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My PUMPED-ness is dissipating rapidly..

In g&g case, its the same frelling truck

I signed up for a Hawk 10mm board.
The Frontline Gaming and Tablewar (FAT) mats, funded at the same time as this. I'm going to have one of their SECOND GENERATION 10mm DzC mats, before I get my G&G mat, and I haven't ordered it yet.

"No we don't have camera's at factory and were are on 2G mobiles and have no idea is that is the same or better than the west. Pretty much it."

Lord give me strength

I just called bs on that one, and provided a recent update link from Journey KS. Who are also late but do have working cameras.

All this talk of being pumped, and no ones posted this...




I hadnt thought about that grade school trick in years.

Just got this in my email. Apparently they don't like criticism. (and no, I didn't ask for a refund, so it's interesting)

Kickstarter <no-reply@kickstarter.com>
11:33 (4 minutes ago)

to me
Kickstarter
You’ve received a refund for your pledge to the Games & Gears Battle Boards project. The details are below.
Games & Gears Battle Boards
Games & Gears Battle Boards by Games & Gears
Visit project
Amount pledged
£124.00
Reward
EARLY BIRD: x2 Games & Gears 6 by 4 battle board. This reward is for two Games & Gears 6 by 4 Battle Board, select two of the five battle board themes.FREE SHIPPING to: USA, UK, EU, CANADA, AUSTRALIA, NEW ZEALAND, JAPAN & SINGAPORE.EVERYWHERE ELSE PLEASE ADD 35.00GBP TO YOUR PLEDGE FOR SHIPPING.
Estimated delivery
May 2014
Shipping to
Earth

Dscn0093 %e5%89%af%e6%9c%ac.thumb
Games & Gears says:
If you have any questions about this, you can ask the project’s creator directly — just send them a message to get in touch.
Message the project creator
Thanks!
<3 Kickstarter

They refunded you with you asking for one?

Based on what?

This is really odd behavior!

I posted this comment in the update comments: (in reply to immediately preceding comments by Bill Christian and then G&G)

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554355176/games-and-gears-battle-boards/posts/1050267#comments

Azazel A about 2 hours ago
Easy solution to that - have the staff who speak English as a native language (or at least Fluently) write the updates? It's not rocket surgery, FFS.
Also, please invest in a copy of MS word for your ESL staff so they can run what they say through a spelling/grammar checker first. I'm not being sarcastic or trolling with that comment, either.
Seriously. Another poster came up with this fantastic description of what your communication is like and how it feels to be dealing with you at this stage - and he's right on the fething money:
G&G:"we're so pumped! Your boards are on the boat!"
Backer" Are they?"
G&G" Well no...but they're in the warehouse waiting to be on the boat! Here is a picture of something wrapped in plastic, woo!"
Backer" When will we get our boards?"
G&G" October! Woo! Pump! Woo!"
Backer"Its october, where are my boards?"
G&G"November! Yeah! Thanks for your patience!"
Backer" Its now November"
G&G "Pumped that one of the boards is now getting shipped! Pumped!"
Backer" Will I get my boards this year?"
G&G: silence

I posted the Pete Melvin stuff from Dakka because it's fething hilarious, and accurate - as I think most of us can agree on.



I also posted this in the general comments section, after reading Pete's post in this thread about "we no have cameras" and going to look for myself.
(More of the comment chain provided here for context, and because stuff gets lost).

Creator Games & Gears 17 minutes ago
We know this is frustrating, we are dealing with it and getting it sorted. We don't know any other kickstarter which has been affected like this and where on time. Hawk Urban War has been shipped. We have already explained much in previous updates. Good news is final phase is happen yes it's 6 months over due. There is nothing we can do about that but work hard and get it to you as soon as we can.

Creator Games & Gears 28 minutes ago
They got flooded too?

Azazel A about 2 hours ago
Sounds like the usual (endless) bs to me. Here are photos from another project being made in Chinese factories.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1588487845/journey-wrath-of-demons/posts/1012335
Wooo! Pumped! Wooooo!

Creator Games & Gears about 8 hours ago
No we don't have camera's at factory and were are on 2G mobiles and have no idea is that is the same or better than the west. Pretty much it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/554355176/games-and-gears-battle-boards/comments

I then got refunded (read: Kicked out) in between their "They got flooded too?" and "We know this is frustrating, we are dealing with it and getting it sorted. " posts on their end.

At no point did I ask for a refund, and while I was pretty fething snarky, I make no apologies for that, especially in light of the bs and unintelligible warblegarble they've been feeding us for the last 6 months. And they're still using "flooding" as an excuse for everything - including apparently, why they don't have working cameras in China.

Well, the next question is - are you pumped at getting a refund?

Or are you upset?

And is what they did against KS 'rules'?

I'm pumped I dropped my pledge to $1. Pumped!
Would it be poor form to start posting in the KS comments in the same way G&G do?
Also Azazelx I'd report them to KS, specifically mention you were not pumped.

What a shame..

I was initially pleased with GnG, I placed an order for two of their paint racks when first released, and because they only sent me one they sent me an extra one to apologise (so I've got three.)

Now, the new rack is quite a lot more expensive, and half the size. One could say it was deflated, or "anti-pumped" if you will.

Not sure if it's against KS rules or not. Then again, I'm not sure if KS really have any "rules" anymore. (Even when they did they were made of chewing gum and elastic, as we know).

I'm in two minds, to be honest. I'm somewhat pissed off, but that is lessened by the fact that I've got my SWM boards, which I imagine are much higher quality than the G&G ones will be when they ship sometime next year.

