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Indeed. I suspect it'll be a few years before they hit the shelves given the time between the infantry previews/KS debut and the fact that half of them still haven't made it out.

Great. So now I have to come up with rules for floating tanks? Thanks, Mark.

[It's not like he showed me draft renders almost a year ago or anything, and I forgot.]

R.

The Stug on the ground looks great !!

The flying one just looks like a silly flying tank. Kinda like I used to do with my toy tanks when I was a kid. I outgrew that and ain't going back

 precinctomega wrote:
Great. So now I have to come up with rules for floating tanks? Thanks, Mark.

[It's not like he showed me draft renders almost a year ago or anything, and I forgot.]

R.

That shouldn't be too much work Robey. Just need to add gravitic propulsion to movement systems for vehicles. And cover rules for grav vehicles. And maybe pop-up attack rules.

Not too much ;P


Oh, and again, these will have a tracked variant for those that can't imagine gravitically lifted vehicles being able to move a bit like hover vehicles and not just floating tanks.

Yep, options to go Grav OR ground hugging treads

Wonder if tht'll be doable with magnets or if that's asking too much. Can only hope... I loves me some magnets!

Leviathan coolers were easily do-able with magnets, can't see these being much harder.

biggest problem would be if Mark made a mistake in the split or design of the parts. Easiest way for the modeller would be sepperate sides which fitted onto a base plate, but that would up the part-count considerably.

So intrigued to see how these are going to fit together.

Looking at those sprues... I'm very happy I got me some Valkir. Spare eisenkern heads are hard to come by lately. No bits carrier seem to have them in stock, and with almost 100 conscripts for my AM to kit out, those are going to be super helpful.

Mark, needless to say, keep up the great work. Stoked as hell to see this rumbling along.

 Yonan wrote:
Wonder if tht'll be doable with magnets or if that's asking too much. Can only hope... I loves me some magnets!

I read this and immediately thought how cool it would be to have the model float on some magnets...

Love the STUG. My favorite tank destroyer... the only one I've managed a 'Top Gun' medal on in World of Tanks.

I bought the Ramshackle PuG, so I guess I need this too

 agnosto wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Wonder if tht'll be doable with magnets or if that's asking too much. Can only hope... I loves me some magnets!

I read this and immediately thought how cool it would be to have the model float on some magnets...

It's doable. I've seen someone do it with smaller models. Place magnets in bottom, and make a base with magnets in polar opposite positions on the base. Attach a string or monofilament line to the undercarriage. Put an eye hook on the base where it will be hidden. Then pull down line and stabilize over the magnets. Probably have to use a couple anchor points for better stabilization.

ski2060 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Wonder if tht'll be doable with magnets or if that's asking too much. Can only hope... I loves me some magnets!

I read this and immediately thought how cool it would be to have the model float on some magnets...

It's doable. I've seen someone do it with smaller models. Place magnets in bottom, and make a base with magnets in polar opposite positions on the base. Attach a string or monofilament line to the undercarriage. Put an eye hook on the base where it will be hidden. Then pull down line and stabilize over the magnets. Probably have to use a couple anchor points for better stabilization.

My thoughts exactly...now I'll be eyeing my Tau Devilfish...

Sphere magnet (or even just a ball bearing, lots easier to calibrate properly for sure!) embedded at CoG, three or more magnets positioned in a ring at equal distances around te point on the base above which the CoG should be suspended - doable. Gakload of work, though.

And the moment you move it, it all goes horribly wrong.

For now, there will be no "skimmer" rules in Iron Core. After all, Newton tells us that, in order to be up in the air, something must be delivering an equal and opposite force downwards, so it's still going to set off mines and crush enemies same as if it were rolling around.

Once the game is a little more mature, we'll think about how we could incorporate antigrav rules.

Part of the challenge is, at the moment, I have no idea what the answers are to the very good questions as to why the STUG is AG, but the Keilerkopf isn't. And why the Loki and Thor exist at all.

R.

Skimmer: using normal vehicle rules but ignore every kind if terrain while moving

Everything else is for hover or aircraft

Sci-fi Germans in power armour, flying panzers, when can we expect the good old brain in the floating jar with zee funny moustache?

