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 Enigwolf wrote:
Anyone given thoughts as to the Bombardment Cube?

It'll be a gimicky cube of dice.

Transparent scatter die with 2d6 of different colors inside.

You know what I noticed first with the terrain? no dead cadians. they won't fit the aesthetic of of the wall o' dead cadians very well, and look that much better for it.

If they're useable in normal games, I might get the redoubt for my Krieg, as I can't stand the dead cadians of the normal line.

shade1313 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Jackmojo wrote:
My only issue with the Khorne machine is it not being called a Deathdealer when that is so clearly what it is...

Because...it's a Lord of Battle, not a deathdealer?

Yep, gun moved from mouth to belly, other than that, it clearly is more LoB than DD.

Should be easy as pie to convert to a DD, for those that must have that instead, though.

I'm just going to let it sit on the shelves and worry more about converting Helturkeys into Doomwings.

From th sound of it, the two designs have merged, with the Lord of Battles and Deathdealer being different weapon loadouts.

MajorWesJanson wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Jackmojo wrote:
My only issue with the Khorne machine is it not being called a Deathdealer when that is so clearly what it is...

Because...it's a Lord of Battle, not a deathdealer?

Yep, gun moved from mouth to belly, other than that, it clearly is more LoB than DD.

Should be easy as pie to convert to a DD, for those that must have that instead, though.

I'm just going to let it sit on the shelves and worry more about converting Helturkeys into Doomwings.

From th sound of it, the two designs have merged, with the Lord of Battles and Deathdealer being different weapon loadouts.

Could we possibly be having... *gasp* two kits in one box?!

 Enigwolf wrote:
Could we possibly be having... *gasp* two kits in one box?!

You mean like the Necron kit? Don't be daft.

Am I missing something? Why is the baneblade $140, we already have kit that's good enough. Those other prices are ridiculous.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Enigwolf wrote:

MajorWesJanson wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Jackmojo wrote:
My only issue with the Khorne machine is it not being called a Deathdealer when that is so clearly what it is...

Because...it's a Lord of Battle, not a deathdealer?

Yep, gun moved from mouth to belly, other than that, it clearly is more LoB than DD.

Should be easy as pie to convert to a DD, for those that must have that instead, though.

I'm just going to let it sit on the shelves and worry more about converting Helturkeys into Doomwings.

From th sound of it, the two designs have merged, with the Lord of Battles and Deathdealer being different weapon loadouts.

Could we possibly be having... *gasp* two kits in one box?!

I shudder to think that GW would give us more bang for our buck.

Breotan wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
Could we possibly be having... *gasp* two kits in one box?!

You mean like the Necron kit? Don't be daft.

It's called sarcasm.

Spartan089 wrote:Am I missing something? Why is the baneblade $140, we already have kit that's good enough. Those other prices are ridiculous.

Because GW wants more monies, so they repackage the Baneblade and release it at a higher price?

So don't buy it.

That's the easy response, isn't it? My question would then be at what price point would even the most dedicated fan have some sort of criticism of the more rapid than ever now monthly increasing price points?

GW fans don't get more dedicated than I am, I have thousands of models accumulated over more than 2 decades. I have multiple Baneblades and other larger models and some Forge World stuff too.

I would like to see GW remain healthy and in business a long time. I see what the higher price points are doing to volume of sales at my local GW shop and it's alarming. I have friends who are ex-GW employees and huge fans who are buying less GW stuff (or none at all) due to the turn they've taken the past couple years. GW price increases did not used to take such huge leaps all at once. Every customer at some point will become concerned because even if they can still afford the prices if many other customers no longer can the hobby and GW will die.

As expensive as GW kits are, I usually think they are worth the money. However, $140 for a Baneblade, regardless the options, is a bit steep. Ditto the $160 Khorne thing. Terrain is really cool not sure about the shiny paint job. I am glad it's not littered with Cadian corpses. I don't get that. Why would IG pile dead IG around there own lines? Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

The terrain looks awesome but they're very determined on waging an apocalypse on your wallet.

Im not to discouraged by the pricing. We are talking about apocalypse units at still cheaper then forge world prices. Most players will look to add just one to their army, while a few add two to three.

Baneblade and Shadowsword in one kit is a good deal. We play a lot of apoc in houston and i rarely see any other variant. I did suspect a few months ago before i left the company, annual price rises would disappear and would be added sneakingly with each new release. Kirby is set to retire real soon, gotta drive the shares up so he can cash in 4.3 million shares

JAO249 wrote:
Im not to discouraged by the pricing. We are talking about apocalypse units at still cheaper then forge world prices.

