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Because my next project is the betrayal of Calth-Thingy box game (if you can't find out what legion it'll be, well, you an Idiot )

HELP PLZ!

I want every drop of power from my guys, the BEST possible combinations, so my list is up to you!

I want a list made, using the following materials.

BaC box set

Deimos Patter Rhino

ANY other forge world model (excluding Titans. It still has to be HH)

I also want it Ravenguardish. Lighting Claws whenever possible.

Thanks, Ember








If anyone understood that, well, you're not an idiot

Six exclamation marks, a sure sign of a diseased mind.

11 in total. Now help meh.

Well, you're first challenge will be how you want to fill your cumpulsory troops choices.

With the BaC box, you'll get 30 PA dudes and 5 TA dudes. For the 2 cumpulsory troop choices, you're options are:

-Tac Marines (10 man minimum)
-Breacher Marines (10 man minimum, and you'd have to buy something extra to model boarding shields with)

Using the Pride of the Legion Rite of War
(Tac Marines and Breacher Marines cannot be used as cumpulsory troops in this Rite of Waer)
-Veteran Tac Marines (5 man minimum)
-Terminators (5 man minimum)

Good Luck!


P.S. If I was doing a Ravenguard Legion list, I'd be all over their specific Rite of War, which lets you play with Drop-Pods without too many limitations, FWIW.

With Raven Guard, you've got two choices with the BaC box marines:
Run them as tactical squads (which have an option for taking CCW), who can infiltrate with the Legion tactics (or, if using the RG-specific Rite of War, can take drop pods), or you can buy some jump packs to make them into assault marines.

 the Signless wrote:
Six exclamation marks, a sure sign of a diseased mind.

What kind of a man sits down and WRITES a maniacal laugh?

the_scotsman wrote:

 the Signless wrote:
Six exclamation marks, a sure sign of a diseased mind.

What kind of a man sits down and WRITES a maniacal laugh?

A maniac?

Sorry hang on...

A MANIAC??????

How's This?

Raven Guard Legion

HQ

Praetor:

Power Armor, power sword, plasma pistol

Centurion Chaplain:

Terminator armor(cataphractii), Power Sword, Combi Melta

Troops

Tactical Squad x10 Marines

Power Sword, Heavy Bolter

Tactical Squad x10 Marines

Power Sword, Rocket Launcher

Tactical Support Squad x10 Marines

9x Plasma Guns, Power Sword, Plasma Pistol

Elite

Contemptor Dreadnaught

Storm Canon, Close Combat weapon, Storm Bolter.

Cataphractii Terminators

Lightning Claws x3 pairs, Heavy Flamer, Chain Fist, Power Sword, Stormbolter, Grenade Harness.

I'm afraid your Tactical Squads aren't legal. 30k Tac Squads don't have access to Heavy Weapons.

Also, your Terminator Squad is off, as well. 30K Terminators don't have access to Stormbolters, but come equipped with Comb-bolters ala CSM Terminators.

If you want a fancy pistol for your Praetor, you might consider an Archeotech Pistol, rather than a Plasma Pistol.

Not sure about Contemprot Dreadnought rules, but you'll probably want to double check everything to make sure its legal per the Crusade Army List entries.

I have begun trembling at your request.


It's making driving difficult

It's also making typing at work very hard.

Having troubles drinking my coffee. Spilled it everywhere.

Was trying to brush my teeth - got toothpaste up my nose. Stings like crazy and now my sneezes smell like mint.

Permission to stop trembling?

See you at Isstvan V buddy!

/goes back to reading the Book of Lorgar.

Fire raptors, lots of fire raptors.

methebest wrote:
Fire raptors, lots of fire raptors.

Bid of trouble there if you take the Decapitation Strike Rite of War - only one heavy support slot allowed.

OP - read up about 30k lists and you should consider looking to get these before you charge fully into 30k:



If you don't do some research then you'll probably end up with mis-matched squads armed with less than ideal weapons!

