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 Talys wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
All you need is a cheap little dropper to extract the paint from the jar. Or just carefully pour it into the brush's reservoir.

So to be clear, I'm 100% pro dropper when it comes to airbrush. But....

When I airbrush terrain or a large vehicle, I do *exactly* what GW suggests: after mixing non airbrush paint with thinner in a mixing bottle, I pour it into the airbrush cup, and when I'm done, if there's any left over, I pour it back. In this instance, the large neck of a mixing bottle is WAY easier than into a Vallejo dropper.

The problem is, 90% of the time, I want, like, 3 drops of paint. And then, I just say screw it if there is any left over; and just flush it.

I tend to just mix in the paint cup. Put in a few drops of thinner first then the paint (so you don't get unthinned paint down the passage) and then stir it with an old brush, backflow it a couple of times while mixing to avoid unmixed paint in the paint passage and then just spray for 1-2 seconds on a blank sheet before actually going to the model.

Mixing it in a separate cup just seems like a waste as a lot of it ends up on the sides. The only time I bother to mix it in a separate cup is for a *very* large vehicle like the 1/24 WW2 fighter I'm currently working on, because for that I'm using more paint than comfortably fits in my AB cup and I'm spraying for long enough on each colour that the paint separates before I'm done, so I mix up a big batch when I start and top up my AB as I go.

 Kepora wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
No dropper for an airbrush? nope nope nope nope nope.

I bet they are going to try to hawk a "new" siphon flamethrower that attaches to those pots. using Fine canned air. at 40 bucks a can.

Cynicism aside. im interested in the metallic as most AB metallic i know are FANTASTIC.

All you need is a cheap little dropper to extract the paint from the jar. Or just carefully pour it into the brush's reservoir.

Im aware of the dropper. its not my thing. i also end up mixing a LOT of in between colors with the previous ones so returning the paint back is useless (though very helpful from talys post)

Iv had bad accidents from pouring straight from the pot to cup.

Usually the issue is that little pallet thing on the underside of the cap that has a dollop of paint on it that if you dont notice will miss the cup right onto your pants :(

Never fun

4.25 in the US

Limited release to not many LGS, as I don't think many want to carry the rack, or had the money on a moments notice.

What?!! You're not seriously trying to tell us that 3rd parties weren't informed well in advance so they could manage inventory and cash flow to allow for investment in e new range, mik?

Never!

Limited release for paint is slowed.... What's someone to do once they run out, LOL.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:
What?!! You're not seriously trying to tell us that 3rd parties weren't informed well in advance so they could manage inventory and cash flow to allow for investment in e new range, mik?

Never!

To be fair, the cash flow really should not be an issue. 6-packs of paint are around $15 cost? Tines 51 is less than $800, and once people start painting an army with airbrush paints (land raiders, void ravens, etc) not to mention terrain pieces, they'll pop through those pots like they're going out of style.

The ratio of airbrush to regular paint I go through (for instance, if I'm lazy and just basecoat terrain with Vallejo model air) is nuts.

Never run a small business have you?

 Talys wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wha?

I use airbrush paints with a brush all the time, work fine.

Eh, aye, I specifically use airbrush paint for brush painting because it works better than thinned normal paint with brushes, particularly for glazing since the much finer pigment doesn't go "speckly" if you dilute them further. No idea what you're on about Talys.

Then... why does Vallejo sell Model Color and Game Color, and why are they better sellers than Model Air and Game Air?

If you are right and airbrush paints are just plain superior to nonairbrush formulations, the nonairbrush formulations should just stop selling. Among other things, Airbrush paints contain far less pigments and are cheaper to produce (just look at the prices of Airbrush thinners and mediums). So obviously, I'm not the only person in the world that buys nonairbrush paints

I challenge you to write fine, double-lined letters like this with a runny paint like Vallejo Air Black (this was a topic AllSeeingSkink made a while back) :

Spoiler:

But... I mean... guys, use what you want. I'm not trying to convert anyone; I'm trying to explain what I use and why. Whatever you're comfortable with and gets you the best results, that you enjoy -- that's what you should use.

Really? I have to manually add the implied "for me"'s and "IMO"'s to everything? Fine.

Eh, aye, I specifically use airbrush paint for brush painting because [FOR ME] it works better than thinned normal paint with brushes [IN MY OPINION], particularly for glazing since the much finer pigment doesn't go "speckly" if you dilute them further. No idea what you're on about Talys.

Evidently there are people who prefer working with thick paint(or specific instances or techniques where thicker paint is desirable), or who prefer starting from a thicker base and thinning manually, so it's hardly surprising that other ranges still exist. I'm going to want to see a source for this assertion there's less pigment in airbrush paints though, because I've literally never heard anyone say that before.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Talys wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Wha?

I use airbrush paints with a brush all the time, work fine.

Eh, aye, I specifically use airbrush paint for brush painting because it works better than thinned normal paint with brushes, particularly for glazing since the much finer pigment doesn't go "speckly" if you dilute them further. No idea what you're on about Talys.

Then... why does Vallejo sell Model Color and Game Color, and why are they better sellers than Model Air and Game Air?

