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So, is the return of Nagash trying to sell more Vampire Count models or more Cannons? Hmm...

 Crazyterran wrote:
So, is the return of Nagash trying to sell more Vampire Count models or more Cannons? Hmm...

Depends on whether your army is going to include him or face him. Win Win for GW.

 Laemos wrote:
How common are 4000 point games. People keep mentioning them and that seems like a lot of models on a table.

I played a game a few weeks ago that was 12,500 points per side. We each took up a whole 16-foot deployment zone. It was also Storm of Magic, so we had combat on top of Turn 1. It was epic and awesome and I wish we'd had time for more than two turns. I live for games like that!

 Crazyterran wrote:
So, is the return of Nagash trying to sell more Vampire Count models or more Cannons? Hmm...

Its because there is more then meets the eye to Nagashatron.

Transformable cannons into vampires.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Laemos wrote:
How common are 4000 point games. People keep mentioning them and that seems like a lot of models on a table.

I played a game a few weeks ago that was 12,500 points per side. We each took up a whole 16-foot deployment zone. It was also Storm of Magic, so we had combat on top of Turn 1. It was epic and awesome and I wish we'd had time for more than two turns. I live for games like that!

How long did 2 turns take?

With 16' deployment zones you must have spent hours just setting up.

Big games of both 40k and fantasy are probably my favorite aspect of the hobby. Biggest fantasy game I've ever played was 1v2, skaven vs. Empire and Dwarfs (fluffy!), 6,000 points per side. 'Twas a blast!

If you've never seen 6000 points of painted skaven on the table, you've missed out on life!

I will probably get the book immediately, but I'll grab Settra and add him to my Tomb Kings first, then I'll be able to do the 4,000 points thing and we can play fluffy battles! Huzzah!

 His Master's Voice wrote:
A bunch of skulls in a pit do not carry the same narrative potential a bunch of skulls filling an undead construct do. If you're genuinely convinced they do, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I fail to see how they are any different - both are examples of a large collection of skulls in a single place where they are not usually found. Inventing fluff-based justifications is either equally valid for both, or equally invalid. Nothing about having a monster stuffed with a pile of skulls is inherently any more "narrative" than having the same skulls on the ground, in a trench, or anywhere else.

 gorgon wrote:
TBH, I think criticizing the model on that basis is lazy.

If I had to explain what bothers me about the Nagash model, I think I'd first point to its lack of dynamism. The pose seems very stiff and upright, especially above the waist -- shoulders level and in line with the hips, etc. The flying spirits appear to be there to help give the overall composition some movement, but I'm not sure that they succeed.

The overall lines of the model also seem much more graceful than menacing -- many more gentle curves than threatening edges. The recurve lines you see in the protuberances and the tabard are suggestive of a human spine, but I think they subtlely lend a serenity to the model that doesn't thematically fit the big baddie of the Warhammer world, even if he's an wizard by trade. I'd like to see more aggression in the model. Overall, I also feel like the model is lacking soul and an organic quality somehow, perhaps as a result of CAD design.

Note that all this doesn't mean that I dislike the model. If I actually played WFB anymore, I'd strongly consider getting one. I think it also has a lot of good things going on, and it takes me back to the 4th ed. army book when I started the game. I also might very well change some of my criticisms after seeing the model in person.

Fair point - I've honed in on the perhaps 'easy' target of the bone/skull apocalypse because it was the first thing that caught my attention with all the models, and, on Nagash at least, when they are removed the improvement is substantial (there is a photoshopped image in this very thread somewhere that aptly demonstrates this).

That only makes the model better, though, not objectively 'good' - I agree with you about the pose and the spirits, the latter having been applied in overabundance to all the models shown and I think all of them would be improved by their removal. But the bone-overload is really what tips each model from 'not very good' to 'utterly silly, uninspired, and non-threatening'.

 godswildcard wrote:
Big games of both 40k and fantasy are probably my favorite aspect of the hobby. Biggest fantasy game I've ever played was 1v2, skaven vs. Empire and Dwarfs (fluffy!), 6,000 points per side. 'Twas a blast!

If you've never seen 6000 points of painted skaven on the table, you've missed out on life!

I will probably get the book immediately, but I'll grab Settra and add him to my Tomb Kings first, then I'll be able to do the 4,000 points thing and we can play fluffy battles! Huzzah!

I love the "idea" of playing large battles. I love the imagery in my mind of huge fantasy armies facing off. In practice, the logistics of actually doing a battle destroys any fun in it. I'd rather paint 2000pts of models reasonably well than throw together 6000pts of ugly models, assuming I have the time to do anything beyond assemble them anyway. Then you have transporting the army, the fact you have to dedicate a full day or possibly even 2 to play the game. The size of the table you need to play it on.

You don't assemble 6000 points of models in one go, unless you want to punish yourself, it's something you collect over years so you have time to paint them in whatever quality you normally aspire to.

