines (he explained this by putting a marine next to my rhino model, ignoring my argument of 'thats what the book says') He also orbital bombarded my army every turn despite playing Salamanders and not having 'orbital bombardment' on his list. When the guys Rhinos came close enough lo and behold, they had 10 marines in them, because he explained, they were salamanders.

He was confused when I just packed up and walked off at that point. From that point on I vowed never to participate in a pick up game again.

A few times during 6th.
First time was a 500 pt doubles tournament.
Rule was that 50% of each army had to start on the field, and nobody noticed the guard player that had two vendettas with two vet squads as his army never had a single model on the field turn 1. He would then outflank them despite the FAQ at the time saying they couldn't do that.
His partner was using some scratch built tervigons and was trying to argue things like being able to hang the model from buildings because it had hooked limbs and no base. He argued heavily about what constitutes 25% in cover.
It didn't help that he had two of the Tervigons and happened to roll Iron Arm for both, on rolls neither of us saw and he was insistent that he rolled fairly and we just wanted to ruin his good fortune.

In general those two were very unpleasant to play against.

The Nid player went against my partner and I in another double game where they took so long to set up and asked s many questions we ran out of time on turn 2. The downside is that we didn't know the game was going to be over and they were stalling the best they could. Half way through our 2nd turn, after movement, we found out we needed to try and claim as many objectives as possible while they had a full turn to grab what they needed knowing we had no way of countering them. I know it's stretching a bit on cheating, and you could argue intent in there. Knowing the one player there is no doubt they were intentionally stalling.

Last example was cheating due to negligence. Demon player managed to win in a game because he brought too many HQs. He managed to beat me on objectives after I shot down Belakor, Lord of Change, a third MC I can't remember, and most of his army. But in the end he won on objectives thanks to some extra heralds he couldn't have fielded.
His solution was that he would take the win and just fix his list for the next round.
I honestly don't hold much against that guy, but he constantly half reads his books and misunderstands so many points that he either has a reading disability or is intentionally doing it. I'm willing to assume it's the former.

Had a player use weighted dice once. A set of 6 that he would use for checks. 2 always rolled 1's and 4 always rolled 6's. Needless to say he did pretty well passing any leadership checks.

Finally got caught after rolling nothing but 2 after like 40 pinning checks. And got banned from the warhammer tables.

I personally got cheated against playing nids vs deathwing.

I deep striked some trygons into objectives.
Next turn he deep strikes his assault terminators, and assaults my trygons, slaughtering them
New at the time i figured i had gotten the rule wrong.

I then had ymgurl genestealers burst out of the nearby building in addition to using the trygons hole to bring out some regular genestealers. Then assaulted his army, and wiped it out because terminators are weak vs can openers

Then he says i cant deepstrike and assault after he did

Calls over the judge and explains that turn 1 he deep striked, turn two i deep striked, turn 3 he assaulted, and turn 4 i deep striked and assaulted.

Judge listened to him, and i got kicked out of the tournament.

It wasn't my game, I was observing it as a new time player, but an Imperial Guard player placed about 25% more men into the field then I expected even for Guard. Being a little suspicious I got a copy of the list and crunched some numbers while they begun the game, showing about 1/3 more points in the Army then agreed upon. He thought he had been cleaver about it, using cheaper Forgeworld artillery and the likes so people had a harder time figuring out that he had under-priced everything. The Heavy Weapon teams where the worse, for every Unit paid for there was two that had not been. When called out on it he claimed it was an error caused by the program he used to build the list, before stating he was only trying to squeeze a quick game in before an appointment he had to pack up and leave for.

Cause we all know one sits down for a 20 minute game of Warhammer 40k....

First game against the "Skyhammer " formation. New club, had never tried it out before and someone wanted to play two Skyhammers against me.

He says he's got grav guns on the devs, meltas on the assault marines. They are wysiwyg but the devs are actually heavy bolters with thingies stuck on to make them grav.

He drops down, asks what my armor save is.

