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I moved cities a few years back. When I moved, I put wargaming aside and only recently tried to pick it up again. Where I used to live, I played with a small group of 40K gamers who were all employed in various IT fields. We met up irregularly, but would always have a good time when we did. We would socialise together (all being in IT, we shared out grief from work and laughed at stupid things non-IT people said/did), throw some dice about and laugh and the silly things that would happen on the table. Between games, we kept in regular contact discussing the games we last played or the games we would play next time.

I have spent the past five months trying to break into the local group for where I live today and after tonight I have given up on them. They are all in little cliques, and as far as I can tell the different cliques mostly do not speak with each other. I could not break into any of these groups and still find myself completely on the outer. I have tried to engage them face-to-face. I have tried to engage them online. They just do not seem to want to have anything to do with anyone outside their clique. The final straw was tonight when I complemented someone on his paint job (it was gorgeous!) and he blew me off. Who gets snarky when someone gives them a complement?

They also play way too many games. They play 40K, AoS, W/H, Infinity, Bolt Action, Dropzone Commander, Dystopian Wars, Malifaux, Battletech, and several other games I did not recognise and could not work out what they were (various ancients/classics, modern & sci-fi wargames). Many people collect and play many/most of these games. When I first started going, I only played 40K and if everyone else felt like playing games OTHER than 40K that night, I missed out. I tried to pick up Infinity since then, but even collecting two games did not help me. In five months, I have played one game of 40K and one demo game of Infinity! I played more games in other cities this year than I did my own, which is pretty pathetic (especially when I normally work weekends and rarely make it to games in other places).

This leads to the next issue: no one knows what game they want to play! They spend an hour or two discussing what to play, then go get the appropriate game from the car, then discuss how big the game should be (40K players seem to mostly play 2500; I do not understand the points for the other games). They then write their lists, look at their opponent's list, change their lists based on what their opponent is fielding, check lists again, maybe change again. I typically go home when, after two hours, most people are still not ready to deploy. I have watched those who got organised faster play for a while and they are largely terrible players too. Likely because they play so many games, none of them know the rules! They keep getting mixed up between different game systems or armies and spend half their time looking up things they really should have memorised. Also because they are running so many games at once, almost no one has more than one or two squads painted in any given system :(

I will not give up on wargaming completely, but I will only get to other cities once every three-to-four months. I just cannot believe how bad the local scene is. Are these groups like this common and my first group was exceptionally good, or have I stumbled over the worst group in the country?

As an aside, I am also involved in the local board gaming group. They are really friendly and open and I always have fun with them. None of the problems I experience with the wargaming group are present there.

Not surprised. Haven't seen it myself, but have read posts about disorganized and dysfunctional gaming groups. Is anyone from your boardgame groups interested in wargames to play at the store? Or any wargame / boardgames playable at the boardgame group?

-

That sounds pants :(

The gaming group I attend has a wide range of gaming systems (including people who like playing various board games, card games and RPG's) but most people sort out what they will be playing online beforehand (at least in general terms). It generally only take about 10 minutes of chatting at the start of the night to get everything going.

Strange that there are so many sub-groups within your club though!

Sounds weird, Ive never experienced anything like what you described... actually the only dysfunctional gaming groups im aware of in my area is the 40k group which refuses to play anything but 40k at stupidly high points levels spamming every cheesy FW unit you can imagine.

Oh, that and also a group of older guys who used to be regulars but kinda got pushed out by the younger dudes (myself included). They got us hooked on WMHDs but insisted on playing "casually" while everyone else embraced more competitive aspects of the game (which isnt to say were competitive at all, just that we bothered to learn the rules as they are written rather than trying to reinterpret it in other ways). They still show up evwry now and again to play the odd game of this or that, but for the most part they show up for 15 minutes, talk about what to play, and then decide to leave to get some beer and appetizers at the local pub.

Building lists & deciding is generally stuff you should be prepared with ahead of time- I usually bring 2-ish lists, one if I/my opponent want competitive play, another for more casual/learning something new. Modify if necessary for size, etc.

Maybe bring 2 games if really unsure or want to hedge. And usually I'll be in a kick, playing the 2-4 systems I'm enjoying at any given point, so there's some familiarity w/ what I'm bringing.

