Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

the set comes with optional Cadian heads too.

Asterios wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

the set comes with optional Cadian heads too.

Ok, good. (Must say if I ever do get Tyranids, definintly going to add genestealers). I could get one of those, and perhaps two start collecting to get a lrbt and a squad each and then the rest will be separate.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asterios wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

the set comes with optional Cadian heads too.

Ok, good. (Must say if I ever do get Tyranids, definintly going to add genestealers). I could get one of those, and perhaps two start collecting to get a lrbt and a squad each and then the rest will be separate.

well how the set is done is you get a normal Chimera and a normal Cadian squad and then you get a sprue with the GS cult pieces to add to the Chimera and Cadian squad. me If I start doing Cadians again (which I plan to do) will get the set and sell off the GS cult sprue.

Ok, thats cool. So it's like a two in one, suprised games workshop wouldn't advertise that.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Ok, thats cool. So it's like a two in one, suprised games workshop wouldn't advertise that.

technically they do, they show pictures of the sprues you will be getting which shows all of that., as it goes all it is is a rehash of an old boxed set they had with an added Sprue.

Ok, and Power Axes vs chainswords? (order my first set of shock troops, get the genestealers next!)

power axes!

 Jancoran wrote:
power axes!

Got it, I ask because I can't find the power axe in the cadian shock troops. I could just be blind (which isn't out of the question, I can't count how many times I look in the fridge I can't find the milk) or do I have to get it elsewhere? If so, is there a specific set, or just buy as its own thing. (I guess I could just say my chainsword is really a power axe if I feel like being cheap).

or just convert it.

 Jancoran wrote:
or just convert it.

Again my noobiness strikes back, convert it?

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
or just convert it.

Again my noobiness strikes back, convert it?

knife and cut and pasting in the real world.

Yeah just get some Reaper Miniature axes or something and clip the swords off and then epoxy the axes on or drill a hole using a pin vice into the hand and then slip the axe into the hole.

Forgeworld also has a unit of 10 IG guys with Poweraxes that you can purchase. Expensive answer to the problem But...

Holy Emperor, I disagree with most of the tactical advice being given here! Apologies Jancoran for being blunt, but do you actually play IG competitively or otherwise?

With the Guard it is REALLY important to spend every point carefully and giving a new player less than optimum advice is just going to lead them to losing nearly every game, which is disheartening for a new player.

Putting all those upgrades, advisers etc into 1 blob is a really bad idea. I could get 3 blobs of 40 guys with enough upgrades for the same price.

@CommanderRednaxela, First off: Welcome to the Imperial Guard! It is fantastic that you are so excited about playing 40k and I hope you will have great time playing the game.

When it comes to winning with Guard there are a number of golden rules:

1) Numerical Superiority - Your infantry are some of the worst in the game in a 1:1 fight with other armies infantry. Therefor you need to try and always outnumber your enemy and drown them in bodies. It is possible to buff them up, but as I have already said, spending too many points on trying to make bad units good is just a waste of time. Accept that your guys are gonna die in spades and and focus on having more bodies.

2) Shooting wins games - The Imperial Guard are a really heavy shooting army. It is vitally important that you focus on improving your firepower. Trying make Guardsmen good at close combat (especially in 7th edition) is a waste of time. If the enemy is focused on chopping you up, then it probably means that that is what their guys are good at. 99% of the time if you end up in close combat your men are going to get torn apart, but that is ok because if you follow rule 1 you will have plenty of men

3) Spending points wisely - as others have said, the IG are in a tough place at the moment. Despite are men being cheap, they should really be even cheaper when compared to other armies. Because of this it is really important not to waste points. For example, if you are taking a 40 man Infantry Blob, you should only take special weapons and heavy weapons as upgrades. Giving a power Axe to every Sgt is really expensive and in most of your games they wont even get a chance to use them. Save those points and instead get yourself a Grenade Launcher and Autocannon in every squad. Those weapons are going to be used every turn, every game you play and thus are a much better investment.
Some people may say "if you have 5 points left over, just a get some random Melta Bombs" Sorry but that is just silly. Those melta bombs are never gonna get used. However, 5 bolters for your Sgts/officers are going to shoot every turn and as a bonus look cool on your models.

