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http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/world/pope-apologize-gays/index.html

Spoiler:

Aboard the Papal Plane (CNN)Pope Francis said Sunday that Christians owe apologies to gays and others who have been offended or exploited by the church, remarks that some Catholics hailed as a breakthrough in the church's tone toward homosexuality.
"I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally," Francis said at a press conference aboard the papal plane returning from Armenia.
"The Church must ask forgiveness for not behaving many times -- when I say the Church, I mean Christians! The Church is holy, we are sinners!"

As he often does during unscripted moments -- particularly papal news conferences -- the Pope spoke expansively, saying the church should seek forgiveness for a number of historical slights committed in its name.

Groundbreaking Moment
"I believe that the church not only should apologize to the person who is gay whom it has offended," he added, "but has to apologize to the poor, to exploited women, to children exploited for labor; it has to ask forgiveness for having blessed many weapons."
The Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor at large of America magazine, called the Pope's apology to gays and lesbians "a groundbreaking moment."
"While St. John Paul II apologized to several groups in 2000 -- the Jewish people, indigenous peoples, immigrants and women, among them -- no pope has ever come close to apologizing to the LGBT community. And the Pope is correct of course. First, because forgiveness is an essential part of the Christian life. And second, because no group feels more marginalized in the church today than LGBT people."
The Pope's comments came in response to a question about a German Cardinal who said the Catholic Church should apologize for being "very negative" about gays. The Pope was also asked whether Christians bear some blame for hatred toward the LGBT community, as horrifically demonstrated in the Orlando massacre at a gay night club that killed 49 people on June 12.
Repeating the teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church about respecting and not discriminating against gays, Pope Francis said that one could condemn certain behavior.
"One can condemn, but not for theological reasons, but for reasons of political behavior...Certain manifestations are a bit too offensive for others, no?
"But these are things that have nothing to do with the problem. The problem is a person that has a condition, that has good will and who seeks God, who are we to judge? And we must accompany them well."

'Immense Blessing'
Francis first uttered that rhetorical question -- Who am I to judge gay people? -- in 2013, also during a news conference on the papal plane. His comments were hailed as a breakthrough for a church that has historically condemned homosexuality, often in harsh terms. Francis has not changed church doctrine that calls homosexual acts sinful, but he has shown a more merciful approach to people on the margins, including gays and lesbians.
Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, a Catholic gay rights group, called the Pope's remarks "an immense blessing of healing."
"No pope has said more welcoming words to LGBT people than when Pope Francis today offered his recommendation that the Church -- indeed all Christians -- should apologize for the harm religious traditions have caused to LGBT people. The pope's statement was simple, yet powerful, and it fell from his lips so easily."
As is often the case, the Pope's press conference encompassed a number of controversial questions. Here are the Pope's answers about Brexit, former Pope Benedict XVI and why he used the word "genocide" to describe the murder of more than 1 million Armenians in the early 20th century.

Brexit
"For me, unity is always superior to conflict, but there are different forms of unity and also brotherhood. and here I come to the EU -- brotherhood is better than enmity or distance and bridges are better than walls.
"The step which the EU has to take to recover the strength of its roots is a step of creativity and healthy 'separation;' that is, to give more independence, more freedom to the countries of the EU, to think of another form of union, to be creative in jobs, in the economy..."
"There is something that is not working in that unwieldy union, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, let's try to jump-start things, to recreate .. today the two key words for the EU are creativity and fecundity."

Genocide
Pope Francis said that while Turkey has, "a right to protest," he has always used the word genocide, since his time in Argentina, and again last year quoting John Paul II so "it would have sounded very strange," he said, not to use it again.
"In Argentina, when you spoke about the extermination of Armenians, one always used the word genocide. I did not know another word ... When I came to Rome, I heard the other words, 'The Great Evil' and the Armenian term which I do not know how to say, and they told me that ... using 'genocide' is offensive, that you have to say something else. I have also spoken about three genocides of the last century, always three, first the Armenian, then Hitler, and the last one is Stalin."
"After I heard the tone of the President's speech and also with my past with this word, which I uttered last year in St. Peter's publicly, it would have sounded very strange not to say the same word."