Should take 10-20 minutes to get in to a game.

My gaming problems are mostly people not showing up reliably.

So yeah, what your talking about sounds kinda' frustrating. It's why game nights dedicated to given systems are more reliable.

Have you tried doing a search online for other local clubs? Also, attending a local (as much as possible) games fair or show?

Using both of these I was amazed that there were some local clubs that I didn't even know existed. You might find one that is more to your liking. I must say that sounds a little bit odd/extreme, I've been to clubs that change games every couple of months (and are bloody expensive and time consuming to keep up pace with!) but nothing like that before.

I've seen that behaviour in other interests too. Generally a case of insecurity or narrow mindedness due to being stuck in isolation and/ or never out of their safe zone. But just a generalisation. Those groups are quite toxic to your brain i find too, best avoided.

At our FLGS there's 2 guys. Aged 20-29? Rarely play anyone else. Never come to 40k night. Never in the friendly tournies. Always play unpainted stuff.
Weird. They've been invited numerous times too and are seem ok to talk to.

It's one of the reasons I'm starting to get irritated at tabletop roleplaying and that's people just not having any effort in it.

I GM which means I should do about 1000% more work than any individual player and they can't be bothered to:
1) Show up on time
2) Keep their character sheet updated

The best games I've had are with a group of other GMs because they bother to keep their character sheets updated. Sadly, all GMs want to run games, not play them.

Sounds like my war-games aftershcool club when I was 12.
You might be better served finding some folks who've never played anything like 40k and introducing them with some small fun skirmishes. Maybe you could meet at the dysfunctional gaming centre and as more sensible players see an actual game being played they'll figure out how to play like grown ups while the kids are still drooling over their mostly unpainted, no doubt mostly "counts as" 2500 points of undeployed plastic.

OP did you say "look, this is the sort of game I like and the way I like to play, anyone fancy a game like that?" and see if anyone gave it a try, or did you just simmer and say nothing before going online with complaints?

ced1106 wrote:
Is anyone from your boardgame groups interested in wargames to play at the store? Or any wargame / boardgames playable at the boardgame group?

Actually, I looked into that a couple of months back. I was particularly focusing on Infinity, given its was quicker to play and cheaper than 40K. Some of them were moderately interested, but did not have the funds/time to pick up the hobby. I certainly cannot blame them, but I suspect a few of them would have made really good opponents.

 Pacific wrote:
Have you tried doing a search online for other local clubs? Also, attending a local (as much as possible) games fair or show?

I had tried looking online and even this club could not be found! I only found them through word-of-mouth from another club in a different city (a really good club, but too far away for me to attend regularly) where someone knew how to find my local club. There are no local game fairs/shows, though the board game group does want to get something regular going locally for International Tabletop Day. Perhaps that could grow into something in time!

 theCrowe wrote:
...while the kids are still drooling over their mostly unpainted, no doubt mostly "counts as" 2500 points of undeployed plastic.

Believe it or not, none of it is counts-as (technically). From what I could gather, someone in the group orders cheap Chinese knock-offs and the rest get everything through him. I may not like GW prices, but that is just wrong

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
OP did you say "look, this is the sort of game I like and the way I like to play, anyone fancy a game like that?" and see if anyone gave it a try, or did you just simmer and say nothing before going online with complaints?

I started attending the group 12th August this year and gave up 21st November. In that time, I spent every meeting attempting to engage members face-to-face and spent time between meets trying to engage them over Facebook. Most were opposed to being associated with wargaming over Facebook, however, so that was completely dead in the water! I regularly mentioned what games systems and factions I had. I would attempt to engage in friendly banter ("More like Imperial-issue flashlights, am I right?"), ask questions about game systems I did not know, try to talk about painting and modelling aspects of the hobby. I always came with lists prepared, brought my minis in with me (rather than leaving them in the car like the others would) and made that known.

 nullBolt wrote:
It's one of the reasons I'm starting to get irritated at tabletop roleplaying and that's people just not having any effort in it.

I GM which means I should do about 1000% more work than any individual player and they can't be bothered to:
1) Show up on time
2) Keep their character sheet updated

The best games I've had are with a group of other GMs because they bother to keep their character sheets updated. Sadly, all GMs want to run games, not play them.

I am a GM and I would kill to play for a change.