5++ invuln on basically everything, no armor saves. I check for him. Sv -. Sorry, guess grav doesn't do anything. He says "these are heavy bolters, I can do that with the formation"

Sorry, he doesn't have the rules, fething GW right? Takes me five seconds to pull it up on the phone. Surprise, it's not on there. The guy is like "gosh, could've sworn it did that, huh."

Then he asks about my vehicles, and they're open topped. Lo and behold he produces a template and points it off an assault marine. An assault marine holding a melta gun.

I pack up, and he spends the rest of the time complaining to his buddies that I quit because I was "butthurt."

The first instance was the guy that introduced me to the game. He played guard, and taught us all the rules except for AP. I guess he really wanted his 5+ saves.

The second, was a Mea Culpa. Playing a tournament with 4th ed Tau, thought I was playing with 300 pts of Marker Drones, discover I had paid 30 for them in the third game. I forfeited and notified the judge. Doublecheck my math all the time, not sure what happened that time.

7th ed Scars vs Dark Angels, apparently their tacticals can see through hills and their librarians don't need LOS.

Most of the cheating I've sen has been accidental, but I did once have a tfg who was such a goddamn rules-lawyer and sore loser that you couldn't get any sort of advantage. Just abused the gak out of everything until the opponent ragequit from all his stupidity.

Accidental cheating is why I spend a lot of time looking up rules.

All in casual games:

Moving and trying fire heavy weapons.

Trying to sleight of hand models around if the opponent turned.

Made up various rules and then 'couldn't find the page'.

Saying ATSKNF is Fearless.

Bringing more than 300 points above agreed limit. (we usually play ~1850 points)

Weighted dice.

-

Did I mention this was one guy?

Pick up game against a IG player who asked if I could make up 1850 points? Sure, I can cobble enough ork boyz for 1850. He then dumps a knight and super heavy tank on the table alongside Pask and a bunch of Leman Russ tanks in formation.
Ever heard of Look out sir saves for Pask on other tanks? Conveniently Pask is in the open, able to shoot and dish out orders as he likes, and the "look out sir" tank is hidden in 4+ cover.
I thought it sounded fishy, but we were pushed for time, and I beat the snot out of him anyway.

 r_squared wrote:
Pick up game against a IG player who asked if I could make up 1850 points? Sure, I can cobble enough ork boyz for 1850. He then dumps a knight and super heavy tank on the table alongside Pask and a bunch of Leman Russ tanks in formation.
Ever heard of Look out sir saves for Pask on other tanks? Conveniently Pask is in the open, able to shoot and dish out orders as he likes, and the "look out sir" tank is hidden in 4+ cover.
I thought it sounded fishy, but we were pushed for time, and I beat the snot out of him anyway.

I swear I've heard of this before. But Pask cannot be saved by LOS.

Spetulhu wrote:

But at least he didn't cheat at rules - he did remind opponents of stuff they forgot, unlike a certain other player. This guy just stood there watching you forget double AP dice for Ordnance etc, only waking up to ignored rules when it was beneficial to his army.

That's interesting, I usually only play with a few opponents regularly and as we are well versed in the rules we maintain that if the other player forgets about one of his units or to shoot/ assault with one of them correctly, its down to them being a poor tactician/forgetful. If they say "okay you're turn" and then say "oh no I forgot to assault with my striking scorpions" we all accept its their fault and they cannot change it. I've been on both ends of the situation and I view it as punishing but fair and certainly not what I would define as "cheating" as you are not bending the rules.

My group's take on baksies is 1-for-1, and that you can't be doing it constantly. So if one player forgets a thing, and going back to do it again would not invalidate something already done / be too much of an advantage, then they can do it, on the condition that the other player gets a free pass to do a similar thing in the future. If, however, you start abusing it/doing it constantly, then you lose the right.

It patches over our errors in casual games when we've not played in a while.

I forgive mistakes quite a lot since I'm pretty bad with my mental arithmetic, but I can't stand rules bending. Fair do's again if theirs been a change in editions etc. But one bloke I played trashed my guard with his with FW weapon platforms which could move, this ruined the match for us and was in lawful. Other than that a bloke I used to play in 5th ed necrons had about 6-7 wrathes in a unit. Again I later found that was unlawful, but since he had played the game longer and I called him out on not having a codex he just could "I played longer" pretty rubbish.