Two Popes?
In response to a question about whether there are two Popes in the Vatican, a story which had received headlines recently because of a comment by Pope Benedict's personal secretary who said that the Pope Emeritus was part of an "expanded papacy," Francis said, "There is only one Pope."
"[Benedict] is the Pope Emeritus, the wise grandpa. He is the man who guards my back with his prayers."


Pope Francis continues to surprise, and in a good way. I really hope that he sticks around for a good, long time.

 Ouze wrote:

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Tornado Alley

All good things. Don't condemn, treat with respect, as an Athieist even I can get behind his statements. progressive thinking is what will help heal wounds.

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Yep, best pope evah for loads of reasons, though imho the bar wasn't especially high.
   
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Hitler youth anyone?

Well, this pope has still praised bishops for the way they handled child molestation by clergy. And he still hasn't done anything to stop the vatican and more local church authorities from shielding suspects in criminal investigations.. Not to mention, the catholic church still supports HIV over condoms, and severe birth defects over birth control.


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Your message then is we should ignore all the good he has done so far because he hasn't yet done all the good he might eventually do.

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"If something isn't perfect, it's worthless", is a common line of thinking that gets us nowhere.

Good on this guy for trying to steer the Church away from Irrelevance Rocks.

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This pope is like a real life superman. He's making serious impacts, and all for the better. He really is a top quality man; possibly the best a man can strive to be. Very impressed with him and all he's done.

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Yep. Change does not happen over night. The FFRF is a bit overly critical of all religion, and I do not blame them, but in this case, a journey of several miles begins with one step.

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As a public figure steering a large organization with lots of social and political influence, I generally think the Pope has clearly been moving it in a better direction. Given his statements have been far more radical and forward-thinking than I'd expect from any leader in an organization as entrenched and conservative as the Catholic church I'd say the man is due some credit. That he hasn't departed from every single policy the organization holds that I disagree with doesn't really change that. The world is going to have a Pope and as Popes go, I really quite like this one.
   
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It seems to an outsider like me that the Catholic Church (which I view in much the same way as South Park does) tends to lag about 2 centuries behind the civilised world in just about everything. When we get a pope like this that clearly is really, really trying to drag them forward, I think he deserves some credit.

The list of people they need to apologise to for much they have done and in some ways continue to do is, well, everyone, but it's a start.
   
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 Darkjim wrote:
It seems to an outsider like me that the Catholic Church (which I view in much the same way as South Park does) tends to lag about 2 centuries behind the civilised world in just about everything. When we get a pope like this that clearly is really, really trying to drag them forward, I think he deserves some credit.

The list of people they need to apologise to for much they have done and in some ways continue to do is, well, everyone, but it's a start.


Eh... I'd put it more like 50 years behind.

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I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 19:52:36


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OgreChubbs wrote:
I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.


He is kind of a heretic... But the Church, at least the monolithic Catholic Church, really hasn't done a whole lot of good. There is a certain irony when the church is much less tolerant than everyone else.

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OgreChubbs wrote:
I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.


I am pretty sure he does, just because he admits that the Church made mistakes (and lets face it there were and are a lot of them) doesn't make him bad or the "anti-christ"

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So... now the most important question:
What should you do if you are both christian and homosexual?

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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 20:58:12


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 Iron_Captain wrote:
So... now the most important question:
What should you do if you are both christian and homosexual?


Go to church, then go to an Adam Lambert concert??

As Frazz eluded to with the Epsicopaleons, there is no shortage of Christian churches that are just fine with homosexuals, at least in the USA.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 20:59:58


 
   
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Plus Bourbon. What will you find if you see four Episcopalians together? A fifth!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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 Iron_Captain wrote:
So... now the most important question:
What should you do if you are both christian and homosexual?


Catholic or Protestant Christian? The Pope can only speak for the Catholic Church.

Regardless of what sect of Christianity you observe, if you sincerely want to be a devout Christian than your clergy, on all levels, should welcome you and minister to you in ways that help you live a Christian life. I suppose being a homosexual Christian would require more praying/confessing/atoning than otherwise but then again part of being a devout Christian, of any sect, is to acknowledge that you're a sinner so I guess it wouldn't really be that different for homosexuals.