@OP- Try starting your own club.

I'm really sorry to hear about your trouble, and to be honest reading your post made me very grateful for the two people I do play with. Normally I would say that gaming groups which embrace so many different kinds of games, as mine does, are really awesome to have but the things you describe them doing is just... weird. For example my group will decide what to play on a particular weekend a few days in advance so that we don't waste time figuring out what we want to do on game day, and everyone will usually have a list ready to go and we NEVER look at each other's list before the game starts and do rewrites. That's just insane.

Hang in there man, hopefully soon you'll find a few decent chaps.

OP: With strange groups I usually find a person in the group who I seem to get along with and just talk about setting up a game with them.
Proceed to play a game and see if others swing by to look.
Try to rope in another two and see if they want to play a 4-way game.
(no references to keys in jar collected or swingers here...)
The "group" can organically develop and does not need someone loud and demanding to organize it.

Is the club having fun though? Sounds like they might be enjoying themselves playing different games where you just want to play 40k?

Giving up on my local wargaming group!

The problem is they were never your group to begin with. For whatever reason, their clique is satisfied with the status qua. Very short sited. Just wait until Tommy discovers girls, Billy gets a 9-5 job, and Harry gets arrested for cocaine. Then who will Mike play with? Didn't think about that, did you Mike?! With your greasy hair and your unwashed Metallica t-shirt. Ahem.

I'm sorry about that. I hope you find a better group of guys/players.

Bad memories, Kronk?

Torga: I dunno. I'd rather play other games myself, but these guys seem to have developed some fairly strange tics, whatever they play.

It happens. My best group was in the army, and once back in Tempe the groups I ran with lacked a certain something. I found one group in WA years later that was cool, realized they were more my age & maturity and followed through on meeting up for games. Try facebook, you can find gamers groups easy that way now....

Our locals use Facebook to sort out things like "Who's up for WHFB on Thursday" or "Anyone want to try Bolt Action?"
Points are sorted beforehand and upon getting to the club usually dice are rolling in about 20 minutes.

 kronk wrote:
Just wait until Tommy discovers girls, Billy gets a 9-5 job, and Harry gets arrested for cocaine. Then who will Mike play with? Didn't think about that, did you Mike?! With your greasy hair and your unwashed Metallica t-shirt. Ahem.
.

Go on Kronk... which one were you?

Your new group seem to like playing a range of games. Ever though of meeting them halfway - ask to borrow a force or pick up some X-Wing or Malifaux models? Buy-in is way less than 40k.

Another way is to offer to bring them to you with an "event" game. Just tell them you're bringing a game for X players and prepare the scenario, figures, force lists and anything else you need. Type out commander sheets for each faction. Could be any setup - 3 vs 3, all vs referee. Do something skirmishy with a bunch of 40k figures. Get a bunch of people laughing and backstabbing round a table.

I have run lunchtime gaming clubs, and with less than an hour to play, you really do have to say "prep your lists beforehand, and when you arrive get some figures on the table and start playing... Go!"

Or they may not be for you which is fair enough.

Just start your own gaming group, and be selective of whom you invite

When i started playing WHFB and 40k I played my friends on their dinning room tables so I never went to any gaming clubs. I then had a break from playing and when time and money allowed I got back into playing properly most of my friends from that time don't play anymore and/or moved away to make regular games impossible. So I decided I needed to join a club and being quite lucky there are four or five active clubs in driving distance from my house, if I wanted I could game nearly every night.

However each club has a very different feel to it, one was very insular much like the OPs gaming club, I left after about 45 minutes having failed to get more than one word answers out of people. Another club was quite fun but had a lot of very young kids running around and not my scene because of that. Another club was very WAAC, not my scene. The club I settled on was much more relaxed and friendly.

What I'm trying to say is that shop around clubs if you can, no need to walk away from your existing one till you found somewhere more suitable.

Even in my small town, there are multiple gaming groups/circles that have never even heard of each other, and I swear, every time I visit a game store out of town but in the region (Central Florida) I meet someone who lives/games where I live. I've even met people who live in my city that I had never met at game stores nearly an hour away or more.

I wouldn't give up hope on finding a group. Hit the FLGS if it's convenient, or widen your net on the web. Good luck, and I hope you find some cool folk to dice with!