I've never had a really bad experience, thankfully. I had one "friend" that would constantly make stuff up about specials his army had. These were 3+ invul saves and other crazy items that simply didn't exist or didn't do what he said they did - back in 3rd edition. Maybe he was precognicient, since most everything that he said now actually exists .

I've also faced off against someone once in a partner's game. This guy rolled nothing but 4+'s, always used the same dice, and never allowed anyone else to use his dice because they were "special lucky dice". Outside someone with severe OCD and/or germaphobia, I cannot understand why tournaments don't have a rule where you must allow an opponent to roll your dice if they request it. It makes sure that no one gains an improper advantage by using weighted dice (whether or not the player is aware that the dice are weighted).

 Yarium wrote:
I've also faced off against someone once in a partner's game. This guy rolled nothing but 4+'s, always used the same dice, and never allowed anyone else to use his dice because they were "special lucky dice". Outside someone with severe OCD and/or germaphobia, I cannot understand why tournaments don't have a rule where you must allow an opponent to roll your dice if they request it. It makes sure that no one gains an improper advantage by using weighted dice (whether or not the player is aware that the dice are weighted).

I have a gaming buddy who always accuses me of using weighted dice, and you know what makes him laugh? I offer to let him use them. A common dice pool is an excellent idea though.

 Ustis wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
This guy just stood there watching you forget double AP dice for Ordnance etc, only waking up to ignored rules when it was beneficial to his army.

That's interesting, I usually only play with a few opponents regularly and as we are well versed in the rules we maintain that if the other player forgets about one of his units or to shoot/ assault with one of them correctly, its down to them being a poor tactician/forgetful. I've been on both ends of the situation and I view it as punishing but fair and certainly not what I would define as "cheating" as you are not bending the rules.

Shooting, charging, even moving is optional. Doing it right isn't, and that's what I was talking about. You have no obligation to remind your opponent of taking Linebreaker, for example, but when he forgets to add in AP1 on that armor penetration roll and you don't speak up you're certainly being naughty.

 Ustis wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:

But at least he didn't cheat at rules - he did remind opponents of stuff they forgot, unlike a certain other player. This guy just stood there watching you forget double AP dice for Ordnance etc, only waking up to ignored rules when it was beneficial to his army.

That's interesting, I usually only play with a few opponents regularly and as we are well versed in the rules we maintain that if the other player forgets about one of his units or to shoot/ assault with one of them correctly, its down to them being a poor tactician/forgetful. If they say "okay you're turn" and then say "oh no I forgot to assault with my striking scorpions" we all accept its their fault and they cannot change it. I've been on both ends of the situation and I view it as punishing but fair and certainly not what I would define as "cheating" as you are not bending the rules.

It's like the old argument of "do you really want to win the game solely because your opponent missed a charge by a quarter of an inch?" I prefer to win because I was the better general, not because I was the better gamer.

And after having played through six editions of this game, sometimes the rules between editions blur together, so our group does the best we can to make sure we get everything right, beneficial to us or not.

Anyway, I can't remember if I ever played any intentional cheaters. There are always the occasional "whoopsies" where someone didn't add their points right or got a rule wrong.

I accidentally cheated just this weekend because I read the rules for Master-Crafted wrong. For some reason I thought it let you re-roll all misses.

I guess it evened out though be cause I also shorted myself an attack every assault phase with the same unit.

Back in 5th me and a buddy did a 2X1000 pts Team Tournament.

1000points of my World eaters and 1000pts of his thousand sons.

On the 3 game we played we won 2 and lost 1 and ended something like 8th place on 24, wich is not bad for 2 fluffy lists.

The game we lost was versius a Deathguard+Necrons lists.

The Deathguard had the classics, nothing to write home about, even though he mangaed to succeed a huge amount of FnP rolls, and we checked his dices where normal.

The necron had something like 2 Monolith, 2 Lords and 4 warrior squads.