And still not worth over inflated plastic/resin prices. Bumping up the cost of Baneblade by over $50 for an extra sprue is crazy- at the end of it you still only make one tank.

 Moopy wrote:

JAO249 wrote:
Im not to discouraged by the pricing. We are talking about apocalypse units at still cheaper then forge world prices.

And still not worth over inflated plastic/resin prices. Bumping up the cost of Baneblade by over $50 for an extra sprue is crazy- at the end of it you still only make one tank.

I'm sure clever builders will figure out how to make the top hull replaceable so you can make all 3.

 Moopy wrote:

JAO249 wrote:
Im not to discouraged by the pricing. We are talking about apocalypse units at still cheaper then forge world prices.

And still not worth over inflated plastic/resin prices. Bumping up the cost of Baneblade by over $50 for an extra sprue is crazy- at the end of it you still only make one tank.

It's going up $25, not $50.... and you're actually getting something useful extra for that unlike the last time it went up $15. I'm all for ripping GW a new one for meritless out of scale price inflation (see my sig) but that isn't the case this time with the baneblade.

 Moopy wrote:

JAO249 wrote:
Im not to discouraged by the pricing. We are talking about apocalypse units at still cheaper then forge world prices.

And still not worth over inflated plastic/resin prices. Bumping up the cost of Baneblade by over $50 for an extra sprue is crazy- at the end of it you still only make one tank.

Well, with the Baneblade the way it is, if you don't glue in the superstructure, you should theoretically be able to swap out between a baneblade/shadowsword variant at will. I can't see them re-tooling the molds to prevent that, wouldn't be worth the expense. That being said, the considerable price increase they justify by saying the kit can make multiple units is indeed hollow; you still only get one of the thing, and additional plastic costs hardly anything.

You know, if Bandai can release a 1/48 scale Gundam ( that puts it at around 15" tall!) that is snap fit, fully articulated, pre-colored, and comes with a full armament AND they can get it to me for under $70, then why can't GW release a tank that's the size of a 1/35 tank for under $100?

Because people will pay it. And they know that discount retailers can afford to take a 20-30% discount.

 Barzam wrote:
You know, if Bandai can release a 1/48 scale Gundam ( that puts it at around 15" tall!) that is snap fit, fully articulated, pre-colored, and comes with a full armament AND they can get it to me for under $70, then why can't GW release a tank that's the size of a 1/35 tank for under $100?

It's not really a matter of whether they can. They could set their prices lower. They choose not to.

 Barzam wrote:
You know, if Bandai can release a 1/48 scale Gundam ( that puts it at around 15" tall!) that is snap fit, fully articulated, pre-colored, and comes with a full armament AND they can get it to me for under $70, then why can't GW release a tank that's the size of a 1/35 tank for under $100?

Not EVEN 70!

I can get a 1/48 Gundam AGE-1 for under 3000 yen, including shipping. Maybe I will at that price.

Amazon JP's got the other models for about 5000 each, give or take a few yen.

Those bastards are BIG too. Box is MASSIVE. Hell, even the 1/60 kits were big as it was back in the day.

My guess is market penetration? I can go to just about any store with a decent hobby supply section, and I'll find one of those Mega Models. Two stores I was at today had the Zakus for sure. Didn't check the price there. Point is, Gundam is a big money maker for Bandai, and you know it's EVERYWHERE over here. Not the same can be said for 40k stuff, either here, in the UK, or in the States. It's way more niche than Gundam, which is why you don't see cheaper injection molded plastic kits.

That's neither here nor there really, but I just wanted to post that. Don't get to talk much Gundam on Dakka.

I'm actually kind of surprised that nobody in Japan has really tried doing there hand at sci fi tanks. Other model companies will dabble with spaceships/ fightercraft, but never really tanks. I can remember some old Aoshima ones from when I was a kid, but that's about it.

Totally off topic, but there used to be a few GITS tanks as models way WAY back when it was first released and the hype for it was at its peek.

Back on topic

I am a bit saddened to see no 'Nids.

Different businesses operating on different business models. Bandai has a wider reach and multiple sources of revenue in the various toy lines it has. GW is a small time game company in comparison whose business model revolves around keeping their brick and mortar stores open no matter how much it seems to cost them.

