Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So i'm looking to expand my Raven Guard army and i would quite like to get some vanguard vets, my question is what gear to equip them with? I'm aware they can get discounted melee weapons but i'm unsure what is best, also should i invest in some grav/plasma pistols for them? What do you guys think?

Meltabombs and a few storm shields. Nothing else.

I would go Storm Shields on 2-3, 2x Lightning Claws on the rest.

Lightning claws are a waste, imo.

Martel732 wrote:
Lightning claws are a waste, imo.

Agreed. I prefer Relic Blades. I must admit, however, that I haven't done the Mathhammer on which wounds easier.

in general, 3+ to wound re-rolling (against T3) is better than a 2+ (still T3).

don't know the strength of the relic blade (is it +1S, or +2S, cant remember).

Can all VVs take relic blades?

 gummyofallbears wrote:
in general, 3+ to wound re-rolling (against T3) is better than a 2+ (still T3).

don't know the strength of the relic blade (is it +1S, or +2S, cant remember).

Can all VVs take relic blades?

It's +2 STR. I was looking more at T4, due to the large amount of MEQ armies. But all of that is moot, because it appears only the sergeant can take a relic blade.

 asorel wrote:

 gummyofallbears wrote:
in general, 3+ to wound re-rolling (against T3) is better than a 2+ (still T3).

don't know the strength of the relic blade (is it +1S, or +2S, cant remember).

Can all VVs take relic blades?

It's +2 STR. I was looking more at T4, due to the large amount of MEQ armies. But all of that is moot, because it appears only the sergeant can take a relic blade.

A Sergeant with a Relic Blade and a Storm Shield isn't too terrible of an idea. They aren't missing out any attacks.

ah, thanks for clearing it up.

I don't play space marines anymore, and when I did, I almost never took relic blades.

what about,

sgt w/ relic blade and storm shield and a few buried storm shields.

I'd keep them cheap as possible. Have a sergeant with a relic blade, and storm shield as has been suggested. Mix in another storm shield and bolt pistol (or chain sword) on 2 or 3 of them if you like, and arm another 2 to 3 with power weapons and give them axes for the AP:2 swings at I:1.

The rest I would give chain swords and bolt pistols. I also agree with giving the sergeant melta bombs as well.

That's my suggestion. Hope it helps.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Thanks for all the advice guys, im gonna do as you have suggested and have sgt w/ relic blade, storm shield (melta bombs?) and throw in a few storm shields on the other dudes. My only question is does the storm shield mean i cant get the extra attack for having two single handed weapons?

 Yentzer wrote:
Thanks for all the advice guys, im gonna do as you have suggested and have sgt w/ relic blade, storm shield (melta bombs?) and throw in a few storm shields on the other dudes. My only question is does the storm shield mean i cant get the extra attack for having two single handed weapons?

Yes it does, which is why putting one on the Relic Blade carrying Sergeant isn't so bad because he is already missing out on that extra attack. The Storm Shields just make the squad more survivable.

Martel732 wrote:
Lightning claws are a waste, imo.

Execuse me, but what?

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I'd keep them cheap as possible. Have a sergeant with a relic blade, and storm shield as has been suggested. Mix in another storm shield and bolt pistol (or chain sword) on 2 or 3 of them if you like, and arm another 2 to 3 with power weapons and give them axes for the AP:2 swings at I:1.

The rest I would give chain swords and bolt pistols. I also agree with giving the sergeant melta bombs as well.

That's my suggestion. Hope it helps.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Allow me to object and ask: ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS? The Vanguard Veterans are the first and the best guys to kit with claws and/or power weapons, since they're dirt cheap! There's no base for the argument that giving them power weapons each would make them too expensive. A 10 man squad of VV's with power mauls will DROWN desired targets into wounds. If you want to be extra nasty, take power axes for all, and you can challenge terminator blobs. If the Veteran gang goes full Wolverine mode, I doubt that seeing that blob wouldn't give a nerving twitch to an opponent - gunline-camper or not.

Sure, you can keep 'em cheap and simple by keeping their chainswords intact, but if you're going to face other muhreen players or anything with a decent armour save, you're screwed.

Melta bombs are a good option for some models in the group, to make sure that if you need to take something heavy down, however I wouldn't saturate the whole unit with them, since you don't need so many of them to get stuff done. I'd drop the idea about replacing their bolt pistols, since grav/plasma pistols are still WAY too expensive to invest per model. Bolt pistol + power weapon combo is decent enough to cause havoc in most of the situations where you want the Veterans to hang out.

are the power weapons the VVs not 10 points?

because thats a lot of points to pay on a T4 3+ model (its not bad save or toughness, its just, not hard to kill).

if they were cheaper, I honestly regret selling my space marines as I loved my VVs.

damn

 Tigramans wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Lightning claws are a waste, imo.

Execuse me, but what?

The problem with paired Lightning claws on basic 3+ save bodies is that they're just way too efficient at what they do... Even with only 6-7 dudes, odds are that especially in today's MSU heavy environment, you'll outright wipe out whatever you're facing, leaving you open to eating a face full of hurt in your opponent's Shooting phase.
On the other hand, 6-7 dudes isn't enough to put much of a dent into the few remaining horde armies out there. Your unit will be tarpitted into extinction and slowly whittled down, likely wasting their points value in the process.

While the new Vanilla Marines get Lightning claws for a stupidly cheap price, they really need an invuln save to go along with it. Hence why Warptalons are better in every regard vs. paired L.claw Vanguards...
Talons may be more expensive point for point, but they come stock with a 5++, which can easily be boosted to even a godly 2++ with the right allied & Psychic supports!

