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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

I've been painting primaris marines the past few days and I've been experiencing an odd effect. I'll admit I'm past the half way mark regarding age but to be honest, I don't think this is an eye problem.
Anyway the problem seems to centre around one paint, no others cause this problem. I've been painting with Scale 75 Tesla Blue, which is a very good deep(not dark) rich blue, and is very matt when it dries.

The problem is that I can't see anything, my eyes just can't define detail on the painted areas. Before anyone suggests thick paint, Scale 75 is very very thin and a pig to use because of this, I used three coats. When it came to highlighting, my eyes couldn't resolve the blue to the point I couldn't the see edges of the various plating of armour and I had to work on a hit and miss approach to applying the lighter highlights. My eyesight is generally good, and I paint at close range yet this blue thwarted me at every attempt! I've looked at a lot of my models that have blue on them yet no other blue has played tricks on my eyes like Tesla blue!

Now that I've got the highlights on the blue seems to have calmed a bit and my eyes can now resolve the Tesla blue, but at one point I was seriously thinking of stripping them down and painting them in another colour, because frankly, I thought something was wrong with my eyesight and that scared the hell out of me!
So in conclusion, I can only think that the very matt finish had an adverse effect on my eyesight.

I would be grateful to hear of anyone else encountering this could respond with their views or insights, as this past week has been a very confusing and scary time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 16:46:46


 
   
Made in gb
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws





Cloud City, Bespin

If the paint dry matt it could be that the pigment is absorbing the light.

I have a black by deco arts that is dry dusty black, in the sun there is a sort of rainbow flair on ther surface, its quite weird to describe but it also it hides any detail making it Impossible to define.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Straight out if the pot, bang it on. What else is there to know?
 DV8 wrote:
Blood Angels Furioso Dreadnought should also be double-fisted.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

That is very similar to what I'm experiencing, Kind of like you know it's there but your eyes are not really convinced and keep trying to re-focus on it!

 
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





Not something I've ever noticed.

From memory the human eye does struggle to perceive blue more than other colours due to the way the rods and cones are setup. The red and green receptors overlap a lot, but the blue receptors don't, also I think there's less blue receptors from memory? Basically the eye prioritises red and green perception over blue for some reason.

That said, it's not something I've really noticed when painting. I've usually found blue things easier to paint, not for any visual reason but I think blue paints often have nicer pigments that cover better and are easier to blend.

 Rybrook wrote:
If the paint dry matt it could be that the pigment is absorbing the light.
Matt paints scatter light rather than absorbing it. Light absorption is what gives you the colour itself (e.g. blue absorbs all wavelengths of light that aren't blue).

Though I have noticed some dark blues that swing slightly to the purple side can have a really subtle colour shifting effect. GW's old midnight blue used to do that, at least to my eye (I don't think it or an equivalent still exists in the GW range).


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/28 19:51:22


 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







Where i used to live, one of the streets had decorative blue lighting. I found that I had.diffoculty focussing properly on the blue lights. They were always blurry, even though everything else nearby would be pin sharp. I think you may just have found the right shade to prevent human eyes resolving the object properly

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

I just did a test on a backpack, and I still can't get my eyes to focus! I'm not sure I want to paint anymore models with this colour, plenty of tidying up to do because I couldn't see the edges very well to add the highlights!

 
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





Los Angeles, CA, USA

A quick and light dry brush might help to see the details?
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





Ireland

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
From memory the human eye does struggle to perceive blue more than other colours due to the way the rods and cones are setup. The red and green receptors overlap a lot, but the blue receptors don't, also I think there's less blue receptors from memory? Basically the eye prioritises red and green perception over blue for some reason.

There are far fewer blue cones (~10%) compared to red (~60%) and green cones (~30%) but the difficulty with focusing on blue light isn’t due to the lack of blue cones but due to the short wavelength of blue light. This means that any scatter has much larger effect than with longer wavelengths, so for a lot of people pure blue light can be hard to focus on.
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Horla wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
From memory the human eye does struggle to perceive blue more than other colours due to the way the rods and cones are setup. The red and green receptors overlap a lot, but the blue receptors don't, also I think there's less blue receptors from memory? Basically the eye prioritises red and green perception over blue for some reason.

There are far fewer blue cones (~10%) compared to red (~60%) and green cones (~30%) but the difficulty with focusing on blue light isn’t due to the lack of blue cones but due to the short wavelength of blue light. This means that any scatter has much larger effect than with longer wavelengths, so for a lot of people pure blue light can be hard to focus on.


Doesn't blue light turn more through a lens, so therefore your eye muscles would be more relaxed when focusing blue light and thus be less difficult to focus?