Any chance the original poster can update the first post?

Well with the new Nagash book allowing for 50% of your army to be Lords, this is all moot.

2k with 1 model taking up half your army makes it pretty simple. But will TO's allow this new Nagash book to be used in tourneys?

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Any chance the original poster can update the first post?

Yeah, I do hate it when a poster will just drop something in the news/rumor section, then never bother updating the first post, even if other commenters post more info/pics later in the thread.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I love the "idea" of playing large battles. I love the imagery in my mind of huge fantasy armies facing off. In practice, the logistics of actually doing a battle destroys any fun in it. I'd rather paint 2000pts of models reasonably well than throw together 6000pts of ugly models, assuming I have the time to do anything beyond assemble them anyway. Then you have transporting the army, the fact you have to dedicate a full day or possibly even 2 to play the game. The size of the table you need to play it on.

If there is one thing I've learned in 13 years in the hobby, it's that you can't approach a big game with anything other than the most laid back mentality possible. People often try to apply the same mindset to big games that they do to small ones or tournaments, and that just won't work. If you're double-checking every measurement and rule, wondering what the absolute most effective move is, or standing there with your finger on a piece after moving, then yes, a big game will take FOREVER and it likely won't be any fun.

But if you're just spending the day with your friends, knocking back a few cold ones and laughing hysterically as the dreaded 13th turns a unit of Halberdiers into rats, only to have the grey seer implode casting skitter leap immediately after. That's what they're all about. That's what I think I love most about big games...it matters less who wins or loses and more that you're just having a good time. Which is why I'm all about this Nagash expansion. It gives people a reason to play big games of fantasy! "You want to run a 1,000 point lord? Sweet! Let's throw down!"

 Shandara wrote:
You don't assemble 6000 points of models in one go, unless you want to punish yourself, it's something you collect over years so you have time to paint them in whatever quality you normally aspire to.

Yeah I usually get bored of an army after a year or two

 theFNGuy wrote:
Well with the new Nagash book allowing for 50% of your army to be Lords, this is all moot.

2k with 1 model taking up half your army makes it pretty simple. But will TO's allow this new Nagash book to be used in tourneys?

Not around here, at least.

Regarding huge games, the easiest thing to do is use a ruleset that is build for huge games, instead of overburdening one that is designed for smaller games.

For example, using the Warmaster rules to play large games of Warhammer. You'll still have a 2-3 hour game but you'll have about a thousand miniatures on the table. Or more.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Is it just me or does Nagash look effing HUGE?!? That is 100mm wide (Stonehorn/Arachnarok/Terrorgheist) base, right?

I think it was mentioned in one of the previous posts - but seems like 40mm square?

I haven't seen a comparison shot yet.

He is tall, dark, and handsome!

I think its an Arachnarok base. Look how small those spirits are.

It's like 100 bucks so it "must" be. He's Knight or Titan sized.

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
I think its an Arachnarok base. Look how small those spirits are.

It's like 100 bucks so it "must" be. He's Knight or Titan sized.

How did he get so big?

Like... he went from a Human liche to a bone giant liche???

 Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
I think its an Arachnarok base. Look how small those spirits are.

It's like 100 bucks so it "must" be. He's Knight or Titan sized.

How did he get so big?

Like... he went from a Human liche to a bone giant liche???

Warpstone and sorcery.

Yea, he is huge. Here is a comparison.

 Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

 Col. Tartleton wrote:
I think its an Arachnarok base. Look how small those spirits are.

It's like 100 bucks so it "must" be. He's Knight or Titan sized.

How did he get so big?

Like... he went from a Human liche to a bone giant liche???

He was exposed to, experimented with and even ate prodigious amounts of warpstone. So remember: say no to drugs and weird glowing rocks.

I dunno. If a drug has a possible side effect of making you an unkillable and massively powerful necromantic overlord, then I'd chomp down the stuff for breakfast. I mean, I owe it to my future self, right?

Poor prince Apophas. No one takes him, and then when someone finally does he goes one v one with Nagash.


Not a good day at the office!

Herzlos wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Laemos wrote:
How common are 4000 point games. People keep mentioning them and that seems like a lot of models on a table.

I played a game a few weeks ago that was 12,500 points per side. We each took up a whole 16-foot deployment zone. It was also Storm of Magic, so we had combat on top of Turn 1. It was epic and awesome and I wish we'd had time for more than two turns. I live for games like that!

How long did 2 turns take?

With 16' deployment zones you must have spent hours just setting up.

Spent about an hour-plus deploying, then the two turns (both sides) took about 5-6 hours. It was brutal right off the bat: Warriors of Chaos and Dark Elves against Empire and Dwarves, plus various monsters from Storm of Magic. Things hit the fan fast and hard.