While my TS buddy goes for the DG guy i go for the Necron, pretty onfident in my killing power in CC Vs his.

I killed Necrons in droves, i killed soo much of it that the guy should have packed his stuff by turn 3, but for some reason he kept bringing them back and back and back.

At one moment i had my doubts because of some event, Kharn and zerkers had annihilated a squad with one of the Lord with orb in it, the squad failed their LD test and ran, i over runned them, thus destroying the squad purely and simply.

But for some reason he left the Lord and the warriors on the table, while i told him he could pack them, he tells me that because of the orb he can still save them.

For a recap in 4th and 5th the Necrons We'll be back rule was that they could rise again on a roll excepte if they where hit by attacks/shots with AP 1-2 or that ignored saves and that made ID's, the Orbs allowed you to make the rolls against those kind of wounds.

So it goes like this; the guy makes his rolls, despite the lord been destroyed in a sweeping advance, he manage to make the rolls for the whole squad bare 2, for some reason that i can't remember he makes those models join the other squad, resulting in a squad of 20 Warriors that in the next turn all rapid fire at my kharn+Zerkers...

We argue over this of course and call the judge, since Necron codexat the time was obsolete and you had a gakload of faqs for it, the guys of course argue that he can do that because of the new faqs, we asks him if he have them, and he shows use some PDF files he have on his PSP console, with the letters soo small that you can barely read it, now the Judge was i think someone he knew and he had a few drinks in, so he called what he did has legit and we lost the game...

All the other buds of my gaming group who where there saw the whole thing and agreed with us, even the Crons players, that the guy was wrong and it should not go like this, but since the Judge had given his judgement, there was nothing we could do about it...

The silverlinning of things is that there was a Lottery wich people brought tickets for 5$ a ticket and the prizes where GW kits and there was a Shadowblade tank in it, i've brought 4 tickets to increases my chances, the necrons guy who also played Guards had bought 8 tickets.

I did get home with the tank!, he was disgusted, i think there was some karma involved in this.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

It's like the old argument of "do you really want to win the game solely because your opponent missed a charge by a quarter of an inch?" I prefer to win because I was the better general, not because I was the better gamer.

A good general capitalizes of the strengths/abilities of his units and protects against their vulnerabilities/weaknesses in a resourceful manner (for example making full use of all the rules his units are entitled to and not forgetting them). I was more referring to instances such as my opponent voicing clearly his intention during my turn to move his hive tyrant within synapse range of his hormagaunt squad upon his next movement phase, then forgetting completely and not being allowed to backpedal and reposition his move after he has already ventured into his shooting phase.

Believe me, if a unit is half an inch out, I almost always give the opponent the opponent the benefit of the doubt and allow the charge to happen. Like you, my group of players also form an opinion on who really won regardless of what was decided by the games rules. If one player wins in a maelstrom of war game by a small margin of points but had an army of jetbikes against a much slower army and spent the last two turns fleeing, hiding and making a ridiculous amount of jink saves almost getting tabled, we would indeed concur the opponent was the true victor.

Yep.

There's a core group of players at my FLGS excel at cheating and we try to outdo each other with the extravagance of our rule breaking.

To be clear, this is not done in any game where someone cares about the outcome. It's just that a lot of players have reached the point where they are tired of standard games and will go to lengths to keep things interesting.

The simplest form of cheat we have is the kill pile. Remove your opponent's models from the board and place them in his kill pile without being noticed.

The best cheat we have is the rules query. Specify a rule that does not really exist, but sounds like it could, to your advantage. For instance, claim autocannons have Gets Hot and cause a penetrating hit on a failed roll, or Spawn have 3+ invulnerable saves. If someone falls for it, keep spouting out other fake rules until they do notice.

i had someone try to bribe me with donuts to let me take back a move. he was also proxying a donut for a tomb spider. then after i beats him he goes. "well you only one because you dont like donuts"... he was... wierd...

Eh. Donut Guy is nicer than some guys I've played. When you have to go through a 2 hour argument just to get a cover save... I just...