Additionally considering that Bandai is selling across a lot wider range of big name stores than GW, which in turn generates a constant stream of steady income for the company, versus GW who works on moving a much lower volume of product this is a lot like comparing apples and bananas. Sure they're both fruit (toy companies), but they start losing similarities there.

For GW to lower price they need a way to increase their number of sales to compensate so they don't tank. This would also require more production than they are capable of (less so since Memphis' casting department was shut down, something that's likely hurting GW right now because one casting group is trying to handle all the demand). GW just can't handle that kind of change without a massive overhaul of how they operate, something that would likely take them a few years (or a massive crowdfunding campaign, but let's be honest, the internet seems to despise GW's every move these days so it's safe to say it'd likely fail if they tried) to pull off without putting them into the red now.

It's frankly not reasonable to insist that GW do an immediate 180* and just stop charging so much for their products right now. That said, it's not unreasonable to say that they prices on products really need to stop creeping up so much. They make (at least in my opinion) some cool and interesting stuff (even if it's not all a hit), and as much as I dislike the executive side of the company who keeps putting their pants on the heads all the time, the creative side seems to work very hard (especially with the current release schedule. I know someone who works in Finecast casting who was worked to the bone trying to play catch up after the Tau incident occurred) and loves what their doing, even if we don't always agree with their visions of what 40k is.

Will the prices stop rising? When GW finds they can't counter the drop in sales from the price increases by raising prices it'll have to stop going that way or GW will find itself pretty well screwed. When will that be? Well if they keep sticking to only raising prices when they do updates/reboxes of things probably 2020 or later. If they bring back the big price hike and keep doing that, probably sooner.

EDIT: More related to the topic I rather dig some of the new Apoc stuff. I rather hope the new C'Tan model is available outside the apoc kit just so we have a 3rd C'Tan variant on the table (though I'm sure many Necron players may end up getting the Tessaract Vault anyways).

My only hope is that my Sisters army gets access to some actual army specific strategems and formations in the book this time. It was rather lame to just go only get to pick the generic Imperium ones instead.

The Khorne Guy has grown on me. It looks like a real bruiser.

The Necron stuff to me looks really weird. Not sure if I like it or not.

The terrain to me I'm not fussed with. I prefer to make my own.

Hm, I suppose the comparison to Bandai doesn't quite work. Volks would've been better. They're a garage kit company that mostly specializes in high-end resin kits. Like GW, their products are very niche, expensive, and like GW, the have limited production capability and run small brick and mortar stores. I would say Volks probably hits a much smaller audience than GW does and their product is pretty much not sold outside of their stores or website. However, Volks produces a line of roughly 1/100 scale Five Star Stories kits that again, are fully articulated, insanely intricate, and are produced in fully pre-colored plastic. These kits are actually cheaper than GW's Apoc models. Here, I'll link to one and you can see for yourself.

http://www.volks.co.jp/fss/ims003/

Again, this company probably has about the same size audience as GW if not smaller and their products are just as hard to find, if not harder. They have low production runs and limited production capabilities, yet they're able to produce a far superior quality product at a much cheaper price. The Baneblade is literally double the price of the kit I just linked. And yet the model I linked to is more complex, more detailed, I don't need to paint it, and it's fully poseable to boot. So the argument that GW has to continually raise their prices really doesn't fly.

You know what? I want Volks to make me some tanks for wargaming. I bet they'd be gorgeous.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Moopy wrote:

JAO249 wrote:
Im not to discouraged by the pricing. We are talking about apocalypse units at still cheaper then forge world prices.

And still not worth over inflated plastic/resin prices. Bumping up the cost of Baneblade by over $50 for an extra sprue is crazy- at the end of it you still only make one tank.

I'm sure clever builders will figure out how to make the top hull replaceable so you can make all 3.

I vaguely remember this already being done.

