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From the pass few weeks, i played versus a few eldars players and i did very well... Here is what i think :

1-Eldars have an awesome codex, pretty much the best out there

2-The codex isnt op all around.... Some units are great but some are simply ok

3-In FRIENDLY games, there is always a way to make it fun and fair

4-In my opinion, there are 3 important points that will change the game: Your knowledge of the opponent's army, your ability to do maths and the codex

5-Even in competitve games, eldars arent immortals. ( TRUST me, my 5 flyrants list can easily do the job, as well as your competitve list )

6-In tournements, eldars arent winning all the events...


To conclude, i think pretty much every codices have a shot vs eldars if you know your opponent's army as well as your own army.

Instead of hating so much that codex, why don't we complain more about superheavies which destroy pretty much every hordes armies and the concept of casual games? These monsters are the reason why so many units in every codices did become useless....

Happy wargaming !

You mean they aren't winning tournaments where they houserule everything to make the codex look even close to reasonable?
Color me shocked.

The problem with Eldar is that they require a heinous amount of houseruleing to make them even close to balanced. Which is why they are losing in tournaments - TO's are houseruleing Eldar to make them more balanced whilst at the same time every player and his mother knows that they are going to be bringing Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade and they tailor their lists to suit.
When the tournament comes around the Eldar players are denied their crutches and are unable to compete on a balanced scale against their opponents as their opponents have one thing that the Eldar players do not: The ability to think.
Ergo the Eldar players suffer in any environment whereby they are forced to play in a fair field.

For me it's Dman syndrome: it doesn't bother me that Eldar have the current OP codex, everyone should get their turn, it bothers me that so many of the Eldar players want to insist it's them as players and the dex is balanced. And they expect us to keep a straight face and are offended when we don't.

My opponent shouldn't have to gimp himself for us to have a good game.

Oh, and it's not SHV that are creating problems, they're pretty good balance wise, it's the GC and Eldar SHV that break the game... and stupid toe in cover/invisibility mechanics.

 master of ordinance wrote:
The problem with Eldar is that they require a heinous amount of houseruleing to make them even close to balanced. Which is why they are losing in tournaments - TO's are houseruleing Eldar to make them more balanced whilst at the same time every player and his mother knows that they are going to be bringing Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade and they tailor their lists to suit.
When the tournament comes around the Eldar players are denied their crutches and are unable to compete on a balanced scale against their opponents as their opponents have one thing that the Eldar players do not: The ability to think.
Ergo the Eldar players suffer in any environment whereby they are forced to play in a fair field.

Because only stupid cave man play brainless Eldar army... I would say the smart player is the one who picks the units that give him the best chance to win. It's nice that you feel intellectually superior to people just because of their army choice though.

Eldar don't win tournies because TO rulings knocked them down heavily.

The only issue I have (and this applies to current power creep dex's) is alot of players seem to think they are better than most when fighting against an older book.
I see this every time a new book kicks the cheese up a notch, so its not just Eldar.
They just happen to be the current big cheese.

Give it a month and Tau will more than likely take over and Eldar players will scream OP.


This happens constantly.
Yes Eldar are strong, but alot of new books are.
If GW updated them on a regular basis no army would suffer as badly as they do currently.

Alex0911,
The hate against any of the top-tier Factions is pretty normal within the greater Warhammer 40k community, it isn't isolated to just one Codex.
The real problem is the quality of players using these top-tier Factions can often be questionable, not the Factions themselves.

Let us take your point 2 for example, you mention that some of the Units within the Codex are good and some are just okay. Without arguing over what Units are what, or some other distraction like that, consider how you would feel if your Elder Opponent decided to never bring anything bar those good units to the tabletop. The player never even bothered to purchase anything below a certain 'power value' anyway, so it is not like he can switch Lists, leaving you with the choice of not playing at all or forcing yourself through a lop-sided battle just to get a game in that day. That player see's nothing wrong with his List if questioned about it, actually taking it as an insult that you want to ruin his fun and control what his army is to be, and proceeds to use it in every pick up game.

That is where I believe the frustration forms, not because of the Faction but the people who abuse it.

 Toofast wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
The problem with Eldar is that they require a heinous amount of houseruleing to make them even close to balanced. Which is why they are losing in tournaments - TO's are houseruleing Eldar to make them more balanced whilst at the same time every player and his mother knows that they are going to be bringing Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade and they tailor their lists to suit.
When the tournament comes around the Eldar players are denied their crutches and are unable to compete on a balanced scale against their opponents as their opponents have one thing that the Eldar players do not: The ability to think.
Ergo the Eldar players suffer in any environment whereby they are forced to play in a fair field.

Because only stupid cave man play brainless Eldar army... I would say the smart player is the one who picks the units that give him the best chance to win. It's nice that you feel intellectually superior to people just because of their army choice though.

Not really, but the problem is that Eldar are a no brainer army. You can literally pick almost anything out of the book and win against most armies. I know my clubs local Eldar player - and he is a great guy. He goes more for a fluffy army than a power one and has all kinds of amazing conversions in it. He also avoids the meta Scatspam and Wraithbrigade.

