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 Panic wrote:
yeah,
The collectors edition of Apocalypse gives you early acces to the second warzone Pandorax.

- Two Warzone compendiums containing background and additional formations for the wars of Armageddon and Pandorax. Both Warzones are styled as Imperial dossiers, of the sort you may find on a General's desk, and Pandorax is only currently available in this Collector's Edition.

Panic...

Thanks. missed that.

shade1313 wrote:

andrewm9 wrote:

shade1313 wrote:

andrewm9 wrote:

shade1313 wrote:
The biggest problem with the way that FW releases these big (expensive) supplements is that, as time goes on and codices get redone, more and more units get outdated and in need of revision, and they don't have a particularly good way to keep up with them short of waiting a bit and releasing another big (expensive) book to update those units, just in time for the OTHER units in the book to have their parent codices redone, setting up for the next cycle of problems.

Considering that a new codex is 50 dollars US plus tax, it doesn't seem so bad. Current rate on say Imperial Armour 1 2nd edition puts it at about 82 dollars.if you a few friends can go in a FW order together you can save the shipping. It's not so bad really.

But it IS really, really annoying when a new codex comes along and it takes a goodly amount of time to update units, or even worse, whole army lists.

Furthermore FW actually does updates in between publications to date lists via PDF, which they do for free.

Like the Elysians, who got updated via a PDF...oh, wait, no, they got their update with Taros 2.0, along with Tau.

I'm sure the Eldar updates will be along any second now.

Any second.

Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?

I always assumed it was the opposite: IA3 was all about the Tau and the Elysian list was thrown in as a "bonus".

I'm not remotely complaining that there's a Taros V2.0, nor that they charge for it. I'll be buying it myself at some point. However, how long did they go on, assuring all and sundry who contacted them about Elysian updates to go with the IG codex update FOUR YEARS ago, that they were working on a PDF update on it?

They never once said that they were releasing a PDF update, only that they were updating it. I know because I contacted them about it, and even asked if it was going to be in PDF form or not a few years back - they mentioned it was unconfirmed at the time.

 Enigwolf wrote:

Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?

Codex: Black Templars is from 2005 and "current".

 Billagio wrote:
Man, I just bought a stompa off ebay. I hope that its not gimped because its getting a huge points increase or is not very durable :(

Nah they won't nerd stompers!everybody knows the smaller titans are the better ones like war hounds or feral titans. They are far more cost effective! Plus the stompers death Kannon and super gatler are CRAZY good.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?

Codex: Black Templars is from 2005 and "current".

All I'm stating is that Codices in general get refreshed faster than that, and when they do, we pay for them. Not that there aren't any old Codices (SoB comes to mind, too). Therefore, I don't understand why people complain that we need to pay for a refreshed Elysian and Tau list in IA3E2.

 Enigwolf wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Enigwolf wrote:

Have you considered how old the original Taros Campaign book is? What, 2005? That's 8 years. Codices get refreshed faster than that. The changes in IA3E2 were aplenty rules-wise, and there was no possible way for this to have been simply a PDF update. The entire Elysian list was refreshed and completely updated, and all Tau models and the rules for them were also included as a bonus. As an Elysian player, I'm not complaining that I had to buy a new book. You don't see people calling for Codices to be updated by PDF, do you?

Codex: Black Templars is from 2005 and "current".

All I'm stating is that Codices in general get refreshed faster than that, and when they do, we pay for them. Not that there aren't any old Codices (SoB comes to mind, too). Therefore, I don't understand why people complain that we need to pay for a refreshed Elysian and Tau list in IA3E2.

You really don't understand, because as I've already made clear, I'm not complaining about paying for IA3E2. I'm complaining that the format of the IA:A books, of having a few units for everyone, inevitably leads to entries going out of date with every codex release. The core Apoc books have the same issue. Do I have a better idea that'll work for GW, and FW? Not really. It's just annoying.

That's the big problem with FW books, they are so far behind and often are outdated faster then they release them, if anything FW should just have pay for PDFs on their website or something, because their book format is way to far behind. Make Campaign books with scenarios and special gear, but the rest can easily be on the website.

 Zweischneid wrote:
It seems Apoc is getting its own range of supplements called War Zones

War Zones are self-contained supplements for Warhammer 40,000: Apocalypse and they detail some of the most famous campaigns of the 41st Millennium. This section provides you with the necessary formations you need to relive these epic moments.

http://pinsofwar.com/war-zones-supplements-for-warhammer-40k-apocalypse/

I'm getting a malicious something or other warning off of a png file at that link with Avast virus protection. Just an FYI warning...

 warboss wrote:


I'm getting a malicious something or other warning off of a png file at that link with Avast virus protection. Just an FYI warning...

Thanks.

I'll see if I can clear that up.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 warboss wrote:


I'm getting a malicious something or other warning off of a png file at that link with Avast virus protection. Just an FYI warning...

Thanks.