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
With Raven Guard, you've got two choices with the BaC box marines:
Run them as tactical squads (which have an option for taking CCW), who can infiltrate with the Legion tactics (or, if using the RG-specific Rite of War, can take drop pods), or you can buy some jump packs to make them into assault marines.

Assault squads would mean buying arms & weapons as well, you only get a single chainsword and unholstered boltpistol per 10-man set, the other CCWs and bolt pistols are sheathed/holstered.

Breachers are also an option, you can make boarding shields out of plasticard.

The BaC box set includes stormbolters for termis and heavy weapons for tac squads

ha


ember

As someone who has never played hh, i'm pretty sure their tactical squads don't quite work that way. From what i understand they're 10-20 men armed with bolters, although you can get veteran tactical squads which are different. You really need to sort out what's what before you start gluing, as it could make a big difference.

 Torga_DW wrote:
As someone who has never played hh, i'm pretty sure their tactical squads don't quite work that way. From what i understand they're 10-20 men armed with bolters, although you can get veteran tactical squads which are different. You really need to sort out what's what before you start gluing, as it could make a big difference.

Correct. Legion Tactical Squads get the option to either replace boltguns with Close Combat Weapons for free or to buy Close Combat Weapons for every model. They can buy a Nuncio-Vox and a Legion Vexilla, and they can upgrade their sergeant. If the unit numbers no more than 10 (ie the minimum size), you can also buy a Rhino as a dedicated transport. Aside from a combi-weapon on the sergeant, there are no special weapons in a Legion Tactical squad.

Legion Veteran Tactical Squads on the other hand can buy 1 special/heavy weapon per 5 models, with a maximum size of 10 models meaning 2 special/heavy weapons per squad. Veteran Squads are Elite choices though, not Troops, unless you take an appropriate Rite of War that swaps them into the Troops Force Org Slot.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
The BaC box set includes stormbolters for termis and heavy weapons for tac squads

ha


ember

There are heavy weapons for the Tac squads...these are probably legal in the BaC game, but take my word in 30k, a Legion Tac Squad you cannot take Heavy Weapons. As said earlier, Legion Vet Tacs do have access to 2 special/heavy units in a 10 man squad.

As for the terminators, those are Combi-bolters.



I wouldn't mind one bit if someone proxied these for Stormbolters for 40k use, but Legion Terminator squads do not have access to Stormbolters.

The game does consistently refer to the marines as Veteran Tacticals.

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
The BaC box set includes stormbolters for termis and heavy weapons for tac squads

Right, lets start again shall we. A quick lesson on building for Age of Darkness games:

- Think of 30k Legions as Craftword: Space Marines in that every unit is geared to a certain role and only be combining those specialised units into a cohesive force does it all come together
- Your compulsory troops for a 30k Legion force consist of Tactical Squads, Assault Squads and Breacher Squads. Tactical Squads start at 10 men and can be increased to 20. All come with bolters, sergeant can be armed as you'd expect and all are able to add an additional or replace their bolters with close combat weapons. No special or heavy weapons allowed. Assault Squads start at 10 and go up to 20. Breachers, same, but they can take a single special weapon per five men in a unit.
- The only way to effectively field special weapons is to run a Tactical Support Squad (5-10 all armed with the same special weapon) or a Heavy Support Squad (5-10 all armed with the same heavy weapon).
- However, if you run a Delegatus Consul or take a Praetor, you are able to run the Pride of the Legion Rite of War - this allows you to take Veteran Tactical Squads and Terminators as troops. Veterans can mix and match special and heavy weapons - 1 each per 5 men and you can have upgrades such as tank hunter or sniper. But, you are paying a lot for basic Marine stats. A single Typhon shot will wipe the squad.
- Final note: Storm Bolters don't exist in 30k - they are combi-bolters and have different rules.

 Gashrog wrote:
The game does consistently refer to the marines as Veteran Tacticals.

Gotcha....that makes sense, as the sprues look like they are meant to build a Legion Veteran Tactical Squad, including the shoulder mounted Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters, which I assume are meant to be modeled as "Suspensor Webs" or whatever the things are called that let you shoot MLs and HBs as Assault Weapons at half range.