A smart player picks good units but when everything in your book is good or better there is no real thinking needed.

Another week, another Eldar thread.....

Just because Eldar don't take the most skill to play doesn't mean
"Eldar players do not [have] the ability to think."

 Ratius wrote:
Another week, another Eldar thread.....

Indeed, I shelved my Eldar after winning two tourneys in the 6th ed. I'd bring them eventually in an apoc game, but not in regular games.

Here's the problem OP: many armies cannot bring a tournament-level list that can stand a ghost of a chance against an tournament-level Eldar list. For some armies, their best builds struggle against even the average friendly Eldar list, especially if the Eldar player knows their army well. And while I would argue that this is a matter of certain armies needing better codexes, it still means that for many players Eldar are not a fun faction to play against.

On a side note, I don't think superheavies themselves are a problem in the game. An Imperial Knight is balanced points-wise for what it can bring to the table and how durable it its. The problem is that certain superheavies can be spammed *coughImperialKnightscough* or are hideously undercosted for their power level *coughWraithknightcough*.

master of ordinance wrote:The problem with Eldar is that they require a heinous amount of houseruleing to make them even close to balanced. Which is why they are losing in tournaments - TO's are houseruleing Eldar to make them more balanced whilst at the same time every player and his mother knows that they are going to be bringing Scatbike spam and Wraithbrigade and they tailor their lists to suit.
When the tournament comes around the Eldar players are denied their crutches and are unable to compete on a balanced scale against their opponents as their opponents have one thing that the Eldar players do not: The ability to think.
Ergo the Eldar players suffer in any environment whereby they are forced to play in a fair field.

Exactly. Everyone knows what the standard tournament Eldar list looks like, and many competitive players have played against it, so in turn people tweak and tailor their lists to beat the stereotypical Eldar army. Then when Eldar get wrecked at tournaments certain people come on and post that Eldar can be beaten and are balanced against these tournament-grade cheesy/OP and list-tailored armies. The fact that the tournament Eldar list plays in a very predictable way only helps people play and tailor against Eldar.

Lobukia wrote:For me it's Dman syndrome: it doesn't bother me that Eldar have the current OP codex, everyone should get their turn, it bothers me that so many of the Eldar players want to insist it's them as players and the dex is balanced. And they expect us to keep a straight face and are offended when we don't.

Dman137 gives Eldar players everywhere a bad name. But he is symptomatic of a larger problem: Eldar are perceived as the "TFG" faction. Dman137 isn't alone in his ideas; there are probably plenty more Eldar players out there who will defend Scatbikers, D-weapons, and the Wraithknight as perfectly balanced and just parrot the old "L2P" canard at anyone who disagrees. Inb4 Dman137 himself shows up in this thread to get it locked.

I don't deny that Eldar have OP units in the form of Scartbikers, Wraithknights, and anything that packs a D-weapon. But I feel that the rest of the codex is much more balanced against other 7th edition armies.

Jackal wrote:Eldar don't win tournies because TO rulings knocked them down heavily.

The only issue I have (and this applies to current power creep dex's) is alot of players seem to think they are better than most when fighting against an older book.
I see this every time a new book kicks the cheese up a notch, so its not just Eldar.
They just happen to be the current big cheese.

Give it a month and Tau will more than likely take over and Eldar players will scream OP.


This happens constantly.
Yes Eldar are strong, but alot of new books are.
If GW updated them on a regular basis no army would suffer as badly as they do currently.

Oh believe me, I'm not looking forward to the Tau release on this forum. Even if Tau are nerfed, people will still cry that Tau are OP in a half-dozen threads. Though it'll at least give me and others a chance to give some certain posters on this forum their long-overdue comeuppance.

I'd say a lot of it is a bandwagoning problem. Eldar are the current most powerful individual faction, so lots of people flock to Eldar so that they can win games easier by relying on a few egregiously overpowered units as a crutch. The only good news is that they'll go away whenever the latest hot codex comes out. With any luck, Tau will draw some of these players away.

alex0911 wrote:
From the pass few weeks, i played versus a few eldars players and i did very well... Here is what i think :

1-Eldars have an awesome codex, pretty much the best out there

2-The codex isnt op all around.... Some units are great but some are simply ok

3-In FRIENDLY games, there is always a way to make it fun and fair

4-In my opinion, there are 3 important points that will change the game: Your knowledge of the opponent's army, your ability to do maths and the codex

5-Even in competitve games, eldars arent immortals. ( TRUST me, my 5 flyrants list can easily do the job, as well as your competitve list )

6-In tournements, eldars arent winning all the events...


To conclude, i think pretty much every codices have a shot vs eldars if you know your opponent's army as well as your own army.

Instead of hating so much that codex, why don't we complain more about superheavies which destroy pretty much every hordes armies and the concept of casual games? These monsters are the reason why so many units in every codices did become useless....

Happy wargaming !

