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 HisDivineShadow wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
The Mule is almost exactly a copy from real life, you do realize right? I've seen videos of the test robot. I believe it's a DARPA creation. It follows soldiers, responds to voice commands, and looks exactly like Mark's version. Down to the ball feet. It may not look like scifi has made us think of walking robots... but it's realistic.

No, it is not. It is slower, less stable and more expensive than doing the same thing with wheels like a sane person.

Actually not. Wheels have lots of cons. Like stepping over things. They cant.

edit. Found it. On DARPA own website. Video even.
[url]http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Releases/2012/09/10.aspx
[/url]

Neat video. The future applications, especially as the technology gets refined and improved, will be very interesting to see. For something like the MULE, a cargo platform, we'll be looking for enough speed to keep up with a running man, or better, self leveling of the platform as it ascends, descends, and traverses slopes, and platform tilt to compensate for changes in it's velocity.

 AlexHolker wrote:

No, it is not. It is slower, less stable and more expensive than doing the same thing with wheels like a sane person.

The kind of sane person who brings bipedal mecha to a tank fight? The kind of person who puts a sword on his walking artillery machine? The kind of sane person who dresses up his soldiers in Space Wehrmacht armor?

I think the sane person here is the one who expects "Star Wars meets nazis" in every aspect of the design rather than "maybe this next kit will be based on cutting-edge, practical technology".

Besides, the mules are kind of adorable. Especially if you put some heavy weapons on their backs.

Kawaiiiiiiii. Their widdwe awmor is too stwong fow bwasters. ^___________^

Image of the WW-2 Hanomag Mark used for inspiration has grills just top of the nose not in the front armor plate but just above and back a few Milimeters.

Yes, tracked or wheeled bots do have their uses and limits, a self righting, self balancing 4 legged machine would work well.

The Eisenkern, ( I read their fluff) are descended from WW-I Kaiser Germans rather than the others as things went very differently so no, no chance for the Hitlerian overtake as they evacuated Earth and moved to space, and likely a few f the notorious people died in that plague never making it out to space. So, the Eisenkern are more likely to uphold more knightly ideals as those from WW-I and not be the same , just a modernized stahlhelm to breather mask and the armor shell pieces added. That iconic helmet did start in WW-I.

Urban and mountainous terrain is actually where the 4-legged bots trump wheeled and tracked vehicles. As near-line support, they also make a bit more sense than a big vehicle as it can carry resupply munitions and hide in much the same places as the infantry it's supporting. Using a manual vehicle (such as a handtruck or wheelbarrow or what have you) to carry extra supplies reduces the unit's combat effectiveness on its mission, as now the soldiers must expend energy transporting supplies instead of patrolling/fighting.

Hence the reason these bots actually exist in real-life. The major problems they have today is power generation; when operating in the field they have to run on motors that are quite loud. You then run into the perennial issue of fuel for said motors, which could be carried by the bot, but then is taking up space for the supplies the bot is supposed to be carrying. In Iron Core's fictional setting though, they seem to have an abundance of power now from the Iron Core generators, so likely the bots are refueled by siphoning power from the reactors on the APCs or Leviathans.

Other videos of bots that likely helped inspire the MULE behind the spoilers (and you can really hear how loud the motors are; no stealth operations supported by these guys!). The second video shows the Wildcat, which gets some pretty impressive speed going for something "on foot":

 Krinsath wrote:
The second video shows the Wildcat, which gets some pretty impressive speed going for something "on foot":

Only because it's on foot. It can beat the world's fastest unicycle, but that's about it - wheels can do it ten times better for a fraction of the cost.

The problem with the mule is that it is not a statically stable design. Being a hauler means it has to carry a high, unbalanced centre of gravity over varying terrain at varying speeds, and a four legged chassis like the mule is unsuited to such a task. A wheeled or six legged chassis can cope trivially with the sort of obstacles that will make the mule fall over and drop its cargo.