 Barzam wrote:
Hm, I suppose the comparison to Bandai doesn't quite work. Volks would've been better. They're a garage kit company that mostly specializes in high-end resin kits. Like GW, their products are very niche, expensive, and like GW, the have limited production capability and run small brick and mortar stores. I would say Volks probably hits a much smaller audience than GW does and their product is pretty much not sold outside of their stores or website. However, Volks produces a line of roughly 1/100 scale Five Star Stories kits that again, are fully articulated, insanely intricate, and are produced in fully pre-colored plastic. These kits are actually cheaper than GW's Apoc models. Here, I'll link to one and you can see for yourself.

http://www.volks.co.jp/fss/ims003/

Again, this company probably has about the same size audience as GW if not smaller and their products are just as hard to find, if not harder. They have low production runs and limited production capabilities, yet they're able to produce a far superior quality product at a much cheaper price. The Baneblade is literally double the price of the kit I just linked. And yet the model I linked to is more complex, more detailed, I don't need to paint it, and it's fully poseable to boot. So the argument that GW has to continually raise their prices really doesn't fly.

You know what? I want Volks to make me some tanks for wargaming. I bet they'd be gorgeous.

Still a poor comparison. GW crams a crapton of detail into those models at the 28mm level. The amount of plastic isn't just what drives the cost, but also the cost to design the models, and then test (e.g. heat tolerances, stress tolerances, etc.) of the mould shape/pattern. GW also produces their models in the UK, which has a base higher cost of production, and this gets translated back to us. Having something fully pre-colored plastic isn't a big deal either. Again, size doesn't matter when you're comparing models.

They charge what people will pay.

I'll most likely buy the rulebook, since I have been longing for an updated apoc book for over a year, but I definately won
t buy any of the new kits. Terrain doesn't interest me at all, since I don't have room for it and therefore would have to donate it for my gaming club anyway.
The crazy thing about this release, is that GW are beginning to make FW's prices look downright reasonable in comparison. The only model sales they are making me interested in is buying a Baneblade for my IG or a Stompa for my Orks before the price go up (if it goes up on the Stompa). Otherwise I'll probably just stick to buying FW super heavies, as many of their tanks will be downright cheaper.

 Enigwolf wrote:
Still a poor comparison. GW crams a crapton of detail into those models at the 28mm level. The amount of plastic isn't just what drives the cost, but also the cost to design the models, and then test (e.g. heat tolerances, stress tolerances, etc.) of the mould shape/pattern. GW also produces their models in the UK, which has a base higher cost of production, and this gets translated back to us.

I fail to see how any of what you wrote doesn't apply to the example posted. Do you think the Volks models design themselves? Are you sure production costs are cheaper in Japan?

Regardless of any comparison, you'd have to be insane to suggest that the price of GW kits is driven by production costs. Were they selling below cost before they ramped up prices on the likes of baneblades or dire avengers? No. They charge what a dwindling amount of people will pay.

 Temujin wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:
Still a poor comparison. GW crams a crapton of detail into those models at the 28mm level. The amount of plastic isn't just what drives the cost, but also the cost to design the models, and then test (e.g. heat tolerances, stress tolerances, etc.) of the mould shape/pattern. GW also produces their models in the UK, which has a base higher cost of production, and this gets translated back to us.

I fail to see how any of what you wrote doesn't apply to the example posted. Do you think the Volks models design themselves? Are you sure production costs are cheaper in Japan?

Regardless of any comparison, you'd have to be insane to suggest that the price of GW kits is driven by production costs. Were they selling below cost before they ramped up prices on the likes of baneblades or dire avengers? No. They charge what a dwindling amount of people will pay.

Look at the Volk models. They lack a lot of the finer, small details that GW's 28mm miniatures have. The casting of these small details are subject to thermal tolerances that requires the technology (and subsequent ability to spend) that GW has. This in part drives the reason why GW products are of a higher price to you. Look at their financials for costs - it's not as if GW is turning trillions of dollars of profit off of their models, their own costs are pretty steep. Not to mention that as a large listed company, there are other services and departments within that do not generate revenue in of themselves (Accounting, Operations, to say the least) which have to have their costs covered by their revenues. As the company grows larger, these auxiliary services' costs increase, and so while your costs increase with revenues, your back end services' costs increase and as a result, you have a higher increase in costs than revenue. This translates to the need to increase prices in order to draw in more revenues to cover support departments' costs.

A short way of putting it is this: You cannot compare a small boutique company that probably casts on-demand to a large MNC like GW.

That being said, I don't disagree that GW does, to an extent, charge what their customers are willing to pay. This is the nature of the elasticity of the market combined with the indifference curve of the point it'll take for GW's customers to switch to their competitors. How many times have people whined about price hikes, and then still go out to buy a new army when a 'dex gets released? And hey, guess what? Every company does this to make the most money that they can. The point it will come to is when GW's marginal profits will start dropping.