To back up what I have said, I have read your posts/comments and I have a good idea of what sort of Guard army you are going for. With this is in mind I recommend the 1850 list bellow:

+++Astra Militarum Combined Arms Detachment+++

HQ
Tank Commander Pask: Leman Russ Punisher with Hull Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Dozer Blade
Leman Russ Exterminator with Hull Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Dozer Blade

Company Command Squad: Autocannon, 2x Snipers, Officer with Bolter

Commissar: Bolter (with Platoon 1)
Commissar: Bolter (with Platoon 2)
Commissar: Bolter (with Conscripts)
Primaris Psyker: Force Axe and Level 2 (with Veteran Squads)
Primaris Psyker: Force Axe and Level 2 (with Veteran Squads)

Troops

Platoon 1:
PCS: 4x men with Lasguns, Officer with Bolter.
Squad 1: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Squad 2: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Squad 3: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Conscripts: 30x Conscripts.

PCS: 4x men with Lasguns, Officer with Bolter.
Squad 1: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Squad 2: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Squad 3: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.


Veterans: 3x Melta Gun, Sgt with Bolter.
Chimera: Multilaser and Hull Heavy Flamer.

Veterans: 3x Melta Gun, Sgt with Bolter.
Chimera: Multilaser and Hull Heavy Flamer.

Fast Attack:
Vedetta: 3x Twinlinked Lascannons.

Heavy Support
Wyvern.
Wyvern.


With list you have 130 Infantry, 6 Vehicles and 1 Flyer. Plenty of Anti Infantry and Anti Tank and it also gives you a nice variety of models which is fun to build and collect. This is not the best list, but I think it ticks all the boxes for what you personally are looking for.

Is a boltgun the same thing as a bolter(I know what a bolter is, no idea what a boltgun is) also force axes, do they count as power weapons?

Force axes are power axes that can be charged up with the "force" psychic power to be instant death weapons.

Boltgun = Bolter.

Personally, I'd dump the Russ hulls from the above list to get more dudes and more psykers and more wyverns. However, my meta has so much D/haywire it's crazy.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Is a boltgun the same thing as a bolter(I know what a bolter is, no idea what a boltgun is) also force axes, do they count as power weapons?

Boltgun and Bolter are the same thing in terms of rules/gameplay. In terms of lore/background a boltgun can mean a bolter that is a smaller version so that a non augmented human (i.e not a Space Marine) can use without it breaking both of the user arms due to recoil

Force Axes are the same as power axes EXCEPT that they also come with an inbuilt psychic power called "Force". During the Psychic phase you can choose to manifest the Force power (like you would any other power) on a model with a Force Weapon. This would then "power up" the Force Weapon and it gives the Force Weapon the "Instant Death" special rule. If a model suffers an unsaved wound from an attack with this special rule, it is reduced to 0 wounds and it is removed as a casualty. Now this might not be that useful if you are just chopping up basic enemies but any big monsters (Tyranid Carnifexs for example) which have 4-5 wounds will die just as easily to a force weapon as a basic dude.

I hope that makes sense


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
Force axes are power axes that can be charged up with the "force" psychic power to be instant death weapons.

Boltgun = Bolter.

Personally, I'd dump the Russ hulls from the above list to get more dudes and more psykers and more wyverns. However, my meta has so much D/haywire it's crazy.

I would as well, my meta is also D mad :( but i was just going with what OP said they liked at the start and Leman Russes will serve him well in general

What has been done to the Russ is one of the great crimes of 40K. It's objectively worse than anything in the BA codex, except landraiders, and that's because landraiders give up EVEN MORE points to D weapons.