To the former, in order to have variety, to the latter, because they are labelled "air" so most people don't even consider them for hairy brush painting

Though I do wonder if a lot of your dislike of hairy brush painting the air range comes from using a wet palette? I never try to use the air paints on a wet palette, always just do them on a regular dry palette, I could imagine the much thinner paints are more prone to separating from the binder on a wet palette.

That's not been my experience, I use a wet palette exclusively, and I've never had any brand of paint separate once it was already mixed and out of the bottle. Then again, I use agitators in all my paints so they're thoroughly mixed before I start working.

 Talys wrote:
I have every Vallejo airbrush paint and yet am super excited to see these. If the work unthinned on Iwata BH/CH size nozzles, they will replace 75% if my airbrush paint, even though I love Vallejo Air.

Why?

I HATE how many colors have no match between model color and model air (like, 75% of the colors). Like a particular shade of red or blue? Too bad the paintbrush version is just a little darker and has a different satin to the finish. There are a couple where paints have the same names, but the colors are different!!Game air/color is much better, but some some of those (like moon yellow) have insanely bad coverage. The other issue is that nobody local stocks game air, and I must sometimes wait 3+ weeks for it.

OTOH, I really prefer droppers fir airbrush.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, one other thing -- I was just told that the Vallejo distributor is no longer taking back defective paints, so if this happens, I must contact Vallejo myself. That's a huge turn-off, though I have only ever had 3 or 4 defective paints out of a few hundred.

Dude, if you think GW is going to not have discrepancies between their air and non air ranges, you're high. Vallejo Game Air and Game Colours are ~allegedly~ better matched to each other than the model range.

kb_lock wrote:
Dude, if you think GW is going to not have discrepancies between their air and non air ranges, you're high. Vallejo Game Air and Game Colours are ~allegedly~ better matched to each other than the model range.

It's not alleged at all

I have the entire Game Air and Game Color range -- every one of them -- and the match is a ZILLION times better than model air/model color, except where a match doesn't exist (which is a little maddening, but anyways). Electric Blue on Air really, really close to Electric Blue on Color. There is a slightly different finish (so you WILL see a brushstroke of one against the other), but this disappears if you varnish the model, or coat the whole area with medium.

However, it's not possible to just paint using Game Air/Color (unless you really enjoy mixing, in which case the whole conversation about color matching is moot); you have to dip into the Model pool. Even for such basic things as shades of grey.

Army Painter's sprays and paints are identical matches too. I actually think these matches are REALLY well done, especially considering the price and the convenience for people wanting to do relatively quick armies.

And in GW's favor, a Mephiston Red spray is 100% the same color as Mephiston Red paint.

Stunningly bad move GW - talk about another example of not understanding your customers at all.

In regards to the "painting with airbrush paints" I have had mixed experiences.

Model air - paints just fine with a brush. .
Game air - paints just fine with a brush.
Golden airbrush paints - paints fine with a brush for most applications.
Testors aztek - most paints do not cover well with a brush.
Allclad - do not work with a brush. Speciality metallic laquer paints.
Minitaire - hit or miss on brush painting. Some do not cover well at all with a brush.
Createx - hit or miss on brush painting - the black and white, cover very well. Some of the opalescent colors do not.

Regarding talys experience with game/model air, and non air matching - I can say that most of my results are very good.
However, I can also say I do not use the entire ranges of the non air paints - therefore, there may be colors that do not match, and I have just not tried them yet.

davethepak wrote:
Regarding talys experience with game/model air, and non air matching - I can say that most of my results are very good.
However, I can also say I do not use the entire ranges of the non air paints - therefore, there may be colors that do not match, and I have just not tried them yet.

It's worth noting that I'm very picky I will not accept 99.7% color match... it needs to look seamless, because if I'm going to spend 40-100 (or more) hours on a tank, the last thing I want is the side to look like there's a brushstroke on it. I'd rather strip the panel and redo 10 hours than have a visible brushstroke, if I can't fudge and work around it (battle damage, decal, etc.).

Also, on the color match bit with model color, the actual color code from Vallejo is different, (like Federated Standard codes), even though the names of the paints are identical, so there would actually be a bigger issue if they DID match (since FS codes are standardized colors)

 Talys wrote:
It's worth noting that I'm very picky I will not accept 99.7% color match... it needs to look seamless

You know what, it's that exact reason why I don't care that Model Air and Model Colour don't match.... because when you spray a colour it usually looks different to when you brush a colour anyway. Airbrushing a colour gives it a certain grain and sheen, so when you hairy brush paint over it, it stands out even if the colour was a 100% match out of the bottle.

so I do my damnedest to make sure if I'm using a colour in my airbrush I don't have to come back and hairy brush paint the same colour anyway (masking and whatnot) or if I do that it's done in a way to intentionally add depth to the colour (as airbrushing can sometimes look a bit flat) in which case I want the colours to look subtly different anyway.

davethepak wrote:
Stunningly bad move GW - talk about another example of not understanding your customers at all.

Just wondering why do you think it is a stunningly a bad move ?

Most people I have spoken that use GW paints are looking forward to having the same colours already thinned.

Yeah as far as bad GW moves go, this isn't stunning. Just the pots are ridiculous, other than that it is good, though I won't be buying any (price > pots > existing stock)

Yea must admit i would much prefer dropper bottles.