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 jah-joshua wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I hope you're prepared to pay extortionate prices.

of course, but only if it has the fancy leather cover, and is limited to 9 copies worldwide...
sign me up...

cheers
jah

Don't forget the ribbon bookmark woven from Jervis' eyebrow pluckings. Truly the mark of the elite.

I'd paint that Nagash model to resemble Skeletor - the greeny-yellowy bones an obvious effect of Warpstone.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Because the context is, or rather can be different. One can be explained within the setting to be anything (including not being actual skulls at all) - a power source, a soul prison, hive consciousness of the beats, a weapon waiting to be unleashed, etc, etc. The other begs the question as to why is there a mass grave consisting exclusively of skulls beneath the road and not much else.

One can tell a story, the other cannot.

As for Nagash, bone ornaments are nothing uncommon in fantasy. Sure, the bonetacles and boneard might not the best part about the model, but I wouldn't decry the use of cartilage as a decorative element as something fundamentally lazy.

The trouble with that is it can equally be applied to the example you gave. What if those skulls under the road are an elaborate trap set by Chaos worshippers, each skull hiding a primed grenade? What if servants of Khorne imprisoned souls within skulls and then imprisoned them beneath the earth? If you're going to make up explanations, then they can equally used to explain anything, and so I think it makes far more sense to critique the design based on what is known, not a myriad of vague possibilities that have no real supporting evidence.

No, bone ornaments are not uncommon, but they only work in moderation. In the ridiculous quantities present on Nagash and his friends, it crosses the line into parody and silliness. If Nagash just had the skulls on his belt, or just the tabard, or just a bone-themed headdress (though not quite as towering as the one he has), it wouldn't be nearly as bad - the fact that every single decoration is bone themed comes across as lazy, because it suggests the designers had no other ideas to make him look undead, evil, or intimidating. The exact same problem present in the skull-overabundance that is so often maligned everywhere else.

 Kanluwen wrote:
What is it with people and cannons?

Do you really see them that often? I don't.

Actually, yes.

In our area, every Dwarf player takes at least one, usually two. Every DoC player takes two. Every Ogre player has at least one. Every Empire player has anywhere from 2-4 (including Stanks). Every Skaven player has at least one, if not two, WLC. Pretty much every army that has the capacity to take a cannon equivalent (with the exception of WoC) in our area takes at least one, if not the maximum available.

Our most recent tournament on last Saturday had 24 participants, and just over 25% of them had at least one cannon. That doesn't count the two VC players that had their "cannon" in the form of 1-2 'Geists, or the four DE players, of which at least two had Death magic available to the army.

As cool as Nagash is, if you're using him in a largish game (like a 4K game where he would normally be useable), there is a distinct likelihood of him dying early in the game to anti-big-stuff weapons.

 TwilightSparkles wrote:

Anyhow imagine what 40K could be like if GW showed similar purpose to advance the fluff beyond "oh noes a big fight near eye of terror and the necrons/tyranids conveniently not a big threat lol" stalemate.....

I can see End Times being a Sanctus Reach style product leading into a new WFB edition with some new Empire/Elves to meet the threat unless somehow the Bretonnians get wrapped in, which I suppose is possible given their background. Either way I am certain we will see something for the "good" guys in the coming months.

They'll advance the fluff and then retcon it like the Storm of Chaos. SURPRISE!

 MalusCalibur wrote:
The trouble with that is it can equally be applied to the example you gave. What if those skulls under the road are an elaborate trap set by Chaos worshippers, each skull hiding a primed grenade? What if servants of Khorne imprisoned souls within skulls and then imprisoned them beneath the earth? If you're going to make up explanations, then they can equally used to explain anything, and so I think it makes far more sense to critique the design based on what is known, not a myriad of vague possibilities that have no real supporting evidence.

A bunch of skulls in a pit do not carry the same narrative potential a bunch of skulls filling an undead construct do. If you're genuinely convinced they do, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 MalusCalibur wrote:
The trouble with that is it can equally be applied to the example you gave. What if those skulls under the road are an elaborate trap set by Chaos worshippers, each skull hiding a primed grenade? What if servants of Khorne imprisoned souls within skulls and then imprisoned them beneath the earth? If you're going to make up explanations, then they can equally used to explain anything, and so I think it makes far more sense to critique the design based on what is known, not a myriad of vague possibilities that have no real supporting evidence.