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Also Unitary church and the Methodists IIRC. There are some evangelical churches as well but I am not as tuned into there.

Episcopalians, we'd burn you at the stake like the good old days, but we've got a 2.00 o'clock Tee Time so can it wait?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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Prestor Jon wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
So... now the most important question:
What should you do if you are both christian and homosexual?


Catholic or Protestant Christian? The Pope can only speak for the Catholic Church.

Regardless of what sect of Christianity you observe, if you sincerely want to be a devout Christian than your clergy, on all levels, should welcome you and minister to you in ways that help you live a Christian life. I suppose being a homosexual Christian would require more praying/confessing/atoning than otherwise but then again part of being a devout Christian, of any sect, is to acknowledge that you're a sinner so I guess it wouldn't really be that different for homosexuals.


And also, some churches no longer consider homosexual activities to be sinful to begin with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Frazzled wrote:
Also Unitary church and the Methodists IIRC. There are some evangelical churches as well but I am not as tuned into there.

Episcopalians, we'd burn you at the stake like the good old days, but we've got a 2.00 o'clock Tee Time so can it wait?


My neighbor goes to an Evangelical church with a Lesbian preacher (or whatever Evangelical's call their priests). I think Evangelicals are way too diverse to nail down to one set of issues. IME, anyways.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 21:09:15


 
   
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Isn't it considered heretical within the catholic church to say you hate the pope?

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 Tactical_Spam wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:
I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.


He is kind of a heretic... But the Church, at least the monolithic Catholic Church, really hasn't done a whole lot of good. There is a certain irony when the church is much less tolerant than everyone else.


Do, uh.

Do you mean the Pope?
   
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Leerstetten, Germany

OgreChubbs wrote:
I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.


He constantly talks about the good that the church does, what are you even talking about?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
So... now the most important question:
What should you do if you are both christian and homosexual?


You probably do the same thing you do is you are both a Christian and an [insert any other behavior you/others might think is a sin].

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 21:55:27


 
   
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 Kilkrazy wrote:
Your message then is we should ignore all the good he has done so far because he hasn't yet done all the good he might eventually do.


Well, my message is more like, he isn't as bad as the last guy, but that is like comparing pencil lead's color to charcoals. Keep in mind this guy is head of an organization that does some pretty evil things. Keep in mind, he publically Congratulated bishops for how well they handled the issues of systematic child rape. Keep in mind, the vatican, an organization he is the head of, refuses to hand over people who have committed serious crimes in their home countries.

What he is doing is equivalent to apologizing to a native american after supervising the spread of smallpox.

 Spinner wrote:
 Tactical_Spam wrote:
OgreChubbs wrote:
I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.


He is kind of a heretic... But the Church, at least the monolithic Catholic Church, really hasn't done a whole lot of good. There is a certain irony when the church is much less tolerant than everyone else.


Do, uh.

Do you mean the Pope?


Protestant vs Catholic behavior, be glad you aren't in ireland a few decades ago.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/28 22:02:12


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Some public Catholics in the Catholic Church don't take the Pope seriously on this issue:

Spoiler:

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/29 10:41:22


 
   
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OK, so after watching this video, seems to me that This person would rather spend time holding a certain group down, then helping all fellow humans up.This goes directly against the popes guidance. Unfortunately this will probably be the attitude of a large number and not just an isolated few.

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To be fair, Bill Donahue is a notorious blowhard with a peculiar obsession with homosexuality and a long history of trying to be 'more Catholic than the Pope'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/29 13:41:57


 
   
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 jasper76 wrote:
To be fair, Bill Donahue is a notorious blowhard with a peculiar obsession with homosexuality and a long history of trying to be 'more Catholic than the Pope'.


This.

I thought I recognised him/his attitude and I finally realised from where. He was parodied in the South Park episode "Fantastic Easter Special"

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OgreChubbs wrote:
I still dont like him and never will. He is the churches obama, sorry you are mad at us sorry sorry our bad..... God forbid he mentions any of the good the church did ...ever... God I hate him.


Good, good... Let the hate flow through you #darkside

I think this is yet another step forward for the church, it's too bad people are against admitting it's done some pretty horrible things to ensure its dominance.
   
 
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