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Krinsath wrote:
The second video shows the Wildcat, which gets some pretty impressive speed going for something "on foot":

Only because it's on foot. It can beat the world's fastest unicycle, but that's about it - wheels can do it ten times better for a fraction of the cost.

The problem with the mule is that it is not a statically stable design. Being a hauler means it has to carry a high, unbalanced centre of gravity over varying terrain at varying speeds, and a four legged chassis like the mule is unsuited to such a task. A wheeled or six legged chassis can cope trivially with the sort of obstacles that will make the mule fall over and drop its cargo.

Okay, clearly we're a little determined to win a pointless argument here. This is neither news nor rumor nor constructive nor compelling nor even particularly interesting. Be entrenched in criticism somewhere else. You don't like it, whatever, don't buy it, move on.

I want that...but with guns

Or even better, sell me yours if you have them from the accessory sprues!

Edit- frakking Mac keyboard...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ncshooter426 wrote:



I want that...but with guns

That's happening in the Raging Heroes thread. If you're willing to wait a few years for it.

 shasolenzabi wrote:

The Eisenkern, ( I read their fluff) are descended from WW-I Kaiser Germans rather than the others as things went very differently so no, no chance for the Hitlerian overtake as they evacuated Earth and moved to space, and likely a few f the notorious people died in that plague never making it out to space. So, the Eisenkern are more likely to uphold more knightly ideals as those from WW-I and not be the same , just a modernized stahlhelm to breather mask and the armor shell pieces added. That iconic helmet did start in WW-I.

Yes, I read the fluff. It was pretty enjoyable. However, pretending that the design of the Eisenkern stormtroopers, a beautiful melding of the two most popular evil mook armies in [Lucas]film history, grew from the fluff rather than vice versa is a bit difficult to take seriously.

I believe it was Freud who once said, sometimes a pew-pew space nazi is just a...thing that is awesome.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 shasolenzabi wrote:

The Eisenkern, ( I read their fluff) are descended from WW-I Kaiser Germans rather than the others as things went very differently so no, no chance for the Hitlerian overtake as they evacuated Earth and moved to space, and likely a few f the notorious people died in that plague never making it out to space. So, the Eisenkern are more likely to uphold more knightly ideals as those from WW-I and not be the same , just a modernized stahlhelm to breather mask and the armor shell pieces added. That iconic helmet did start in WW-I.

Yes, I read the fluff. It was pretty enjoyable. However, pretending that the design of the Eisenkern stormtroopers, a beautiful melding of the two most popular evil mook armies in [Lucas]film history, grew from the fluff rather than vice versa is a bit difficult to take seriously.

I believe it was Freud who once said, sometimes a pew-pew space nazi is just a...thing that is awesome.

Either way, I still like the minis and look forwards to the Hanomag/Zeus/Thor/Stuka zu Fuss and the Valkyrie and black widows I will also be happy to see the Protectorate stuff as well. I wonder how the Psycho space bats will turn out?

Sorry if its been asked/answered but I couldnt find it, is there an anticipated release date for the APC yet?

Not really. Mark's last words was that he was hoping to have them on the boat by the end of Q2, which would translate to roughly Q3 for retail. However, there was a lot of stuff still outstanding from Wave 3 and I'm not sure how quickly WGF will turn around those projects.

I'd hope for Q3, but expect Q4 for retail.

Hey mark, its been two weeks, any more progress on the black widows, assault troops or word on new dates?

First of all Happy Easter long weekend everyone. But I second Theo's question. Stuff should be getting ready to be on the boat for us to get our stuff end of June.

So...? Just an open, honest question with no accusatory hint whatsoever. I remain your devoted crack addict to matter what, Mark.

 NoseGoblin wrote:

 inqscott wrote:
Thank you for an overview of the process could I ask what stage are the heavy troopers in? Thank you in advance for all your hard work Mark I was one of the guys who bought your resin and metal releases excellent lines

We are in that negotiation phase. All the mold splits have been done but I am not happy with how they had to approach a few items. I have a conference call with my account rep and the engineer tonight to go over the concerns and see if we can get inventive with how we take care of the concerns. The Heavy troopers are even more hard lined from a design perspective than the stormtroopers were. The crease in the armor legs and arms and the perfect circles of the knees and elbows creates some challenges for the engineers and what angle they put the part at. The crotch area of the legs has been a trouble spot and one we will be discussing tonight. Some of the weapons on the Heavy Support squad need some tweaks for ease of assembly....

