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Also, remember that 15mm metal figures are almost always quite heroic in proportions. Simply to make the figure sturdy they end up quite chunky. A non-heroic 15mm figure in a flight suit would be dramatically slimmer than most folks' 15mm troop miniatures.

Here's a pic of Some CAV's next to 15mm GZG troops. Not my pics.

More pics here:
http://s732.photobucket.com/user/doublesix66/library/CAV%20COMBAT%20ASSAULT%20VECHILES?sort=2&page=1

Are there other photos of the voodoo? It looks more like a drone than a mech, which would be a good thing.

this is the (metal) voodoo as shown on the reaper site

Looks roboty enough. Thanks for the pic!

Sean_OBrien wrote:If you are using 1/100 scale vehicles (as many do) for 15mm - you might be surprised at how many of them would be sized about right. They might not look like they could hold a 15mm figure...but that is a different issue.

I think I might be being too picky.

Eilif wrote:Also, remember that 15mm metal figures are almost always quite heroic in proportions. Simply to make the figure sturdy they end up quite chunky. A non-heroic 15mm figure in a flight suit would be dramatically slimmer than most folks' 15mm troop miniatures.

Most of my 15mm sci-fi comes from Khurasan and a bit from Rebel and they might be a bit bigger than GZG. I'll have to pull them out and put them by my metal CAV stuff and take a closer look

Here's a pic of Some CAV's next to 15mm GZG troops. Not my pics

I think I may have just gotten prejudiced by using my CAV stuff with Battletech and thinking they're appropriate for that scale.



I'm loving the amount of non-mechs they're making.

What scale is Cav? 6mm?

Has anyone played the game and did they like the original rules?

Are there any other stand alone rulesets for robot games that would work if these don't turn out well?

Theoretically - N-Scale.

Nominally - 10mm.

Flexibly 6-20mm (depending on figure).

Played 1st and 2nd - pretty good game. Fast and simple enough to pick up without having to study the books.

Lots of independent mech games, as well as alternative mech games (Battletech being one of the larger ones).

 Cryptek of Awesome wrote:
What scale is Cav? 6mm?

Here's somethign I posted elsewhere:

CAV's were designed (I have this from the sculptor John Bear Ross) at 1/160, which is the same as Mechwarrior.  Oddly, Reaper now says that this version of CAV is officially 1/180 and 10mm ( ??) despite using many of the original sculpts with no modifications, though a few are reportedly being resized.

The issue in comparing them is that Battlemechs are just larger than CAV's in general.  This evening I took the measurements of some of my mechwarrior clix minis (10mm minis)and the larger CAV's scaled up as light or small medium mechs,with the smallest being smaller than most any Mechwarrior minis. The small and medium sized cavs scale up better with 1/300 scale Battletech miniatures.  

All this to say, that many (perhaps most) CAV's could be used with Battletech.

 Cryptek of Awesome wrote:

Has anyone played the game and did they like the original rules?

Are there any other stand alone rulesets for robot games that would work if these don't turn out well?

I have the CAV 1 rules and sourcebooks and it looks cool, but I've not played them. They're still avaiable from Troll and Toad for about $8 each. The CAV 2 rules are still for download somewhere on the Reaper website. CAV:SO rules should be out to backers soon.

As for other games, Mine will probably get used along side my rebased mechwarrior minis in games of Mech Attack ( http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=3148&products_id=79303 ) It's a great game with alot of battletech'ish elements in a much more streamlined and fast playing package. Works best with about 5-10 units per side. For Larger battles, we use Battletech's "Alpha Strike" rules for larger fast playing games on 3d terrain. Also the club sometimes uses the free ruleset Panzer 8 ( http://panzer8.weebly.com ) for large combined arms games which is a ridiculously streamlined 2 page ruleset for large scale battles with small scale minis.

There will be an Osprey Wargames title called Horizon Wars some time in the future as well. I've heard only good things about Mech Attack, but haven't played it yet.

My go to mech rules are either Battletech/Alpha Strike when I'm specifically meeting up with local BT people and Mekton Zeta when I'm hosting a game.

Mekton was a mecha RPG with a very expansive mech design system published in the 80s through the mid 90s. It's still available in PDF form and used print copies abound. If you just make the RPG stuff fade into the background and concentrate on mech combat, it makes a great miniature wargaming.

There's probably another 20-100 cheap and free mech games you could get your hands on, but people tend to recommend their favorites

---

 Eilif wrote:

CAV's were designed (I have this from the sculptor John Bear Ross) at 1/160, which is the same as Mechwarrior.  Oddly, Reaper now says that this version of CAV is officially 1/180 and 10mm ( ??) despite using many of the original sculpts with no modifications, though a few are reportedly being resized.

One of the benefits of things like CAV...there isn't anything to scale them against to see how accurately scaled they are.

Like I said though - to check to see if it is compatible with other miniatures, I will normally look at things like the cockpits, doors and other parts which do have a real world analog. A lot of these sorts of miniatures (not just Reaper's CAV figures) are flexible enough that you can use them in a pretty broad range of scales.