Either way, it does seem like the human eye prioritises green and red, other animals have green receptors that sit midway between red and blue in their sensitivity, but humans it biases more toward the red than the blue and it's that overlap that lets people distinguish colours (it's not so much the light blue receptors that let you perceive variances in blue, but rather the difference between the blue receptors and the green receptors). So if you're struggling to pick up on the edges (which are slightly brighter due to the light hitting and reflecting more off them) that may be why.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/31 09:19:11


 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut





Ireland

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Horla wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
From memory the human eye does struggle to perceive blue more than other colours due to the way the rods and cones are setup. The red and green receptors overlap a lot, but the blue receptors don't, also I think there's less blue receptors from memory? Basically the eye prioritises red and green perception over blue for some reason.

There are far fewer blue cones (~10%) compared to red (~60%) and green cones (~30%) but the difficulty with focusing on blue light isn’t due to the lack of blue cones but due to the short wavelength of blue light. This means that any scatter has much larger effect than with longer wavelengths, so for a lot of people pure blue light can be hard to focus on.


Doesn't blue light turn more through a lens, so therefore your eye muscles would be more relaxed when focusing blue light and thus be less difficult to focus?

Either way, it does seem like the human eye prioritises green and red, other animals have green receptors that sit midway between red and blue in their sensitivity, but humans it biases more toward the red than the blue and it's that overlap that lets people distinguish colours (it's not so much the light blue receptors that let you perceive variances in blue, but rather the difference between the blue receptors and the green receptors). So if you're struggling to pick up on the edges (which are slightly brighter due to the light hitting and reflecting more off them) that may be why.

How do you mean “turn more through a lens”? In any case, although visual acuity does rely on the muscles providing the focus, scatter in the blue range of the spectrum is still causing considerable loss of acuity. The blue end of the spectrum (short wavelength, high frequency) is more readily likely to interact with any particles between the source and the fovea (where the rods cones are concentrated) compared to longer wavelengths. It’s a well known effect.

Also, from an evolutionary perspective, blue cones are relatively recent as there was no selection pressure for accurate detection of blue light - nearly everything in nature that we interact with is a combination of red and green so that is prioritised. For example, mice only have red and green cones and cannot distinguish between some wavelengths of light. You can knock in the human genes for blue cones and they can then distinguish between colours similar to the average human. And there’s not just one gene for each, there are variants so that my red cones might be “tuned” to a slightly higher or lower wavelength than yours, and some women can have an extra allele that gives them to see an even finer breakdown of the visual spectrum (tetrachromatic vision).
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Can you post some pictures of the model you are painting?

In the past, when I was working with a purple-over-brown gradient, I've noticed that the purple paint really needed sunlight in order to see the purple-ness. It could be that you may need better light source to see the paint pop.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/31 15:47:07


 
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob




Cary, NC

 skchsan wrote:
Can you post some pictures of the model you are painting?

In the past, when I was working with a purple-over-brown gradient, I've noticed that the purple paint really needed sunlight in order to see the purple-ness. It could be that you may need better light source to see the paint pop.



Echoing this comment, maybe that particular blue is not working well with whatever light source you are using. You may need to try a daylight bulb, or a warmer, or colder color light to make it easier to resolve. Using a different (or supplemental) light source may be a better solution than tossing your color scheme!

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

The camera made them lighter, more deeper in reality!
 Filename S1051235.JPG [Disk] Download
 Description
 File size 2466 Kbytes

[Thumb - S1051239.JPG]

[Thumb - S1051240.JPG]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 16:54:53


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Scotland

I've highlighted since the original post so the effect is diminished. P.S. Tesla Blue is much deeper than ultramarine!
What was happening was when the model had been basecoated all the joints were impossible to separate visually, it was only when I added black lining to these areas(that was fun believe me) that my eyes could start to make sense.
As I mentioned above my camera has decided that the colour is Ultramarine blue, it is not, but more a deeper richer blue (not dark, if that makes any sense).
P.S. I'm not good with cameras!
[Thumb - S1051242.JPG]

[Thumb - S1051241.JPG]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/02 17:37:11


 
   
Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






Well, great job, at least!

This reminds me. About half a decade ago, there was this dress that made the internets as to what color it was, and, yep, blue was one of the colors.

This May Be Why You’re Seeing the Dress as White and Gold

"However, the actual physiology of your eye might come into play with how you perceive the dress. According to Neitz, an individual’s lens, which is part of the eyeball, changes over the course of one’s lifespan. Individuals are less sensitive to blue light when they are older. Which could explain why older netizens are seeing white and gold. But, in the absence of hard-core data relating to age and perceptions regarding the dress, this theory cannot be proved yet."

Rest of the article, though, suggests you *should* be seeing blue, though.

Spoiler:


https://time.com/3725528/dress-explainer-white-gold-blue-black-science/



Crimson Scales and Wildspire Miniatures thread on Reaper! : https://forum.reapermini.com/index.php?/topic/103935-wildspire-miniatures-thread/ 
   
 
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