A bunch of skulls in a pit do not carry the same narrative potential a bunch of skulls filling an undead construct do. If you're genuinely convinced they do, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So if you fill everything with skulls, cover everything with skulls, style everything's hair with a fine skull paste and eat only bowls of skullios, by the same literary math as a million monkeys at a million typewriters, you'll eventually create something where skullmageddon actually has "narrative potential". It took GW 25 years of an increasingly overwhelming skull fetish, but by god, they did it!

 judgedoug wrote:

They'll advance the fluff and then retcon it like the Storm of Chaos. SURPRISE!

I think they'll take the opportunity to wipe out a few minor races that have never really been supported with mini's or books - like Kislev. I'm sure they'd try to get rid of Araby as well if it was anywhere near the chaos wastelands. I can see them merging Brets and Empire as well and trying to make them more IP protectable.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 MalusCalibur wrote:
Agreed - but I'd hardly consider a bone-tabard, bone-hat or bone-tacles to be categorised under 'constructs' in the same vein as the Tomb King ones (Giant, Scorpion, Catapult). And I'll say again, there is a monstrous mount that is filled with skulls. They don't form any real part of the creatures' structure nor do they offer it any kind of mobility or combat advantage - they're just there. How does that not fall into the same category of idiocy as the examples you listed?

Because the context is, or rather can be different. One can be explained within the setting to be anything (including not being actual skulls at all) - a power source, a soul prison, hive consciousness of the beats, a weapon waiting to be unleashed, etc, etc. The other begs the question as to why is there a mass grave consisting exclusively of skulls beneath the road and not much else.

One can tell a story, the other cannot.

As for Nagash, bone ornaments are nothing uncommon in fantasy. Sure, the bonetacles and boneard might not the best part about the model, but I wouldn't decry the use of cartilage as a decorative element as something fundamentally lazy.

TBH, I think criticizing the model on that basis is lazy.

If I had to explain what bothers me about the Nagash model, I think I'd first point to its lack of dynamism. The pose seems very stiff and upright, especially above the waist -- shoulders level and in line with the hips, etc. The flying spirits appear to be there to help give the overall composition some movement, but I'm not sure that they succeed.

The overall lines of the model also seem much more graceful than menacing -- many more gentle curves than threatening edges. The recurve lines you see in the protuberances and the tabard are suggestive of a human spine, but I think they subtlely lend a serenity to the model that doesn't thematically fit the big baddie of the Warhammer world, even if he's an wizard by trade. I'd like to see more aggression in the model. Overall, I also feel like the model is lacking soul and an organic quality somehow, perhaps as a result of CAD design.

Note that all this doesn't mean that I dislike the model. If I actually played WFB anymore, I'd strongly consider getting one. I think it also has a lot of good things going on, and it takes me back to the 4th ed. army book when I started the game. I also might very well change some of my criticisms after seeing the model in person.

Couple of images I've not seen ITT from BoW

Have to say, that long shot of Nagash does help the whole thing look less distorted. I've still no desire to own it, but I now have less of a compulsion to run away screaming.

Wow, looks great!

I think his head will look fine with a smaller hat. It exemplifies the smallness of his head, which isn't actually that small it's just the hat is big, his chest is very barrel shaped and every other GW model is fething bobble headed.

Do we have any idea on his scale?

I would hate to transport him. Not only is he an expensive model, he’s going to require a good sized chunk of custom foam to get anywhere in one piece.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think his head will look fine with a smaller hat. It exemplifies the smallness of his head, which isn't actually that small it's just the hat is big, his chest is very barrel shaped and every other GW model is fething bobble headed.

Hmm, doesn't look like it:

 judgedoug wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think his head will look fine with a smaller hat. It exemplifies the smallness of his head, which isn't actually that small it's just the hat is big, his chest is very barrel shaped and every other GW model is fething bobble headed.

Hmm, doesn't look like it:

Yeah, still looks a bit small, but a lot better IMO.