The regular vehicles of course start to get a bit more specific (but even there - many could pass for vehicles in the 1/240 - 1/100 range) and then of course the infantry figures (not sure if they will look at making those in Bones...small figures are still pretty economical in metal) are around 10mm to the tops of their heads (which I would guess is where they came up with the 1/180 from...).

Part of that just goes to interpretation of the design. Something like an aircraft style cockpit in 1/180 scale might be comparable to an A-6 Intruder, with side by side seating. For 1/100 scale, that same vehicle now becomes a single pilot or tandem seating arrangement with the gunner behind the pilot (depending on flavor of the game system). In 1/300 scale - that is now a spacious cockpit like you might find on a B-36 with a pilot, co-pilot, communications and weapons officer sitting around playing cards.

Definitely looking at the Simba to either be a mobile weapons platform or some sort of Mule type robot for larger scales too. It is a big one (about 2 inches tall) and I have one in metal that I liked, but at $25 a pop...they were not something that I was willing to pick up a half dozen or so to chop up and make drones out of. Once it is out in Bones though - I will probably be buying them in 12 packs so that I can bundle them into my sci-fi/ultra-modern armies...even if for no other reason than they look cool.

That Simba is brilliant for any scale. I'm also starting to think about buying some like the raptor and the reaper to use as gun ships...once I remove their legs.

The main pledge has far too many duds for my taste, but if the retail price is similar to the KS price I'll be a huge supporter of the CAV line when it comes out.

Think there is a lot of good fodder throughout.

Stuff like the gun from the Wardens should work quite well as heavy weapons for large scale infantry. Some of the missile pods for use as "cyclone style" mini missiles on power armor. Big guns from the Emperor as smaller vehicle mounted weapons for some high tech sentinel type walkers. The weapons from the Reaper keep telling me they are jet packs...

 Sean_OBrien wrote:
[
One of the benefits of things like CAV...there isn't anything to scale them against to see how accurately scaled they are.

The regular vehicles of course start to get a bit more specific (but even there - many could pass for vehicles in the 1/240 - 1/100 range) and then of course the infantry figures (not sure if they will look at making those in Bones...small figures are still pretty economical in metal) are around 10mm to the tops of their heads (which I would guess is where they came up with the 1/180 from...).

The minis are definitely flexible. Most of the mechs are as usable in 6mm (1/300 or 1/285 depending on company) as they are in 10mm (1/160). Many could also serve in 15mm (1/100), though some off the smallest would be unmanned (see the earlier post with 15mm GZG minis).

I would caution about the vehicles though as the range you're suggesting may be a bit too optimistic. The'yre good in 10mm, and in 6mm, though a bit large. Going to 15mm is going to be something of a stretch for all but the biggest vehicles. They just aren't quite that big. It's the same with the Mechwarrior clix 10mm stuff. All but the biggest vehicles (1/100) look pretty small next to 15mm figs. Luckily there's many other fine makers of appropriately sized 15mm vehicles.

So with $123K hit, we now see that the core set vehicles will also be purchasable as add ons. I'm definitely going in on this with a gaming buddy now that I can just get some plastic vehicles for a couple dollars a piece.

The $181K stretch goal is more of the same. Mech + 2 x vehicle added to core pledge, another mech and 2 x vehicle for add on.

Rules pdf and a quick demo video are up for viewing in the latest update (#15).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-cav-strike-operations/posts/984161

 Eilif wrote:
I would caution about the vehicles though as the range you're suggesting may be a bit too optimistic. The'yre good in 10mm, and in 6mm, though a bit large. Going to 15mm is going to be something of a stretch for all but the biggest vehicles. They just aren't quite that big. It's the same with the Mechwarrior clix 10mm stuff. All but the biggest vehicles (1/100) look pretty small next to 15mm figs. Luckily there's many other fine makers of appropriately sized 15mm vehicles.

I would agree in large part - but again, it all depends on how you are using them.

I made a couple of single person walking tank things out of Recluses for 1/48 scale (scales out to almost be the size of a VW Bug - heavily modified cockpit area). The Hedgehog is a pretty good matchup for real world transport helicopters like the Blackhawk. The Hedge Hog is right at 3" long while the body of a Blackhawk is 30 feet or so at 1/100 scale, it actually ends up matching up fairly close. The doors are not too far off from the size of the black hawk doors either at that size.

Tanks...sure, there you will run into issues faster.


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 Brasidas wrote:
Rules pdf and a quick demo video are up for viewing in the latest update (#15).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-miniatures-cav-strike-operations/posts/984161

Much less of a set of quickstart rules and more a working draft of the core rules. The verbiage seems to be throwing some people off on it.

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
I would caution about the vehicles though as the range you're suggesting may be a bit too optimistic. The'yre good in 10mm, and in 6mm, though a bit large. Going to 15mm is going to be something of a stretch for all but the biggest vehicles. They just aren't quite that big. It's the same with the Mechwarrior clix 10mm stuff. All but the biggest vehicles (1/100) look pretty small next to 15mm figs. Luckily there's many other fine makers of appropriately sized 15mm vehicles.