I do love those big power armor guys. My mind immediately went to that Scion army I have wanted to build but can't really afford. Shame that it seems like they wont be out for a while. :(

 precinctomega wrote:
And the moment you move it, it all goes horribly wrong.

For now, there will be no "skimmer" rules in Iron Core. After all, Newton tells us that, in order to be up in the air, something must be delivering an equal and opposite force downwards, so it's still going to set off mines and crush enemies same as if it were rolling around.

Once the game is a little more mature, we'll think about how we could incorporate antigrav rules.

Part of the challenge is, at the moment, I have no idea what the answers are to the very good questions as to why the STUG is AG, but the Keilerkopf isn't. And why the Loki and Thor exist at all.

R.

AG is probably more expensive to implement, reserving it for vehicles that need the maneuverability more than a troop transport.
Loki/Thor are probably fielded to provide longer range firepower in the absence of a Leviathan or any heavy support troops. The elite troops can't be everywhere.

 precinctomega wrote:
And the moment you move it, it all goes horribly wrong.

For now, there will be no "skimmer" rules in Iron Core. After all, Newton tells us that, in order to be up in the air, something must be delivering an equal and opposite force downwards, so it's still going to set off mines and crush enemies same as if it were rolling around.

Once the game is a little more mature, we'll think about how we could incorporate antigrav rules.

Part of the challenge is, at the moment, I have no idea what the answers are to the very good questions as to why the STUG is AG, but the Keilerkopf isn't. And why the Loki and Thor exist at all.

R.

The troops already have drop capabilities iirc, the tank can be dropped from the sky, if the AG works , if not well its heavier than dropping an apc on someone . But probably the AG would be used as a faster means of deploying the heavy guns, and the tank is pure military grade. The APC I could see being used for non military use (police, security forces, and emergency respose) so no AG there.

 Theophony wrote:

 precinctomega wrote:
And the moment you move it, it all goes horribly wrong.

For now, there will be no "skimmer" rules in Iron Core. After all, Newton tells us that, in order to be up in the air, something must be delivering an equal and opposite force downwards, so it's still going to set off mines and crush enemies same as if it were rolling around.

Once the game is a little more mature, we'll think about how we could incorporate antigrav rules.

Part of the challenge is, at the moment, I have no idea what the answers are to the very good questions as to why the STUG is AG, but the Keilerkopf isn't. And why the Loki and Thor exist at all.

R.

The troops already have drop capabilities iirc, the tank can be dropped from the sky, if the AG works , if not well its heavier than dropping an apc on someone . But probably the AG would be used as a faster means of deploying the heavy guns, and the tank is pure military grade. The APC I could see being used for non military use (police, security forces, and emergency respose) so no AG there.

Actually, Mark just explained on FB that the APC uses a full IC engine, and weighs about 4 times as much as the StuG does. The StuG uses a capacitance battery for power, which it can recharge off of the APC's Iron Core engine. The APC actually has slightly more armor than the StuG!

The AG in use by the Humans may only be a low level repulsor type technology instead of full anti-gravity, requiring less power and providing much less lift than a full AG suite.

ski2060 wrote:

 Theophony wrote:

 precinctomega wrote:
And the moment you move it, it all goes horribly wrong.

For now, there will be no "skimmer" rules in Iron Core. After all, Newton tells us that, in order to be up in the air, something must be delivering an equal and opposite force downwards, so it's still going to set off mines and crush enemies same as if it were rolling around.

Once the game is a little more mature, we'll think about how we could incorporate antigrav rules.

Part of the challenge is, at the moment, I have no idea what the answers are to the very good questions as to why the STUG is AG, but the Keilerkopf isn't. And why the Loki and Thor exist at all.

R.

The troops already have drop capabilities iirc, the tank can be dropped from the sky, if the AG works , if not well its heavier than dropping an apc on someone . But probably the AG would be used as a faster means of deploying the heavy guns, and the tank is pure military grade. The APC I could see being used for non military use (police, security forces, and emergency respose) so no AG there.

Actually, Mark just explained on FB that the APC uses a full IC engine, and weighs about 4 times as much as the StuG does. The StuG uses a capacitance battery for power, which it can recharge off of the APC's Iron Core engine. The APC actually has slightly more armor than the StuG!