 NoseGoblin wrote:

Sining wrote:
I've never cut molds before. But I'm just looking at the ks page and my wave 3 stuff was supposed to go out may 2013. I would assume the actual factory would know what they're doing when scheduling things which would mean that normally yes, they should be able to finish tooling everything before may 2013 and the fact it's still tooling now is disheartening.

Basically I'm just upset that one of the very first ks I backed in 2012 and which I have NOTHING to show for since I only backed assault troopers, will suddenly possibly be pushed back to q3 2014. So really when you say YAY, I say yay....

Just to be clear, I am not soft peddling a possible delay, If I knew that we were looking at one, I would and I will tell you.

The reason for my post was simply to inform on the process, that it is far more fluid than most realize and because I have read a few threads where people were concerned about the number of projects that WGF is currently handling. I want to be clear on this point; if left unfettered by my change requests, I am quite confident that we would clear the decks before the end of Q2. If this goes over, it is because I was not happy with some aspect and asked for revisions. I know that is small comfort for any customers that have been waiting on stage three items, but just know I am looking after your investment and making sure that I meet or exceed your expectations for the final kits, waiting this long and then receiving a sub par product is not an option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Mark...

If mould split is done for most of the infantry... can you share a bit of the Black Widows with us?

Please? Pretty please?

Forgive me... not quite yet. It will likely be the last one I preview.

Based on these posts from almost a month ago (March 24th)... I don't know, I just can't see a June delivery being feasible, Mathieu. End of summer is my hope. But I don't get the impression that the heavy troopers have been tooled yet (they were in the "negotiation phase" about mold split designs at the end of March). And that means, to me, that the Black Widows haven't been yet, either.

Thus holding up my 15mm Mortis and 15mm weapon arms . But we must be getting close... knowing how close would be good.

You know, I'd forgotten about the DFG KS stuff again till I saw this post bumped just now. Good to see that RT has joined me here on the Dark Side, or the realistically cynical side, anyway. Yeah, based on the slow/non movement on this project since Wave 2 delivery (when was that again? a year ago by now?) we'll be lucky to see Wave 3 by this Christmas. Ho. Ho. Ho.

Well, I think late summer personally, at latest early fall. There had been lots of progress (15mm Mortis, 15mm arms, APC) but there was tons to do (heavy troopers, command infantry, black widows) for this wave.

So, possibly a Q3 retail release for the APCs?

I've decided I want at least 6.

I don't know. Mark seemed confident, yet holding some information back. Maybe he knew stuff he just couldn't share yet, and wanted to build hype once the boat was in the water. That's my hope, at least.

It would run counter to how he ran the whole campaign and fulfillment so far to keep us in the dark about a real delay. As they would say regarding Count Dooku hiring Darth Maul: It's just not in his character.

Mathieu... For referring to Episodes 1-3 I just revoked a few Nerd cred points.

That aside...I'm hoping they can stay on track for a q2 release. I need/want alot of the things.

Also. .. Any one have ideas on figures that would make good conscripts in relation to Eisenkern? Or conversions to them?

Am I the only one who doesn't like the APC? It's too bland. Looks like a GI Joe toy to me. Granted the Taurox is not winning any beauty pageants, but this is not the Hot Friend you need a wing man to grab. Both of these are the girls your buddy takes one for the team to do you a solid.

Perhaps some victoria miniatures models, DivineShadow? The Eisenkern are much more heavily armed and "militaristic" looking, but given that conscripts would not be as heavily armored, it may work.

However, if you were to do this you may want to mount the Eisenkern on a slightly thinner base (which i actually believe they come with). One is shown here for scale purposes on a normal base, and you can see it makes them a half head taller than victoria's minis. Whereas with a half-height base, they would be about the same height.