I would agree in large part - but again, it all depends on how you are using them.

I made a couple of single person walking tank things out of Recluses for 1/48 scale (scales out to almost be the size of a VW Bug - heavily modified cockpit area). The Hedgehog is a pretty good matchup for real world transport helicopters like the Blackhawk. The Hedge Hog is right at 3" long while the body of a Blackhawk is 30 feet or so at 1/100 scale, it actually ends up matching up fairly close. The doors are not too far off from the size of the black hawk doors either at that size.

Tanks...sure, there you will run into issues faster.

By "Vehicles" I was referring to ground vehicles. I could be wrong, but I really don't think they're going to work for manned vehicles in 10mm.

As for CAV's The largest of the range could probably be a manned vehicle, but otherwise, CAV's in 15mm are going to be mostly autonomous combat units. Which is actually a pretty cool use for them. Tomorrow's war and (IIRC) Gruntz both make use of such units. The issue is mostly cockpit sizes. You run into a similar thing with Mechwarrior clix figures which tend to be bigger than CAV's but even then, it's really only the largest that have big enough cockpits or large enough torso's to conceivably hold a 15mm person along with engine, etc.

I was expecting something far more simple for the quick start. The rules are definitely more of a full version draft.

They use a scatter method I've been using in my 28mm skirmish for quite some time. d10 gives both the distance and points the direction because of the shape of the die.

I think this thing is going to finish nicely in the high 200s and give a good selection of mechs and vehicles for the game. Hopefully some infantry get done along the way. And maybe a smaller flying craft. If I got to choose though, it would be a true scale Czar:

more mecha more vehicles

I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.

 Catyrpelius wrote:
I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.

What would it take to get you excited?

Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.

 Eilif wrote:
Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.

So next stretch goal since we are at the 49 unit mark, next one puts it at 52.

 Dark Severance wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Honestly, I've pledged, but I'm facing the same thing, I have a feeling though that I will be really stoked about this KS once it passes the 50 unit mark.

So next stretch goal since we are at the 49 unit mark, next one puts it at 52.

Probably...

The thing is that my 10mm armies are made mostly of mechwarrior clix, mostly bought in lots and rebased. I'm used to paying a buck or less (sometimes much less) per unit on average. I realize that these are new models, multipart, and probably better in quality, but in the back of my mind, that's the computation that's going on. It's a matter of "are these a good enough deal to drop $100 bucks on when I could probably use the $ elsewhere and i've already a complete army and another army's worth of 10mm sci-fi units that need to be painted.

Not a situation that everyone's going to necessarily relate to, but that's how I'm approaching this KS. If we get 75 units in the core set by the time this thing wraps up, It'll probably be a no-brainer to stay in. However, less than that and I'll strongly consider dropping out. I can always buy them piecemeal from my FLGS and then I can be absolutely sure they are the ones I want and at a size and quantity that will meet what I need to best complement the units I already have.

I'm in the same boat as Eilif on this one. The rules do look neat, but I have boxes of MechWarrior figures that are already painted and ready to blow stuff up. I don't have too many dupes of figures, so if CAV armies tend to have multiples of vehicles and mechs, I may need to restock some of my MechWarrior units (if I can - specific figures aren't that easy to find any more!), but I don't really see myself going too big in on this one. Just picking up some vehicles here and there.

In the end, I decided not to go in with a friend on this one. I recently adopted a policy of not getting stuff for a scale/period/topic until everything I have for it is painted and I still have 10+ mechs, 20 or so vehicles and a ton of infantry for 6mm sci-fi to paint. I know CAV is ostensibly 10mm, but I'd be using it for BT with the rest of my 6mm stuff, so it counts I also have some 15mm sci-fi to paint and my other possible usage of some of the miniatures was to use as 15mm power armour or robots.

I have a couple local stores that deal directly with Reaper as a supplier and I like the idea of being able to tell potential new Alpha Strike/BT players to just grab/order in 4 or 5 CAV mechs they think are cool and we'll figure out stats for them. I'm also planning on getting some vehicles once they are available and I'm caught up on my BT painting, so I am glad this KS is funded and the product line is being developed for retail again.

I ended up dropping this earlier today. I never got excited about what was to come and realized it would just end up being another box in the closet.

Well, they're still at least net positive for today.



I'm not particularly intrigued by any of the mech designs as I wasn't a fan of the aesthetic 15 years ago and still am not today with these seemingly largely unchanged models. Are any of them new for those more familiar with them? Some of the conventional vehicle designs though do look nice and/or unique.

The new ones are the CGI ones. So far: Imperator, Kraken, Reaper, Raijin

 Catyrpelius wrote:
I'm having a really hard time getting excited for this... This kind of suprises me as I've always wanted to give CAV a go. They need to do something to drum up some excitment.

Some scale terrain in bonesium would be cool.

Somewhat related, Miniature Market's Daily Deal today is the BattleTech RPG: 25th Anniversary Introductory Box Set, for $30. Free shipping at $100 of stuff: http://www.miniaturemarket.com/cat3500b.html