Honstly GW doesn't always make legal box sets (Shield Of Baal) but BaC may not have the same rules as FW (probably same core rules though) so maybe Tac can take heavy/special weapons.


Can you post modified lists, please

If I was starting a Legion List from scratch, this is how I'd use them:

2 x 15 man Tac Squads w/ Bolters and CCWs, Sarges with Power Fists
1 Command Squad in Cataphracti Terminator Armor, kitted out however you like (remember though that 30k Terminators can't Deep Strike by default, although there's a Rite of War that lets you do so).
These guys could be the Command Squad for the TA HQ.
The PA HQ could be used for any number of things...Praetor, Centurion, Consul..or even a fancy Sarge.
Not sure what I'd do with the fugly looking Contemptor Dreadnought that comes in the box, as I don't know the rules off hand.

Then again, using the Pride of the Legion Rite of War, you could do something like:

1 x 10 man Veteran Tactical Squad with two MLs w/ Supsensor Webs, Sarge kitted out as you like
1 x 5 man Cataphractii Terminator Squad.
2 x Tac Support Squads (whatever special weapon you use here, the BaC box will not come with enough of them, so you'd have to find extra).


For me personally, I will be using the BaC Marines as 2 Veteran Squads and a Seeker squad, because, besides Breachers, these are the only PA infantry squads I don't already have for my army...variety is the spice of life kinda thing for me. I'll be using the Termies as a Command Squad and the Termie HQ as a Praetor in TA. Terminators in 30k are pretty meh...so far as I can tell, they are nowhere near as good as 40k SM Terminators with their Stormbolters and Deep Strike ability. Not sure how they stack up points-wise as I don't have the 40k SM codex. The PA HQ I think I will use as a Chaplain, as I don't have one of those.

The dreadnought will probably be trade bait for me...not fond of the model at all.

Are veteran squads core? Or else can you have a legal army with just them?

 EmberlordofFire8 wrote:
Are veteran squads core? Or else can you have a legal army with just them?

30k armies can use a thing called "Rite of War" if you take a Praetor. These restrict your army in someway in return for a benefit.

There's a Rite of War called "Pride of the Legion", which allows you (actually forces you) to take Veterans and/or Terminators as your compulsory Troops choices.

So if you use this Rite of War, you can use Vets as your 2 compulsory Troops choices. After that, I believe you can take Vets to fill the rest of your Troops slots, but I'm not 100% sure on that...I'd have to look at the book.


However, outside of this "Pride of the Legion" Rite of War, Veterans are Elites choices.

First thing you should do is buy the two Redbooks from FW. Read them abit and see how you'd like to play.

30k plays very narrative and fluffy, so 'every drop of power' might not happen, just to keep from getting your hopes up.

What is your playstyle?

 jasper76 wrote:
Well, you're first challenge will be how you want to fill your cumpulsory troops choices.

With the BaC box, you'll get 30 PA dudes and 5 TA dudes. For the 2 cumpulsory troop choices, you're options are:

-Tac Marines (10 man minimum)
-Breacher Marines (10 man minimum, and you'd have to buy something extra to model boarding shields with)

Using the Pride of the Legion Rite of War
(Tac Marines and Breacher Marines cannot be used as cumpulsory troops in this Rite of Waer)
-Veteran Tac Marines (5 man minimum)
-Terminators (5 man minimum)

Good Luck!


P.S. If I was doing a Ravenguard Legion list, I'd be all over their specific Rite of War, which lets you play with Drop-Pods without too many limitations, FWIW.

I wouldn't recommend Breachers for two reasons:

1) MkIV is a poor representation of what they are, all the FW variants wear MkIII for a reason.
2) They are really expensive, paying somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 points for the void hardened rule that won't come up except in Zone Mortalis.

The best use of the 35 dudes in the box is this:

TROOPS:
2x 10-man tactical squads in Rhino - these are your compulsory troops and the only ones you will really need. Their job is to hold objectives and nothing more. If you get an opportunity to gun down someone with Fury of the Legion, great, but it's not as important as getting them in a secure position to cap objectives. As Raven Guard, they have fleet and infiltrate, so they are probably the best tactical marines in the game (although Alpha Legion comes close).