I keep telling MoO this, but he won't listen. It's stupid to have to use the IG without their iconic units, but at the same time, you don't see me bringing a bunch of BA assault marines... because they suck.

4 X LV 2 divination psykers is so good in an IG list. The buffs stack up with the orders so well. You can combined the ignore cover buff with the take it down order for example. The buff saves you from giving the ignore cover order. And the 4++ is game changing for the IG.

Martel732 wrote:
What has been done to the Russ is one of the great crimes of 40K. It's objectively worse than anything in the BA codex, except landraiders, and that's because landraiders give up EVEN MORE points to D weapons.

I keep telling MoO this, but he won't listen. It's stupid to have to use the IG without their iconic units, but at the same time, you don't see me bringing a bunch of BA assault marines... because they suck.

4 X LV 2 divination psykers is so good in an IG list. The buffs stack up with the orders so well. You can combined the ignore cover buff with the take it down order for example. The buff saves you from giving the ignore cover order. And the 4++ is game changing for the IG.

I agree, the Leman Russ is what got me into IG in the first place. The first lot of IG I bought 12 years ago had a Demolisher in it and I still have that model. Occasionally bring it out of retirement but it always dies to either Tau cheese or drop melta. One ofthe problems with IG is our Army is so old but it never really changes so every knows what are units can do.

Atleast the good old, bog standard Guardsmen still does alright. Sometimes it really does "come down to the infantryman and his rifle" .

I assume you are taking allies if you are running 4 level 2 psykers. What do you run? 3 x Primaris and an Inquisitor?

I don't actually use psykers all that much, partly for fluff reasons but mostly because for the price of 3-4 psykers I can easily get 50-60 more infantry

The lists that fight me have the four psykers. I don't know exactly how he's building them. There's air cav in the mix too.

First baneblades aren't effective, now LRs, What is this heresy?

The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

Martel732 wrote:
The lists that fight me have the four psykers. I don't know exactly how he's building them. There's air cav in the mix too.

He might taking a formation, but in a basic CAD you can only get 3 Primaris Pykers .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

At least with melta drop we can try and bubble wrap, with D weapons there is no escape and haywire there is no escape.

Martel732 wrote:
The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

yes but people that designed melta back then put it on platforms that could be generally, or at least possibly, contained or countered, and gave it a short range.

Most of the new stuff has not been well thought through for its effect on the game.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The lists that fight me have the four psykers. I don't know exactly how he's building them. There's air cav in the mix too.

He might taking a formation, but in a basic CAD you can only get 3 Primaris Pykers .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

At least with melta drop we can try and bubble wrap, with D weapons there is no escape and haywire there is no escape.

It's probably double CAD. He's a straight shooter, so I know he's not cheating me.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
Holy Emperor, I disagree with most of the tactical advice being given here! Apologies Jancoran for being blunt, but do you actually play IG competitively or otherwise?


Putting all those upgrades, advisers etc into 1 blob is a really bad idea. I could get 3 blobs of 40 guys with enough upgrades for the same price.

1) Numerical Superiority -

2) Shooting wins games -

3) Spending points wisely - as others have said, the IG are in a tough place at the moment. Despite are men being cheap, they should really be even cheaper when compared to other armies. Because of this it is really important not to waste points. For example, if you are taking a 40 man Infantry Blob, you should only take special weapons and heavy weapons as upgrades. Giving a power Axe to every Sgt is really expensive and in most of your games they wont even get a chance to use them. Save those points and instead get yourself a Grenade Launcher and Autocannon in every squad. Those weapons are going to be used every turn, every game you play and thus are a much better investment.
Some people may say "if you have 5 points left over, just a get some random Melta Bombs" Sorry but that is just silly. Those melta bombs are never gonna get used. However, 5 bolters for your Sgts/officers are going to shoot every turn and as a bonus look cool on your models.