I'm as fond of bashing GW as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic when it comes to giant hats and fake beards: When we're talking about undead necromancer Liche-kings, a certain degree of ponce is mandatory. Nagash should really be the ponceyest ponce who ever ponced a ponce. A hat that's not a minimum 8 ft tall would undermine his credibility as lord of the undead. When you're a mortal general it's expected that you dress practically for battle. When you're an immortal undead overlord who has shed the bonds of flesh and no longer cares for the joys of food, drink, and the warmth of a lover's embrace, the only purpose left in life is to make sure you look absolutely fabulous.

To that end, my only criticism of the model (apart from its thoroughly unnecessary size creep and attendant price-creep) is that it has too much armour and not enough needlessly extravagant robes with pointy shoulder pads. I want his pointy shoulder pads to have pointy shoulder pads. Those weird spine spikes on his back need fine satin capes to be billowing off of them. Instead of being born aloft by tormented spirits, I want to see Nagash wearing them like robes.

When you have the raw magical power and warpstone-fueled madness to sculpt everyone who makes fun of your giant hat into a freaking skeleton loin cloth, you don't hulk and brood in giant suits of armor, you strut and swagger..

 JOHIRA wrote:
I'm as fond of bashing GW as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic when it comes to giant hats and fake beards: When we're talking about undead necromancer Liche-kings, a certain degree of ponce is mandatory. Nagash should really be the ponceyest ponce who ever ponced a ponce. A hat that's not a minimum 8 ft tall would undermine his credibility as lord of the undead. When you're a mortal general it's expected that you dress practically for battle. When you're an immortal undead overlord who has shed the bonds of flesh and no longer cares for the joys of food, drink, and the warmth of a lover's embrace, the only purpose left in life is to make sure you look absolutely fabulous.

To that end, my only criticism of the model (apart from its thoroughly unnecessary size creep and attendant price-creep) is that it has too much armour and not enough needlessly extravagant robes with pointy shoulder pads. I want his pointy shoulder pads to have pointy shoulder pads. Those weird spine spikes on his back need fine satin capes to be billowing off of them. Instead of being born aloft by tormented spirits, I want to see Nagash wearing them like robes.

When you have the raw magical power and warpstone-fueled madness to sculpt everyone who makes fun of your giant hat into a freaking skeleton loin cloth, you don't hulk and brood in giant suits of armor, you strut and swagger..

Exalted, and quoted onto another forum for pointedness and awesome.

 JOHIRA wrote:
I'm as fond of bashing GW as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic when it comes to giant hats and fake beards: When we're talking about undead necromancer Liche-kings, a certain degree of ponce is mandatory. Nagash should really be the ponceyest ponce who ever ponced a ponce. A hat that's not a minimum 8 ft tall would undermine his credibility as lord of the undead. When you're a mortal general it's expected that you dress practically for battle. When you're an immortal undead overlord who has shed the bonds of flesh and no longer cares for the joys of food, drink, and the warmth of a lover's embrace, the only purpose left in life is to make sure you look absolutely fabulous.

To that end, my only criticism of the model (apart from its thoroughly unnecessary size creep and attendant price-creep) is that it has too much armour and not enough needlessly extravagant robes with pointy shoulder pads. I want his pointy shoulder pads to have pointy shoulder pads. Those weird spine spikes on his back need fine satin capes to be billowing off of them. Instead of being born aloft by tormented spirits, I want to see Nagash wearing them like robes.

When you have the raw magical power and warpstone-fueled madness to sculpt everyone who makes fun of your giant hat into a freaking skeleton loin cloth, you don't hulk and brood in giant suits of armor, you strut and swagger..

This man understands Wizards, like nobody in GW ever can.

Anvildude wrote:

 JOHIRA wrote:
I'm as fond of bashing GW as much as the next guy, but let's be realistic when it comes to giant hats and fake beards: When we're talking about undead necromancer Liche-kings, a certain degree of ponce is mandatory. Nagash should really be the ponceyest ponce who ever ponced a ponce. A hat that's not a minimum 8 ft tall would undermine his credibility as lord of the undead. When you're a mortal general it's expected that you dress practically for battle. When you're an immortal undead overlord who has shed the bonds of flesh and no longer cares for the joys of food, drink, and the warmth of a lover's embrace, the only purpose left in life is to make sure you look absolutely fabulous.

To that end, my only criticism of the model (apart from its thoroughly unnecessary size creep and attendant price-creep) is that it has too much armour and not enough needlessly extravagant robes with pointy shoulder pads. I want his pointy shoulder pads to have pointy shoulder pads. Those weird spine spikes on his back need fine satin capes to be billowing off of them. Instead of being born aloft by tormented spirits, I want to see Nagash wearing them like robes.

When you have the raw magical power and warpstone-fueled madness to sculpt everyone who makes fun of your giant hat into a freaking skeleton loin cloth, you don't hulk and brood in giant suits of armor, you strut and swagger..

This man understands Wizards, like nobody in GW ever can.

Terry Pratchett would be taking notes!
...
would be.
(._. )