They don't really need upgrades, but there are some honorable mentions: (a) artificer armour on sgt, so he can tank wounds, (b) legion vexilla, if you find yourself failing a lot of morale checks, (c) combi-meltas on sgt and rhino, for two melta shots from an otherwise unthreatening unit... probably not worth the investment, (d) heavy flamer on rhino for additional anti-hordes, again probably not worth investment, but not terrible for only 15 points.

ELITES:
10-man Veteran Squad, Sgt with combi-melta, 2x meltaguns, meltabombs, Veteran Tactic: Tank-hunters. These guys will wreck any armour they get near. If your opponent doesn't run armour, or all his "armour" are monstrous creatures, you can pick Sniper instead so the bolters can contribute to killing them as well. If your opponent has neither, you could even opt for Furious Charge, since they are no slouches in combat with 3 attacks base on each guy. People will tell you "oh no, melta is useless, everyone takes armoured ceramite", but the upgrade isn't as common as you'd think, and S8 AP1 re-rolling pens is still very good. Plus, if you're close enough to get the melta bonus, you are very likely to be able to assault right after and melta-bombs don't care about flare shields or ceramite.

Artificer armour is again a good buy if you have the spare points. Transport options are either Rhino (perhaps with another combi-melta), or Dreadclaw drop pod. Rhino is cheaper, is dedicated, and lets two of them fire out the top (and can take a pintle combi-melta too). Dreadclaw costs 3x more and takes a FA slot, but allows a second-turn assault.

5-man Legion Terminator Squad, 4 power fists, 1 chainfist, 4 combi-plasmas, plasma blaster. These guys are your anti-elites and third scoring unit, and can pinch in against vehicles as well. Transport options are the Dreadclaw as above (dedicated this time), or a Land Raider, as points allow.

That gives you a solid core. To fill out the rest of elites, a pair of rapier batteries would be solid (again, very effective with infiltrate), but since you have a contemptor from the box, you could do 1 battery and 1 dread. I would recommend graviton rapiers for dealing with flare shields and high AV, and give the Contemptor twin Kheres for anti-light transport/flyer/horde (I usually prefer double fist/grav, but since you only have 1 heavy slot if you run the rite, the mortis is an acceptable sicarian/deredeo alternative in a different slot; plus it's cheaper). Any FA slots not taken by dreadclaws should be first spent on Mor Deythan and then Javelin landspeeders. Heavy support is where you normally really splurge.

Hmmm. It might be worth picking up two of the sets if you have the cash. I won't get right into the nitty gritty on points.

1 × Legion Praetor in TA w/ 5 × TA bodyguard
1 x Legion Centurion in PA - Really your pick here. There are few to choose from.

1 × 19 marine tactical squad + 1 × Sgt
1 × 19 marine tactical squad + 1 × Sgt
1 × 19 marine tactical squad + 1 × Sgt

1 x Contemptor Mortis Dreadnought with two Kheres assault cannons.
1 x Contemptor Dreadnought with 2 × Dreadnought CCW w/ graviton guns (or meltas.).
1 × 5 marine Legion Terminator squad.

Add-ons
Legion Apothecaries are a great choice to bolster your tactical squads. 5+ FNP to a twenty marine squad works wonders.

Quad mortar equipped Rapiers. Great for pounding infantry and useful against vehicles.

Sicarian tank. Ignores jink saves, lots of high strength firepower for a great points cost.

As mentioned, Mor Deythan strike squads. Great character and annoying unit killer.

Stormeagle, great for dropping in large squads of tactical marines behind enemy lines.

Mat

I Play a very agressive style, preferring Ccws to ranged combat, i lik Plasma (thats the skaven in me) and dont use power fists often.

That anything to start on?

No plasma in your legion tactical squads. Though you can take them in a legion tactical support squads.

You can upgrade your tactical squads in two ways. First, replace the bolter with additional CCW for free, or spend two points a model and add a cww weapon allowing you to keep the bolter.

Mat