She has some "penal guard" that look much more, well, conscripted just posting the above for size comparison purposes. Penal guard:
http://victoriaminiatures.highwire.com/product/penal-guard-10-man-resin-squad

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Mathieu... For referring to Episodes 1-3 I just revoked a few Nerd cred points.

That aside...I'm hoping they can stay on track for a q2 release. I need/want alot of the things.

Also. .. Any one have ideas on figures that would make good conscripts in relation to Eisenkern? Or conversions to them?

Interesting question; if you've got lots of spare arms/guns from the Stormtroopers (which is likely if you have the accessories kit) around you might want to try WGF's Shock Troops. I've not been a fan of the look because their guns look goofy IMO, but the "cheap, mass-produced and ill-fitting" look would really work for conscripts, IMO. Not sure how compatible any of the parts are either, though Mark's stuff has proven to be remarkably resilient.

In terms of news, I too await with bated breath. I'm trying not to be as pessimistic as Azazelx, but I have a sinking suspicion he's more right than not. Hopefully I'll be wrong (as has been my track record on this campaign with predicting dates thus far) but in the meantime I'll twiddle my thumbs with the rest of you all.

Also does anybody know what decision was made with the bases? Mark had given options for a different style, but I don't recall the outcome of that.

The bases are thinner than normal, which brings the Eisenkern down to the correct height while still keeping them from looking like squashed human beings . What I can't remember is if they are 25mm or 30mm in diameter.

Thanks RITides, I have the ones that came with the figs, just wondering about the "other" bases. I think mark realized that the flat bottom bases were not great and he put an option out for 6-8 different styles for us to vote on. Some had little tabs on the sides to help with facings and vision, others were more like the GW bases. I just thought of it this morning and couldn't remember the outcome.

Considering that the bases are integrated into the infantry sprue produced so far. ..I wonder if that's even a good idea. They are a little bigger then geedub... but it's manageable. And the further out those concepts went the less I liked them.

And while I love Vic ' s stuff. .. They aren't exactly priced well for using as Conscripts.

I didn't think changing them was a good idea, but at the time I think it was more about needing to change it for the game system. I could be wrong.

 shasolenzabi wrote:
Image of the WW-2 Hanomag Mark used for inspiration has grills just top of the nose not in the front armor plate but just above and back a few Milimeters.

Yes, tracked or wheeled bots do have their uses and limits, a self righting, self balancing 4 legged machine would work well.

The Eisenkern, ( I read their fluff) are descended from WW-I Kaiser Germans rather than the others as things went very differently so no, no chance for the Hitlerian overtake as they evacuated Earth and moved to space, and likely a few f the notorious people died in that plague never making it out to space. So, the Eisenkern are more likely to uphold more knightly ideals as those from WW-I and not be the same , just a modernized stahlhelm to breather mask and the armor shell pieces added. That iconic helmet did start in WW-I.

This is an easy way to avoid the problem of Nazi-ism when using German historical imagery, but I'm afraid it isn't that simple. Nazi ideas were not created from whole cloth by Hitler alone in the 1930s. Nazi ideology is a bizarre synthesis of a variety of ideas that were current in Germany (and elsewhere) from the late nineteenth-century onward. Much of it is, in fact, tied directly to WWI.

Take for example the Freikorps. They were both the blueprint and the recruiting grounds for the SA and the SS. The Freikorps already had their own mish-mash of ideologies, which included many of the most horrible elements of what would be developed into Nazi belief.

So, even if you uproot WWI era Germans and take them to another planet, the seeds of Nazi-ism are already in their minds/culture. Now, it's an entirely different question whether or not those pre-Nazi/Hitler space Germans would have ever developed anything like what Hitler believes without him, but Hitler did not magically create the ideological and cultural circumstances that enabled his awful ideas to flourish in pre-WWII Germany.

-C6

The bases are 30mm that come in the box for stormtroopers. They're really nice, but technically not legal for 40k.