People do complain about Superheavies and GC's. However, Eldar are part of that problem with one of the most absurdly undercosted GC units in the game. LIkewise, the idea that "pretty much every codices have a shot vs eldars if you know your opponent's army as well as your own army" only holds true if the Eldar player is cooperating and not bringing and ultra top tier list themselves and you've got enough models to tailor just about anything you need yourself. Even in a casual setting, Eldar can be extremely difficult to defeat for many armies.

And I say this as someone who owns probably 4500-5000pts of Eldar.

I love all my hate groupies lol

Dman, this guy beat you to it

I find it funny people will complain about Eldar but it's ok for Space Marines. You telling me a Space Marine that costs 14 points is equal to a Genestealer or Chaos Space Marine?

Eldar are not the problem. The problem with 40K is points are not costed properly for anything. So if a Space Marine can't be costed properly compared to as mentioned how can anything else be costed properly?

TL;DR

Eldar are not the problem, nothing is costed properly in 40K.

Davor wrote:
I find it funny people will complain about Eldar but it's ok for Space Marines. You telling me a Space Marine that costs 14 points is equal to a Genestealer or Chaos Space Marine?

Eldar are not the problem. The problem with 40K is points are not costed properly for anything. So if a Space Marine can't be costed properly compared to as mentioned how can anything else be costed properly?

TL;DR

Eldar are not the problem, nothing is costed properly in 40K.

CSM are 13ppm aren't they? Also I haven't ever heard anyone( aside from maybe master of ordinance) complain about how op tactical Marines are, because they aren't. Free DTs is probably op, and skyhammer definitely is, but not tactical Marines .

 Lobukia wrote:
For me it's Dman syndrome: it doesn't bother me that Eldar have the current OP codex, everyone should get their turn, it bothers me that so many of the Eldar players want to insist it's them as players and the dex is balanced. And they expect us to keep a straight face and are offended when we don't.

I cant agree more!

 Filch wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
For me it's Dman syndrome: it doesn't bother me that Eldar have the current OP codex, everyone should get their turn, it bothers me that so many of the Eldar players want to insist it's them as players and the dex is balanced. And they expect us to keep a straight face and are offended when we don't.

I cant agree more!

I agree as well, (especially as a former chaos player) but with the added note that I don't think any codex should 'get their turn.' I want to goal to be no top dog or under dog, but as equal as possible.

Why did they make stuff like IG and necron or eldar within the same year. if GW plans to is to make no top dogs. And in the case of eldar why does GW give them books that are clearly OP.

Makumba wrote:
Why did they make stuff like IG and necron or eldar within the same year. if GW plans to is to make no top dogs. And in the case of eldar why does GW give them books that are clearly OP.

Phil Kelly loves his Space Elves and can't stomach the thought of them losing to some puny ordinary humans in cardboard armor.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Why did they make stuff like IG and necron or eldar within the same year. if GW plans to is to make no top dogs. And in the case of eldar why does GW give them books that are clearly OP.

Phil Kelly loves his Space Elves and can't stomach the thought of them losing to some puny ordinary humans in cardboard armor.

It's official: Phil Kelly is the new Matt Ward!

I don't want to be too hard on the guy though. I'm willing to bet corporate had plenty of hand in mandating certain things about the rules in order to sell more models.

Well, I don't hate Eldar. I'm even thinking on using the psychic formation to boost my Tau power. The problem relies on the codex having too much power.

D weapons on a 32p model?? 270p for 40 S6 shots? A GC for less than 300p? NOONE ELSE can do that. And that's the problem.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Why did they make stuff like IG and necron or eldar within the same year. if GW plans to is to make no top dogs. And in the case of eldar why does GW give them books that are clearly OP.

Phil Kelly loves his Space Elves and can't stomach the thought of them losing to some puny ordinary humans in cardboard armor.

It's official: Phil Kelly is the new Matt Ward!

I don't want to be too hard on the guy though. I'm willing to bet corporate had plenty of hand in mandating certain things about the rules in order to sell more models.

Phil Kelly has always been crap. I just don't understand why it is only realized now...

I cant say I hate Eldar. I hate many of the rules in 7th edition. Its just unfortunate that the Eldar codex seems to go overboard on spaming/using the rules that I hate.

I hate their culture and general stupidity for such an "advanced" race they seem to be remarkably inept at daily life tasks like talking, sharing, and diplomacy.

Remind me off the Voss.

http://hawtpantsrepublic.com/2013/01/30/i-hate-the-voss/

Of all the races they could easily start some sort of huge gigantic alliance being on good terms with a lot of factions, but no. They would rather sacrifice the ability to send allies (IoM and Tau) at targets and act as a meat shield for them to save 1 little eldar citizen.

They are illogical and it's no wonder their species is dying off. Good riddance.

Not to mention the Dark Eldar are honest donkey-caves. Eldar pretend they aren't then jab the knife in your back. At least I know what a DE is all about and how to deal with them (never or expect a betrayal at every second). The Eldar pet the dog and then kick it in one day.

Everyone hates eldar, even the eldar.

The only people who dont hate eldar are eldar players and people with space elf fetishes.

I play Dark Eldar but not Eldar. DE are awful beings but like I said. Honest. Also I really wanted to play the bad guys as a counter point to me favourites the Tau who are the good guys.