 MalusCalibur wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Because the context is, or rather can be different. One can be explained within the setting to be anything (including not being actual skulls at all) - a power source, a soul prison, hive consciousness of the beats, a weapon waiting to be unleashed, etc, etc. The other begs the question as to why is there a mass grave consisting exclusively of skulls beneath the road and not much else.

One can tell a story, the other cannot.

As for Nagash, bone ornaments are nothing uncommon in fantasy. Sure, the bonetacles and boneard might not the best part about the model, but I wouldn't decry the use of cartilage as a decorative element as something fundamentally lazy.

The trouble with that is it can equally be applied to the example you gave. What if those skulls under the road are an elaborate trap set by Chaos worshippers, each skull hiding a primed grenade? What if servants of Khorne imprisoned souls within skulls and then imprisoned them beneath the earth? If you're going to make up explanations, then they can equally used to explain anything, and so I think it makes far more sense to critique the design based on what is known, not a myriad of vague possibilities that have no real supporting evidence.

No, bone ornaments are not uncommon, but they only work in moderation. In the ridiculous quantities present on Nagash and his friends, it crosses the line into parody and silliness. If Nagash just had the skulls on his belt, or just the tabard, or just a bone-themed headdress (though not quite as towering as the one he has), it wouldn't be nearly as bad - the fact that every single decoration is bone themed comes across as lazy, because it suggests the designers had no other ideas to make him look undead, evil, or intimidating. The exact same problem present in the skull-overabundance that is so often maligned everywhere else.

Given the skulls in the constructs are painted glowy green like ghosts I'm taking the liberty to say they're being used as soul filled batteries to power the things.

I magnetize bases and transport armies on sheets of steel, for reasons like this guy.

Nagash's choice of headwear is influenced by Hollywood's interpretation of ancient Egypt

New Nagash kinda makes me think of this-

You know, I think they were trying to go for a bishop / egyptian style with Nagash's hat.
Which sort of makes sense, considering how they are trying to make Nagash a blend of Tomb Kings (Egyptian) and Vampire Count (European) aesthetics.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, I think they were trying to go for a bishop / egyptian style with Nagash's hat.
Which sort of makes sense, considering how they are trying to make Nagash a blend of Tomb Kings (Egyptian) and Vampire Count (European) aesthetics.

I thought that they were going for a Chaos Dwarf thing.

Eh, Chaos Dwarfs were Babylonians. Close enough.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, I think they were trying to go for a bishop / egyptian style with Nagash's hat.
Which sort of makes sense, considering how they are trying to make Nagash a blend of Tomb Kings (Egyptian) and Vampire Count (European) aesthetics.

I put my money on Jaffar from the 1992 Disney movie (add the old Arkhan model as well - heck, he was even a Grand Vizier).

 TheKbob wrote:
This thread, if anything, makes me want to go get a Lizardman book and get busy. Before, I just thought it was "lulz, DINOWIZARDS!"

Would it worth getting a cheap copy of the softback and thumbing through it, Lizard fans?

As interesting reading? Sure. Some great stuff in the older books, lots of flavour and character. 6th Edition Slann were amazing, they could come from different generations, and the older they were the more all-powerful they would be.

These days, all Slann are 5th Gen, with Kroak (aka. Zombie-Slann) the only 1st Generation slann, and Mazdamundi is probably 2nd or 3rd Generation.

Ah, change for the sake of change...

I'm still trying to find a reason to buy him - can't get past the price tag. Same thing for Knights.

I remember that show, but when I think Nagash, this comes to mind:



When I saw Nagash and his cohorts my initial response was:

Hopefully we can get some more leaks about the book soon, i'm keen to know what's gonna be in that one lore and rules wise, since we've all critiqued the models to death already.

Oh, wow. Mummies, ALIVE! That's a throw back. One I dunno I needed, but WOW... Yep, I see it now.

I am curious whats going on in the lesser expanded upon parts of the world, that are near these events, like Araby and Ind. curious to see how brets play out

Nagash's return has been an excellent infusion of Nostalgia in more than one way. Skeleton Warriors and Mummies Alive