I'll see if I can clear that up.

also is it possible to re-enable the ability to make 'guest' posts like you used to be able to do, now you seem to have to sign up to a Discus (spelling) to do so and I really don't want to (just too many random accounts already)

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:


also is it possible to re-enable the ability to make 'guest' posts like you used to be able to do, now you seem to have to sign up to a Discus (spelling) to do so and I really don't want to (just too many random accounts already)

Don't think it is disabled. I just tested it, and the guest-comment function seems to work fine..

Also, there's a semi-official Dakka-thread for my site (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/462242.page#4846013) so as not to derail this one.

I did some playtesting with the Khorne Mower on vassal. There is no way it is worth 888+ points. For the same price, you can get 5 Soulgrinders with the Mark of Nurgle (shroud). The grinders will rip that thing apart in assault.

With the stats it has, I would pay no more than 600 points. It's overcosted like most super heavies. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but the Khorne mower isn't one of them even when supported with the Grimoire.

dlight wrote:
I did some playtesting with the Khorne Mower on vassal. There is no way it is worth 888+ points. For the same price, you can get 5 Soulgrinders with the Mark of Nurgle (shroud). The grinders will rip that thing apart in assault.

With the stats it has, I would pay no more than 600 points. It's overcosted like most super heavies. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but the Khorne mower isn't one of them even when supported with the Grimoire.

Interesting that people are testing it out on vassal already, but I assume that's using current apoc rules and not the rumoured new ones where its D weapon CC attacks are even better and it's immune to stunned/shaken/immobilised/weapon destroyed. At least according to this: http://apocalypse40k.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/apocalypse-q-part-i.html

I'm sure I've seen that chap posting on here before so all credit to him etc etc.

Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.

Yeah, Structure points should be immune to glances. And only D weapons should be able to 'instant-death' a super heavy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.

Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.

And that's the other thing. As I've said before, people have an irrational fear of Super Heavies, so much so that they concentrate on them so that their already fragile nature is magnified even further.

i wonder what will be the warhammer 40k rules and points for the vengeance batteries. I didn't miss anything about this in the thread have i ?

I think the problem is that people don't bring enough super heavies to a fight. If you play an Apocalypse game with only one Baneblade, then of course the Baneblade will dominate and will seem overpowered in comparison to codex units (and, in my opinion, the Baneblade is one of the least scary super heavies). But if you've got enough super heavies to be slinging the 7" and 10" pie plates around, or to start popping other super heavies with the D weapons, then that's where the fun begins. The more super heavies you've got in the game, the less scary they become.

Anyway, maybe they've done something to balance out how easy it might be to glance a super heavy to death. Maybe a 4+ save against glancing hits?

Hmmm, those rules are kinda interesting. I like them! I like how they ignore shaken/stunned and all that. D weps seem kinda strong, but I only have 1 Str D wep currently, and thats the CCW wep on my stompa so It wont come into play as much. Id like to see some kind of save against glances for SHV. If a 6 makes you lose D3 hull points, super heavys are going to be blowing up left and right now, unless they ignore +1/2 to the armor pen tables from ap 1 and such.

The problem with superheavies is that things like fire dragons exist. Its no big deal in standard 40k, where each turn that squad can at best only destroy a single vehicle of roughly equivalent points... but in apoc, that say... 180 point unit of firedragons is easily able to destroy a 800 pt superheavy in one go.

and if you let that squad of fire dragons get close unmolested it's your own fault for losing the super heavy Same as any other game of 40k

Orktavius wrote:
and if you let that squad of fire dragons get close unmolested it's your own fault for losing the super heavy Same as any other game of 40k

Two words: Flank March.
Although interceptor alleviates some of that worry.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.

Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.

That is the Nurgle Plague Tower. It is one of the few super heavies that are worth it. Especially with an L3 Herald of Tzeentch inside using divination.

Khorne mower = not worth it. It is an awesome looking model, but there are far better ways to spend those points. Even if it is immune to shaken, stun, immobile, and weapon destroyed.

Tzeentch... helping... Nurgle.

Uhh!

I like the new damage system actually. Simple, quick, and it keeps them fighting 'till their dead.

dlight wrote:

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah but if HP on Super-Heavies function like regular HP's (and there's no reason to assume they don't), then these things are just as fragile if not moreso than they were before (9 glances and dead!). They're worth around the 350-450 mark, not 500+.

Yeah I'll concede that point, I come at it from a warped perspective as the only superheavy I've regularly played with is 700 points for 18HP's. Though even with that fragility in mind my group still has superheavy phobia and severely limits what we can bring to a game.

That is the Nurgle Plague Tower. It is one of the few super heavies that are worth it. Especially with an L3 Herald of Tzeentch inside using divination.

Khorne mower = not worth it. It is an awesome looking model, but there are far better ways to spend those points. Even if it is immune to shaken, stun, immobile, and weapon destroyed.

The problem I've had since the 6th update is how easy it is to stun and shake passengers in superheavies with the amount of fire they tend to attract, used to use the 10 fire points on the tower to make it a bit of a gunboat, then again if these rumours of stun and shake immunity pan out then it will indeed be one of the good ones again, assuming everyone is happy with using older datasheets in new apoc. Not had an apoc game since the daemons update, sounds horrid but I tend to stuff it with nurgle marked units that don't get hurt if it pops.