The AG in use by the Humans may only be a low level repulsor type technology instead of full anti-gravity, requiring less power and providing much less lift than a full AG suite.

Indeed: here are some rambling thoughts that may help with how I see these working.

This is my take on how the floating StuG works; It uses the same technology that is found in the ‘not hydraulics’ of the Leviathans (TR Bands) these are essentially pull push force generators encased in a tube to help direct the force. Far faster than a liquid system and far stronger, an overloaded reactor scan stiffen a Leviathan and tear it apart by supplying too much energy to the field generators.

The shield on the Crusader uses a field generator to supply a cone of push, the closer you are to the shield, the more concentrated and the stronger the force. The shield is used to slow incoming projectiles and deflect slow moving projectiles as well as pushing back lighter targets or assisting in buffeting away larger ones.

The StuG uses the same technology to provide lift, when it is low to the ground the cone for each TR band is more concentrated but less power is supplied to the banks of repulsors. In low flight the 40 or so TR bands act as invisible legs, alternating power and direction to provide a firm push from the surface and make micro movements possible as well as stabilization for firing the main gun. The normal operation height is 1 to 1.5 meters, this provides the vehicle a stable/firm/stiff platform and would indeed crush anyone under the vehicle.

The vehicle is capable of short hops as seen in the render, the TR bands are overcharged and it provides a cone of force that diminishes and widens the higher the vehicle moves from a surface, essentially distributing the weight over a vastly larger area. Someone under a StuG at full lift would feel the force, possibly by knocked over/down but not be crushed by it, those on the edge of the field would be pushed away from its center, knocked aside. At full lift the tank can get about 4 to 5 meter hops, it would be incapable of firing its gun as the lift no longer has firm stability, relying on the six small jets on the rear of the StuG for propulsion. The ride at this height is soft and not very responsive, this is why the StuG is banking, to gain a push surface from the debris and building.

Running the field at full strength uses a LOT of energy, the StuG does not have a reactor, it is simply too small to house one and upsizing an armored vehicle for a reactor adds too much weight, making the propulsion system impossible with Eisenkern technology. The StuG can operate for about two to three days on its capacitors before needing a recharge. If it spent its time at full vertical thrust, it would likely destroy the TR bands and the operational time would be more like several hours.

Its size and relatively thin armor make it an ideal candidate for a grav like assist, much larger and a vehicle would suffer from failures and limited operational times. It was made for the role of supporting the Valkir and has a similar recharge requirement as the Valkir power armor.

A Leviathan can be used as a recharge point but that is done only when the APC is not present as it is a huge target while standing around acting as a service station and it is also far too expensive a piece of equipment to tie up in this function.


For the Eisenkern, the APC is the center of their ground based military. Four hundred year of conflict with the Shadokesh has left its mark on the equipment and tactics. People, soldiers and citizens are the most important asset. The death toll is in the billions and the Eisenkern are slowly dying off as a people due to attrition. They find themselves more often in a defensive role, evacuating cities or protecting population hubs as the Shadokesh have a ‘burnt earth’ policy in regards to biological infestations.

The APC and its variants, are not just troop carriers but logistics and supply and recharge points for lighter vehicles and power armor, all the way down to the lowly Stormtrooper and their augmented armor. The APC is more heavily armored than the StuG, their importance on the field is reflective of this. No APC=No power, no supplies, no logistics and no rescue stations for trapped citizens.

Once again, great information Mark.

I hope Robey is able to incorporate some of this new information into the first draft of the rules, but I think he will probably be putting it in at a later date. That's what revisions are for in document iterations

I know you're very busy with the design/production side of things, but having your "Fluff/Universe design" and thoughts on technology and it's implementation laid out for Robey and any helpers of his will probably make his job a bit easier.
It may not seem like it, but having a clear idea of how technology is implemented can certainly help to fit things into the rules and army composition.

Knowing that the APC is central to the deployment strategies of the Eisenkern forces will help to implement both rules for it, and force org choices for Stormtrooper deployments.

I love the feel of the IC universe that you are fleshing out. Keep up the good work!

 precinctomega wrote:
Great. So now I have to come up with rules for floating tanks? Thanks, Mark.

