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 cincydooley wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:


I'm not sure the costs to produce a mold the size malifaux uses I've heard numbers from 5k to 30k (wide price range there) but would love to see the day where large KS would opt for HIPs plastic as the material of choice, if possible.

It still has to be done well. Shadows of Brimstone opted for HIPS and they look like crap.

Simply being in HIPS doesn't automatically mean it's going to be a quality miniature.

Flying Frog is not exactly the best example to use when talking about the quality you can get with HIPs, but the plastic Flying Frog used is not the same as Wyrd or GW, it is a lot more flexible than those two but not as much as say a PVC model.

I bending one of the spiders legs right now at a 45 degree angle and it is not snapping, if it were the same material as GW or Wyrd it should have snapped.

Some of the models came out pretty good other suffered from terrible sculpting. Though the biggest problem is not the minis, it is a rules.

That said, everything flying frog does feels like dollar store quality. Worse board game company ever.

Do you wanna have the worse time of your life? Play fortune and glory.

You sit there and do nothing.

Leaving the rules aside (although I'd actually heard entirely positive things so far), the biggest problems with the Shadows of Brimstone models are 1) lack of sharp detail, and 2) the miniatures were obviously not originally designed for it, so suffer badly from the HIPS lack of undercuts and large gaps when assembled.

I imagine that mould cost is a factor for 1) - Lego and (to a lesser extent GW) pay a small fortune for their moulds because they are precision-engineered and time-consuming to machine. Planning & expertise were a factor for 2) - GW HIPS stuff was relatively static and flat for a long time, then had separate arms/legs for more dynamic posing, and is now really quite complex - the new Space Hulk stuff had me agog in terms of how it is planned on the sprue.

My point, if I have one, is that it's not as simple as saying that HIPS is a cure-all for model quality - it has plenty of limitations, not all of which are to do directly with the material. Pre-glued, single piece models in a board game make it so much more attractive for about 80% of the potential market, and are remarkably decent for hobby purposes.

So far PVC seems to shine for larger models, and be...not as good for 28mm 'man sized' stuff.

Once someone REALLY cracks that code, then PVC might be the wave of the future!

Nice post, Bioptic. I agree about pre-glued PVC being the best fit for board games, but on Dakka you've generally got a more wargaming focused audience who is willing to assemble models (and who care about their appearance more). That market is why we've also seen an explosion of small companies doing lower model count games in resin or even metal (Arena Rex, Guildball, Mecha Front, Mechadrome etc).

So SoB is HIPS? I thought it was PVC. Hmmm......




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As for crackign the code to make 28 mm models look good in PVC, that is goign to be a matter of sculpting the miniatures themselves differently. The methods for manufacture pretty much are what they need to be. There is a lot of skill and experience involved with the cutting of the tools and plannign of the tools which of course has a very profound effect ont he final quality, but as far as I understand there are just certain things that are just always goign to happen..Shrinkage and softening of edges etc. If the artist plans for those during the sculpting and tries to minimize the layers of detail then I think PVC can be a great medium for minis.

Minis without "layers of detail" at least . Sounds perfect for board games... but not the finest miniatures, and certainly not your detailed work Tre (imo, of course).

 Piston Honda wrote:
I'm not sure the costs to produce a mold the size malifaux uses I've heard numbers from 5k to 30k (wide price range there) but would love to see the day where large KS would opt for HIPs plastic as the material of choice, if possible.

Shieldwolf miniatures is planning to do exactly this with their KS, launching next month. And it is planned to be a large one, depending on the support it will have of course.

 Piston Honda wrote:


Do you wanna have the worse time of your life? Play fortune and glory.

You sit there and do nothing.

Oh gosh. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement!

FWIW, I've heard from a bird that Blood Rage has a very "Chaos in the Old Word Part 2" vibe to it. For anyone that's played Chaos in the Old World, you know that's a pretty generous comparison. Chaos is one of my absolute favorite multiplayer games, so if Blood Rage can even come close to that, it could be very good.

Didn't Eric Lang do Chaos in the Old World too?

I always thought Chaos would have looked spectacular with all the appropriate figures on the board.

Of course it would have needed a bigger board in order to accommodate everything, but that's what Cthulhu wars basically set out to do...

Serpent Clan Warrior

What happened to her left leg?

The axe head is resting on her boot is that what you mean?

She looks a bit like a dachshund. All back. Or not even that, it looks like the area between the navel and the groin is longer than the torso. Really weird proportions.

Well the fur pelt is obscuring the shape of the hip so that may be contributing to the " long back " look. The left leg does appear a little wonky at this angle but that coudl be purely the angle of the photo. Looks liek a great mini! Great design great sculpt!

 tre manor wrote:
Well the fur pelt is obscuring the shape of the hip so that may be contributing to the " long back " look. The left leg does appear a little wonky at this angle but that coudl be purely the angle of the photo. Looks liek a great mini! Great design great sculpt!

That is probably so. They shoul really take a photo from a different angle.

Fire Giant

Looks fine by me both mini's

The Serpent Clan figure is close to being great, it's a shame that the anatomy seems slightly "off", she does seem to be too thin and "stretched".

I wonder how good it will look after it is cast in PVC?

The Fire Giant is cool, but I think I would have preferred a version without the headgear.

The fire giant looks awesome.

I think the fire giant actually is the PvC version. Not 100%

Fire Giant sculpting blog is now up:

http://monster-zer0.blogspot.ie/2015/02/blood-rage-fire-giant.html

It's gonna be a tough call for me between this and the others. I like em both, but won't be able to afford both :/ I think I'm leaning more toward this though, because vikings.

I was mildly interested, not really sure if I was going to pay much attention to the KS and the game.

The, along came a loping, Aztec gorilla-giant and now I'm saving money to ensure I can make a purchase.

Same here - and IF I have to choose (and the Gaming Budget says that I probably will have to choose) I think I'm going with Blood Rage over The Others!

I'm waiting to see if they are still hitting my buttons when they finally make it to retail.

Plus, Studio McVey needs to prove itself again before I trust it.

So bear in mind the two games are VERY different. From what I've been told, Blood Rage is very much similar to Chaos in the Old World, meaning it's going to require more players than The Others will.

I mean, I'll be getting both, obviously, but I think it's important to point out that one is going to require more players to have fun with.

These are both retail projects, right? Not Kickstarter?

In that case, I may end up with both - rather than neither.

Both are kickstarter first retail later (confirmed on Facebook). Blood Rage February KS, The Others Q2

Euuugh. McVey and Kickstarter are a combination that leaves me cold.

I am sure that any mistakes made in the SW KS that were Mike's direct responsibilty have been learned from and wont be repeated. As much as I may have criticised the SW campaign ( MOSTLY because it did not expand the SW universe which I think is brilliant Science fiction ) I think McVey and CMoN and Guillotine make for a sure fire combination of skill, talent, and know how. Even if I do not think that original sculptures or resin masters are indicative of final plastic production figures.