Do I play competitively? Yes. Am I ranked in the ITC? Yes. Where am I ranked? Top 3%. My club? Well it's in my icon: The Deffrollaz. Ranked in the top 3% So that is my qualification for giving advice. I also obtained that ranking competing with Militarum Tempestus, Orks, Tau Empire and yes even Adepta Sororitas. So not only am I top 3%, but I also did it using lower "tiered" armies. Good enough?

I agree with your Numerical supreriority advice.

I agree that shooting wins games, but with a caveat: it sets you up to finish games. Infantry win the games themselves.

You're dead wrong about hte power axes being used. That is a user issue, not an army issue.

Commissars are worse than priests. Having said that, its the same basic idea being applied here so I wont argue too much on that. Its a minor issue.

Wyverns: everyone said they were good already. Agreed.

A double CAD?

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
A double CAD?

Two Combined Arms Detachments. A Combined Arms Detachment (CAD for short) is one of many detachments you can build a Battle Forged 40K Army with.

Do I play competitively? Yes. Am I ranked in the ITC? Yes. Where am I ranked? Top 3%. My club? Well it's in my icon: The Deffrollaz. Ranked in the top 3% So that is my qualification for giving advice. I also obtained that ranking competing with Militarum Tempestus, Orks, Tau Empire and yes even Adepta Sororitas. So not only am I top 3%, but I also did it using lower "tiered" armies. Good enough?

Once again I must apologise for being blunt, but no actually not good enough, as you don’t seem to play IG competitively or otherwise. I am fully ready to accept that you are great player with tonnes of experience with many other armies, but not with IG (Also side note, Tau Empire are not a lower tiered army). If we are reading off qualifications then I think the fact that I have been playing/collecting Imperial Guard, as my only army, for the last 13 years across every rule set since second edition should be sufficient proof of my ability to comment on how to build an IG army. Having said that, I am more than willing to admit that you will be better qualified then myself to give advice about other armies (e.g. Orks, Stormies and Sisters) as I have never collected those armies.

Look, I don’t want to argue with you over who has the biggest balls Lets just agree that we have both set out our respective stalls and get back to giving advice to the OP.

I agree with your Numerical supreriority advice.

Thank you

I agree that shooting wins games, but with a caveat: it sets you up to finish games. Infantry win the games themselves.

I agree with that.

You're dead wrong about hte power axes being used. That is a user issue, not an army issue.

I think power axes are great. I think putting so many on squad sgts is a massive waste of points. I mean you already have 3 of them with all the Primaris Psykers your using, you don’t need 4-5 more! I tend to run 1 power axe per blob as this means if I do get tied up in close combat by a small, but tough unit, I can generally fight my way out quickly. If something like a wolf star is coming at me, it doesn’t matter how many power axes I have they are still gonna rip my men to pieces.

Commissars are worse than priests. Having said that, its the same basic idea being applied here so I wont argue too much on that. Its a minor issue.

Fair enough but just consider this, Priests look better on paper, but actually the buffs you get from them are worse as they buff you in the wrong way, close combat. Priests give you fearless, which is actually worse than Summary Execution because it stops you from going to ground. I good tactic is to use a nice wall conscripts (to give the unit a 5+ cover save) and then go to ground behind them to get a 4+. Then next turn you can order you guys to get back up (Get Back in the Fight). Also whilst they also let you reroll hits in the first round of combat and their hymns are good (but Ld7 is bad) they are making you better at close combat, which we have already established is worse than shooting. Also you don’t really need re rolls to hit from zealot as you can just get them from Prescience and re roll shooting and close combat

Wyverns: everyone said they were good already. Agreed.

Yep fair point.

Just one point I want to add, in your super blobs, you are spending so many points on close combat upgrades and advisors. I mean do you really think you need 3 priests and 3 Primaris Psykers? Surely 1 of each per blob would do.

First Baneblades, then LRs, now SoB, so much heresy. I guess we know who to blame, fething Horus!

Also, what are Warloard traits?