[It's not like he showed me draft renders almost a year ago or anything, and I forgot.]

R.

Striker II by GDW and Fire, Fusion, & Steel.... Design it, fight it, wonder where you went wrong as you head back to the drawing board....

Striker II used to be my go to SF ground combat game.

And Fire, Fusion, & Steel can also be used with Traveller: the New Era RPG, Brilliant Lances starship combat, and Battle Rider for fleet actions.

Fire, Fusion, & Steel is freakin' brilliant! (And Striker II isn't bad, either.)

GDW is long gone, but the PDFs remain.

The Auld Grump

 warboss wrote:
Indeed. I suspect it'll be a few years before they hit the shelves given the time between the infantry previews/KS debut and the fact that half of them still haven't made it out.

I am not as pessimistic, yes the KS has ungodly delays, but do you realize when stage 3 is complete (4 more kits) there will be 30 kits on the market. Yes, it will take some time but releasing straight to retail will resolve some of the feelings about never ending waits between releases.

Mark,

Are there other kits in the works that aren't on the list? Hate to pry but since there are pictures of the tank out there, and you mentioned buildings a while ago and have been quiet since, makes me wonder if there's something else that might be in the works .

He mentioned awhile back a light walker for the Eisenkern is planned.
I presume the Stug is the medium tank he has mentioned before, as well.

 NoseGoblin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Indeed. I suspect it'll be a few years before they hit the shelves given the time between the infantry previews/KS debut and the fact that half of them still haven't made it out.

I am not as pessimistic, yes the KS has ungodly delays, but do you realize when stage 3 is complete (4 more kits) there will be 30 kits on the market. Yes, it will take some time but releasing straight to retail will resolve some of the feelings about never ending waits between releases.

I'm not trying to be an ass here Mark, just ignorant, but won't the lead time for new kits be just as long? I mean, unless you have low-hanging money fruit on the trees in your backyard, you still have to fund new kits to be tooled and produced and you're still very much a one-man operation. Personally, I'm a big fan of your work but unless you're able to expand your operations and reach somehow, I don't see you doing more than a kit a year or so and still able to pay yourself something for your trouble.

Indeed, lots of things on the plate.

Buildings are the first after the KS completion, even if the Shadokesh are not yet available it will allow for combat between Eisenkern households in "Bad War" a term describing the Swiss Reisläufer and German Landsknecht fighting against each other as mercenaries for apposing sides. It would also allow you to use your Leviathans, which need tall cover in order to play an enjoyable game.

Then the Shadsokesh core infantry.

Then off to a Shadokesh walker or the StuG or light walker or another Shadokesh infantry such as the Ferals.... and onwards from there to fill out the Shadokesh and smaller releases for the Eisenkern such as an accessory set for the Valkir.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agnosto wrote:

 NoseGoblin wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Indeed. I suspect it'll be a few years before they hit the shelves given the time between the infantry previews/KS debut and the fact that half of them still haven't made it out.

I am not as pessimistic, yes the KS has ungodly delays, but do you realize when stage 3 is complete (4 more kits) there will be 30 kits on the market. Yes, it will take some time but releasing straight to retail will resolve some of the feelings about never ending waits between releases.

I'm not trying to be an ass here Mark, just ignorant, but won't the lead time for new kits be just as long? I mean, unless you have low-hanging money fruit on the trees in your backyard, you still have to fund new kits to be tooled and produced and you're still very much a one-man operation. Personally, I'm a big fan of your work but unless you're able to expand your operations and reach somehow, I don't see you doing more than a kit a year or so and still able to pay yourself something for your trouble.

The nature of my agreement with WGF allows me more freedom to release kits without needing to necessarily go to KS. As long as it makes financial sense for both parties, there are ways of having releases that are not pre-funded.

The building sprues are still a thing? Very cool. I'll keep some space available in my scenery boxes, then.

Lets hope things work out so that you can get those kits out on the market.

The current kits are awesome and provide some great sci-fi infantry for gamers to use for multiple games.

Hopefully Robey and you can get a rule set out to the masses soon so that the IC universe can get fleshed out on the tabletop.