If you're willing to have one less attack, you could have Lightning Claw + Storm Shield.

Recently I have been running my Power Armored Wolf Guard real light in the Wargear.
WGPL with Storm Shield and Frost Blade. The rest I have just left them with Bolt Pistol and Chain Sword. The rest of the combination is a Stormwolf on a Landing Pad with Ready for Take Off for a 2nd Turn Assault. It has been working real well for me.

I think the same combo could work with Vanguard Vets/Stormraven/Landing Pad and you could throw in a Dred.

Power weapons are a waste in general in my experience.

Melta bombs are cheaper and better against the power mcs in the game. And iks are sad pandas.

 Tigramans wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Lightning claws are a waste, imo.

Execuse me, but what?

 Red__Thirst wrote:
I'd keep them cheap as possible. Have a sergeant with a relic blade, and storm shield as has been suggested. Mix in another storm shield and bolt pistol (or chain sword) on 2 or 3 of them if you like, and arm another 2 to 3 with power weapons and give them axes for the AP:2 swings at I:1.

The rest I would give chain swords and bolt pistols. I also agree with giving the sergeant melta bombs as well.

That's my suggestion. Hope it helps.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Allow me to object and ask: ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS? The Vanguard Veterans are the first and the best guys to kit with claws and/or power weapons, since they're dirt cheap! There's no base for the argument that giving them power weapons each would make them too expensive. A 10 man squad of VV's with power mauls will DROWN desired targets into wounds. If you want to be extra nasty, take power axes for all, and you can challenge terminator blobs. If the Veteran gang goes full Wolverine mode, I doubt that seeing that blob wouldn't give a nerving twitch to an opponent - gunline-camper or not.

Sure, you can keep 'em cheap and simple by keeping their chainswords intact, but if you're going to face other muhreen players or anything with a decent armour save, you're screwed.

Melta bombs are a good option for some models in the group, to make sure that if you need to take something heavy down, however I wouldn't saturate the whole unit with them, since you don't need so many of them to get stuff done. I'd drop the idea about replacing their bolt pistols, since grav/plasma pistols are still WAY too expensive to invest per model. Bolt pistol + power weapon combo is decent enough to cause havoc in most of the situations where you want the Veterans to hang out.

If all you really want is power weapons, Honor Guard are even better. You get power weapons, a 2+ save, and access to the chapter banner for 25 ppm. The biggest downside is the lack of jump packs, but there are quite a few named HQs that can't take them.

Stick a couple of hidden power axes in the squad and call it good. Even with the discount on weapons, Vanguards are still a questionable buy.

The main reason why i wanted vanguard vets wasn't to be super competitive but to be more fluffy with my ravenguard theme, but on the other hand i don't want them to completely suck (which is why i asked in the first place). So from the advice i have i think my squad is gonna look something along the lines of this:

sgt w/ relic blade, storm shield, melta bombs
2x vets w/ storm shields and bolt pistols
2x vets w/ power weapons

however maybe just one of the vets to have a power weapon as i don't want to make this unit even more expensive then it already is?

and if i increase the unit size to 6+ i will throw in some more LCs, PWs and SS

No point having someone with a Storm Shield and Bolt Pistol, they're not getting an extra attack. Might as well give them a Fist/Claw, might price it up a bit but you weren't go super-competitive and depending on what you face it could pay off.

Because the Chainsword seems highly ineffective and with Storm Shields they'll probably be able to stick around long enough to make good use of that Fist/Claw.

 asorel wrote:


If all you really want is power weapons, Honor Guard are even better. You get power weapons, a 2+ save, and access to the chapter banner for 25 ppm. The biggest downside is the lack of jump packs, but there are quite a few named HQs that can't take them.

Yeah, but in Honour Guard, there's a mandatory champion included, should you not wish it, and the cost per model is much higher.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
are the power weapons the VVs not 10 points?

because thats a lot of points to pay on a T4 3+ model (its not bad save or toughness, its just, not hard to kill).

if they were cheaper, I honestly regret selling my space marines as I loved my VVs.

damn

The power weapons and claws are 5 points per model (a pair of claws is thus 10 points).

Well for 5pts more than your bog standard terminator squad you can get 2 vets with dual lightning claws, 2 vets with storm shield and power axe and a vet sarge with a relic blade and melta bomb all with jump packs. That actually seems pretty good to me.

 Tigramans wrote:
The power weapons and claws are 5 points per model (a pair of claws is thus 10 points).

Holy crap, you're right!
Well, then he should definitely pop a Claw on each of those Storm Shield dudes, 5 points a pop is a steal!

P.S. Can they actually HAVE a pair of Lightning Claws? Sounds like they're only allowed one.

EDIT: Never mind, that would mean they couldn't have a Storm Shield and another fancy weapon.

Well for 5pts more than your bog standard terminator squad you can get 2 vets with dual lightning claws, 2 vets with storm shield and power axe and a vet sarge with a relic blade and melta bomb all with jump packs. That actually seems pretty good to me.

i have to agree with you there this is most likely going to be the set up i use! thanks for all your input.

Yeah, does seem pretty solid for the most part, will probably work out just fine.
Only thing I could see is that you could swap the Power Axes for Power Fists, you'd go from S5 to S8 with no loss of attacks!
Buuuuut that would cost 20 points on its own, so that might not be worth it.

i agree with you there because i was thinking about maybe using thunderhammers (not sure if they can actually use them tho, dont have codex with me atm) instead of the power axes

You can, I checked. They're 20 points though, 5 more than Power Fists. Are you willing to pay that just for Concussive?

wow.

omg, seriously, I really regret that.

I know what I am buying next for my BA.

such a nice kit.

*cries internally*