Offering me (or any of us) a refund would have been fair enough, but booting me out (while pretending to keep talking to me in the comments) is classless as I obviously can't respond to them anymore. i.e: "They got flooded too?"
- Which is laughable since we were talking about cameras, not floods and delays.

They might have the "he was not respectful to us" defence to KS, though in my mind they haven't exactly been respectful to us with the level of their comms for the last few months (entirely aside from the delays).

So I dunno. I think I would have rather had the cheap table tops. But then again if the company treats their customers this way (remember, my snark is in direct response to months of their illegible warblegarble, bs and doubletalk), I'm not sure if they deserve my (or our) business? I just wish there was a way to link to this part of the thread in their comments!

At least we know that there's an eject button for this campaign if anyone wants their money back. Just make fun of them in the comments and watch their thin skin get prickled!

They used to be fairly active over here too.

I wonder why they aren't anymore?

1) No current KS to pimp.

2) They haven't exactly been updating their own KS all that often anyway.

3) The ESL guy(s?) seem to be have been doing most of the KS updates for awhile now. The UK guys have been quiet for quite awhile. Until today, heh.

I'm not happy with the progress, but I don't think we should refer to them as the "ESL guys"... my wife has English as a second language and I think using the term that way is a bit crass, to be honest. (Edit: to clarify, I'm referring to the ordering of the terms / way they're used, not the term itself. I used to be a therapist and one thing we were very careful about was to say "children with autism" rather than "autistic children", since one emphasizes the child, but the other emphasizes their condition).

I've seen the DzC sample board in person at GenCon and it was sweet. Considering asking to swap just to those as the shallow detail is just fine for 10mm scale.

The communication and lack of solid info is certainly frustrating, though.

Just for the record - ESL isn't an offensive term here. Not in the slightest - and not meant in an offensive way - including in their comments. I've used it simply as an abbreviation of "guys who don't speak English as their native language", but in terms of using three letters instead of an entire sentence.

It's also rather different to NESB, because that's a different thing again. (Though people can be both - such as my father).

My criticism of ESL in the communications for this KS is in that it's simply not effective, and if they have people who speak English as a first language or ESL who can write it fluently, then those people should be the filter for the information presented to backers, regardless of where the info originates.

The 'no cameras in the factory' thing is just clearly an outright lie though right?

While there's no way of proving something like that on our part, I think you know what I think...

Call me stupid, but I did not know I could get a refund. Thought that was kickstarter rules or something.

Getting that sorted out ASAP!

Oh hell Azazelx, I feel partially responsible for that. I do hope it hasnt put you out too much. What a bunch of fething goits.

Apparently you just need to be critical of them in the comments section and than - pow! - you're sorted.

And pumped!

I think they might regret opening the 'refund door'.

I asked for a refund and they're saying that they will only refund me £55 because KS already took their 10%. I'm holding fire because I'd like to know if that's legitimate?

Thanks

Possibly. I didn't ask for one, and my bank hasn't processed anything yet so I have no idea how much I got back (or honestly, even if they did actually refund me).

Hmm, it seems that as the refund is issued via KS, wouldn't they return the fees, kinda like eBay? I feel like it's a tactic to keep me on board after I turned down the offer of one of he other boards

I'm honestly not sure. It's a good point, though - when you get a refund from eBay you get back all of the fees involved, right down to currency conversion.

Since I paid for this via CC. I'm going to have to wait a few days to see how much (or if) I actually got refunded. If mine is minus 10%, then I'll start kicking up a stink with KS.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I sent them a quick comment via KS asking what the story was. They replied with an explanation from their perspective - and apparently it's a full refund(?) I hadn't actually asked about the refund at all - so we'll see what happens/happened there in a few days.

I've sent them another reply, filling them in on why people are becoming angry and upset, and a little on customer service and how that experience gets shared. We'll see what happens, but I'll certainly keep you guys updated.

Interesting that they're treating me differently. Very unhappy with them. I'm asking them about it now, but it's also bedtime for me.

 Davylove21 wrote:
I asked for a refund and they're saying that they will only refund me £55 because KS already took their 10%. I'm holding fire because I'd like to know if that's legitimate?

Thanks

I've been reluctant to mention anything like I'm about to, partly because I didn't want to come across all "I told you so" and I assure you that it isn't the case, and partly because I have nothing to substantiate it other than my own gut feeling, but I am glad I haven't got any further involved with these guys.

As a customer, I can have no complaints with how I have been dealth with by GnG, they have been reasonable and beyond, but on a personal level, and this is speaking as someone who has spent years in sales, there is something that feels a little off.

I'm not making accusations of criminal behaviour, intent to deceive or anything similar, but there's something about their actions, both positive and negative, which smacks, to me, of being seen to do the right thing, rather than doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do, if that makes sense?

I'm really struggling to articulate what is essentially a gut reaction, but with regard to the KS fees, I get the impression that, even if it's true, they're glad about it?

If I had a colleague who acted the way I perceive them to be, I would probably use words like "sharp" or even "sharky"

I have singuarly failed to explain what I intended to my satisfation, but hopefully I've conveyed enough of what I mean!

I know what you mean. It's one of those frustrating instances where you know there is a word for what you want to describe but you don't know the word.

I was stung once many years ago by a fly-by-night webstore to the tune of about £60 (this is long ago enough that it was a good chunk of a Space Marine army) and the language they employed was similar to the language GnG use. It's as if they're forever buying time.